PSA 4 Grading

[Tere1071]

I saw what looked like a nice PSA 4 53 Bowman color Berra on eBay. It was better than my current one and I purchased it. When I opened the package this morning at first glance it looked clean, but in the light I saw several paper wrinkles in the upper left corner. I'm annoyed at the seller for not revealing that in his description, but also with PSA for giving it that grade. Apart from the criticism directed at PSA for many "sins," am I wrong to assume that a PSA 4 would have that amount of wrinkles.
berra1.jpg

berra2.jpg

[mintacular]

I think you should have expected an issue like that with a 4. Usually with the lower grade cards that look better in the slab there is an actual reason for that grade. That reason doesn't always appear in the scan. I don't think the seller is responsible for further pointing out flaws in a slabbed card....., Unless asked directly.... This is also another reason buying in person is is so much better, and I will pay more as such

[Throttlesteer]

I've never been a fan of "view the scan and determine the condition for yourself" or "See pics for condition" with auctions. Let's face it, you can't see everything from a low res scan. That being said, I think this Berra still falls within PSA's guidelines. I have PSA 4s that have noticeable creases as opposed to wrinkles.

[bobbyw8469]

I think the card looks great. I had a guy nit pick over every little nick and pick in a PSA 7 once. I basically told him, I don't think this is the card for you. It wound up selling an hour later to someone else. If you have a card that looks like a '7' that only reveals itself to be a '4' when you tilt it at a 27% angle under florescent light, well........

[cardsagain74]

Even though it naturally has a lot of great qualities, I would've guessed that the combo bottom right corner and t/b centering would have taken it down to a 6 max to start with. And then that wrinkling would've meant a best case 3.5, and most likely 2.5/3

I'd return it.

Edit: Can see the posters above feel differently. I don't doubt there could be some exceptions out there, but I cannot remember ever seeing a "noticeably creased" PSA 4 (unless you're referring to slight small corner folds), much less multiple ones. And have always felt something getting a 4 is usually the typical corner/edge/centering issues that go with the territory of a midgrade card, so I would have expected the downgrade to be from minor edge issues somewhere that you couldn't easily see or something like that. I totally disagree with so much slack being given to that Berra getting that high of a grade.

[111gecko]

I don't see any issue with the seller here. The card is a PSA 4. The seller didn't grade it, PSA did. There are thousands of cards graded by PSA out there in listings that just have the grade and that's it. OP bought a 4 and that's what he got whether he likes the card grade or not.

[JollyElm]

Does anyone even for a moment think that the seller's use of that particular photo was an 'unintentional' mistake?? A photo that utterly disguises all of the wrinkling???? I would not be happy.

Edited to add:
I've got to provide a bit of a correction. I was under the impression that the first picture posted here was from the ebay listing, but now I see it wasn't. In looking at the original listing, the photo is without any glare, but still very small and the wrinkling is completely lost to the viewer.

[Tere1071]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Does anyone even for a moment think that the seller's use of that particular photo was an 'unintentional' mistake?? A photo that utterly disguises all of the wrinkling???? I would not be happy.

I have three cards graded a "3" and they do demonstrate having a wrinkle, but no creasing. I have some ungraded cards as well that have either a wrinkle or a crease that's only noticeable under a light, but the sellers indicated as such. I'm replacing my other Berra which a solid, ungraded very good card. It has a wrinkle that goes from the left edge to just inside the arm and it lost a bit of its luster, but without any damage. The card I just received displays better, but it also cost more money, I expected better based on other PSA 4 cards I have received from auctions.

Yes, PSA graded the card and I disagree with their assessment on this one. For me, a description of a card is not solely based on the grade of the slab or its photo, having an accompanying description serves as a guide to better evaluate whether or not to purchase it. Had I seen "wrinkles" in the description, I would have passed and waited for another one to appear.

[painthistorian]

This card is actually accurately graded as per original standards has nice appeal, only last two years did PSA & SGC not figure "wrinkles" as a 4, a crease always was a 3 especially if the surface was broken but this card is better than a 3 and unless you specifically asked if there were wrinkles or hidden defects, the seller did nothing wrong, of course if your not happy, return the card as you have the right to do that as per e bay, and the seller has to accept this....I do understand how you feel this way as the wrinkles are evident in your scan.
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[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by Tere1071

I expected better based on other PSA 4 cards I have received from auctions.

Again, I would have felt the same way. None of my PSA 4s have anything that resembles those creases/wrinkles. Nor do the countless ones I've observed online or in person. Regardless of when they were graded.

These opinions that it's so normal, accurate, and expected for a 4 to possibly have that level of damage are honestly baffling. Especially for a card that's already going to lose ground from its centering/bottom right conrner

[Tere1071]

Originally Posted by cardsagain74

Again, I would have felt the same way. None of my PSA 4s have anything that resembles those creases/wrinkles. Nor do the countless ones I've observed online or in person. Regardless of when they were graded.

These opinions that it's so normal, accurate, and expected for a 4 to possibly have that level of damage are honestly baffling. Especially for a card that's already going to lose ground from its centering/bottom right conrner

The selection of 53 Bowman Berra cards is rather poor. I bought the card, not the holder because it had eye appeal and the price was reasonable in light of the grades and prices that are currently offered. A very good to excellent card for me has some softness in the corners and may not be perfectly centered. I worked card shows and in baseball card shops from 1975-1996 so I have had experience with grading.

I realize that grading is very subjective, even when there are more or less guidelines that have been established. Right now I have a Kretlow with perfect centering and a nice image; its flaw is that it has a minuscule paper wrinkle on the top right of the card. It was advertised as vg/ex by the seller I purchased it from and though I'm tempted to keep it as it looks great I am trying to have a wrinkle and crease-free mid-grade set. I will advertise it as vg/ex because there is damage to the card as light as it is.

I was hoping this Berra would be a keeper, but I guess I'll have to keep searching and hope I run across another vg/ex to excellent condition card at the price I paid for this copy. Thank you for the feedback from both sides of the equation.

[rats60]

The seller accepts returns. If you are unhappy with the grade, return it. I think the card is over graded and the scans don’t really show the creasing. I would have noted the damage in my description as I try to avoid any condition miscommunication issues that would lead to returns and would insure the buyer is happy with their purchase.

[moeson]

Originally Posted by painthistorian

This card is actually accurately graded as per original standards has nice appeal, only last two years did PSA & SGC not figure "wrinkles" as a 4, a crease always was a 3 especially if the surface was broken but this card is better than a 3 and unless you specifically asked if there were wrinkles or hidden defects, the seller did nothing wrong, of course if your not happy, return the card as you have the right to do that as per e bay, and the seller has to accept this....I do understand how you feel this way as the wrinkles are evident in your scan.
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So what grade would an otherwise MT card likely get from PSA these days with a barely there wrinkle?