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For the record, here's Buck O'Neil's take. If I was able to sit down and have a conversation with any former player or manager, living or deceased, I would probably choose this gentleman.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7zYopq-dFs Last edited by Gobucsmagic74; 05-11-2015 at 07:06 PM. |
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Cobb was a racist. He was ruthless. He was also a brilliant ballplayer. Those things are not mutually exclusive. Let me amend this post to say this: I truly, truly hope that what Leerhsen says is correct. I am a massive Giants' fan, but I could never collect Alvin Dark baseball cards after hearing so many stories of his racism. Years later, someone pointed to an obituary in the San Francisco Chronicle about Dark. It contained quotes by Alou and Cepeda about how Dark had asked for forgiveness for his words and behavior in his later days. While not absolving the individual of racist acts, the idea of contrition is a powerful one. I'll try to follow the example of Buck O'Neill in life... and hope that the truth about Cobb wins out. History should never be whitewashed, but it should contain the whole unvarnished record.
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Another interview. I'm not seeking these out, the author so happens to be appearing on the programs I frequent.
http://onlyagame.wbur.org/2015/05/16...arles-leerhsen
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These are the Ty Cobb stories I have heard. Are all of these not true? They are all pretty damaging:
Edited to add: Riley Cooper is known as a racist because he said n****** once (or twice?) after a game. Ty Cobb has done that. Ron Artest is known as a violent animal because he climbed into the stands to beat up a heckler. Ty Cobb has done that. Ray Rice is known as a woman beater because he punched his girlfriend. Ty Cobb has also done that! Could you imagine an athlete more racist than Riley Cooper, as violent as Ron Artest and has the same regard for women as Ray Rice? Sounds like a pleasant fellow Last edited by jhs5120; 05-16-2015 at 10:25 AM. |
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/themessage94/ Always up for a trade. If you have a Blue Weiser Wonder WaJo, PM/Email Me! |
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/calvindog/sets |
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Not to say that Cobb wasn't wealthy but at the times of doing what he did fighting (with fans) was common and not like it was EVER in the NBgay. Hitting women (though not saying he get's a pass) was quite common and a hell of a lot less looked down upon then.
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So you're not saying he didn't do these things, but that they were socially acceptable. I get it. Back then it was socially acceptable to try to murder a man for intervening in your berating racist rant of another man? Last edited by jhs5120; 05-31-2015 at 01:16 PM. |
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Well said, Jeff. What has to be realized here is that 40 years after the Civil War ended....it really didn't end in many American's minds. Circa 1905 - 1908, when the careers of guys like Cobb and Joe Jackson started, there were very few BB players from the "deep South". And, it wasn't easy at the beginning for them to fit in. Hey guys....after reading all these books on Cobb that have been written by guys who have an "agenda", try reading TY AND THE BABE. Tom Stanton provides a fair and very interesting take on Cobb (especially Cobb's rivalry with the Babe....when Ruth pitched for Boston). I'll not reveal anymore, but it's a great story on these two legends of Baseball, during their playing years and after. The Appendix is about Ty Cobb versus Babe Ruth, Game by Game. It's fascinating to read the details of approx. 200 games that Cobb and Ruth played in from May 11, 1915 > Sept 11, 1927. TED Z . Last edited by tedzan; 05-31-2015 at 06:25 PM. Reason: Correct typo. |
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Davy Jones offers interesting insights, would like to know more about his take on Cobb
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Tim Hornbaker has written a biography of Cobb that has also just been released. His book, which features extensive footnotes and sourcing, concludes that Cobb was racist. Not so much in the KKK mold but in the "I'm white and you should act with deference to me at all times." mold. I asked Tim about this other new book and he told me he doesn't understand how anyone could draw the "not a racist" conclusion.
Hornbaker's book, btw, is fantastic. FWIW, he agrees that Cobb was not a dirty player. |
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