1914 CJ Joe Jackson PSA 2 to SGC 5

[swarmee]

So what are we paying them for? Maybe we need to start a Graded Card Submitter Support Group to try to stop this vicious cycle. It's like drug peddling and addiction.

[oldjudge]

You are paying for a one minute or less look at most cards. If you want someone to spend a half hour on a card then grading fees will be a lot higher. People can’t legitimately expect a lot for $7.

[swarmee]

It was rhetorical, but with a $99 max declared value for bulk submissions, these weren't submitted at that level. Some of these cost between $1,000 and $5,000 for the service level to be graded.

[barrysloate]

This hobby is shot. Collectors need to understand that if they continue to collect baseball cards their collections will contain altered cards, and that they will not be getting what they paid for. You either have to accept that fact, or find a new hobby. What a shame.

[Republicaninmass]

The constant questioning and denial of some leave me to wonder how many PWCC cards they are sitting on.

[swarmee]

Ah, the dam will break; they just don't believe it yet. They're at some earlier stage of the grieving process.

And some will have already gotten their refunds, and the ones that hold out the longest risk losing it. This is why PSA and SGC and BGS need to decertify all of those altered cards in holders. Collectors will clutch them to their bosom and never let them go without it.

[Batpig]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

The constant questioning and denial of some leave me to wonder how many PWCC cards they are sitting on.

That’s probably the root of anyone denying this right now. They either have a large legal or financial liability (or both).

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

The constant questioning and denial of some leave me to wonder how many PWCC cards they are sitting on.

It doesn't bother me that people want to make sure the cards are the same, I think it's fair. The only thing that would bother me is continued denial in the face of the evidence.

It's interesting that of all the cards outed on Blowout so far, I don't think there's been a single instance when someone came forward and said he still owned the "pre" card.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It doesn't bother me that people want to make sure the cards are the same, I think it's fair. The only thing that would bother me is continued denial in the face of the evidence.

It's interesting that of all the cards outed on Blowout so far, I don't think there's been a single instance when someone came forward and said he still owned the "pre" card.

Absolutely agree with your second sentence the continued denial in the face of evidence is bothersome. I get people have big cards in their holders but come on how are these guys, the graders this bad at their jobs?? Sometime smells bad real bad.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

The constant questioning and denial of some leave me to wonder how many PWCC cards they are sitting on.

I only have a few of what some would consider high end cards. They were all bought privately except for an REA win, the only one I've ever won there. I have bid on quite a few pwcc cards over the years, but only won 4 or 5.

I have mentioned before I use PWCC for all of my consignments. There's always an auction running, they get the highest prices, and have the lowest fees. I am still not convinced yet at their level of involvement in this scandal, and think it's very possible card doctors use their service for the same reasons I do.

[orly57]

I know that there are a lot of guys who have some amazing ungraded cards. But isn’t it fair to say that if you are a TPG receiving a really nice 1914 Joe Jackson at this stage in the game, there is a 90% chance that the card has already been graded before, and the owner wasn’t happy with the grade and/or altered it? Wouldn’t they look at a card like that a bit more skeptically, and assume that at best, the owner wasn’t happy with the previous grade and broke open for a regrade? If I see a raw 1914 CJ JJ at a show, I can tell you that my first thought would be “no thanks. You either got an ‘A’ or the card presents much better than the grade you got and didn’t like.”

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

This hobby is shot. Collectors need to understand that if they continue to collect baseball cards their collections will contain altered cards, and that they will not be getting what they paid for. You either have to accept that fact, or find a new hobby. What a shame.

Barry--Please convince Corey of this. I'd like to save him this heartache and buy a few of his cards before they become worthless. I know I'm crazy, but it would be helping a friend out.

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Barry--Please convince Corey of this. I'd like to save him this heartache and buy a few of his cards before they become worthless. I know I'm crazy, but it would be helping a friend out.

Most of Corey's cards aren't even graded.

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Most of Corey's cards aren't even graded.

But most scarce ungraded cards are valued based on the estimated grade they would receive. If the graded card market collapses so will these. I’m here for him, Barry. Consider me a beacon in the fog.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

You are paying for a one minute or less look at most cards. If you want someone to spend a half hour on a card then grading fees will be a lot higher. People can’t legitimately expect a lot for $7.

But Jay, wouldn’t a nice looking, 1914 Cracker Jack joe Jackson have a value substantial enough that the grading fees are $500-$1,000=? And if so, I would think that kind of grading fee should buy you a much better, longer and detailed look than a $7 submission (perhaps a 100x better look?)

[Peter_Spaeth]

The 5 was graded at the National according to Brent.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The 5 was graded at the National according to Brent.

So was the Leaf Jackie we saw earlier. Good show!!

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2827

[Johnny630]

Is that Cracker Jack for sure the same card ?
Removing Gloss, how in the world can they miss that ? The top right corner ? What kinda special chemicals were used on that idk it’s not that hard if this is the same card....how did SGC miss this crapola...it’s disgusting

[PiratesWS1979]

Here's more proof it's the same card:

The larger circle is paper loss while the small circle was recolored.

(sorry, the PWCC image is not the best of quality, even though it's "High Res")

Heritage PSA 2:


PWCC SGC 5:

[BeanTown]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The 5 was graded at the National according to Brent.

Dealers race to the TPG booths on the early set up day of the National! Why? Because they have a light staff and they want to take advantage of the one day turn around at the National promo price! Not to mention, the grader behind the curtain is most likely one of the new kids working for them where they are taught to spend 30 seconds or less to grade.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by BeanTown

Dealers race to the TPG booths on the early set up day of the National! Why? Because they have a light staff and they want to take advantage of the one day turn around at the National promo price! Not to mention, the grader behind the curtain is most likely one of the new kids working for them where they are taught to spend 30 seconds or less to grade.

The Leaf Jackie we have seen also was graded at the National and at least a couple of the others identified on BO.

[topcat61]

Originally Posted by swarmee

So what are we paying them for? Maybe we need to start a Graded Card Submitter Support Group to try to stop this vicious cycle. It's like drug peddling and addiction.

How about a class action lawsuit. What would you think would be found through Discovery in PSA, Beckett, SGC and PWCC's files? Probably could ask for SEC files on Collector's Universe as well?

[Peter_Spaeth]

I can't recall which thread but I've explained at length why this situation isn't conducive to class action treatment.

As for the SEC, I can't imagine even if investigative files existed which is doubtful you would get them via a subpoena in a civil lawsuit to which the SEC is not a party. Too many issues there to list.

[2dueces]

Happily collecting beaters since the 80's.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by 2dueces

Happily collecting beaters since the 80's.

As opposed to some of the companies that have happily been beating collectors...