1952 topps martin

[skyhook]

how rare is a 1952 topps billy martin grey back?

[tedzan]

Since 1981, I have been working towards completing a 1952 Topps master set. I still need some of the mid-series gray cardboard cards.

Besides my Billy Martin shown here....I have had only one other Billy Martin in all these years.


TED Z

[skyhook]

thanks for the help. i am trying to decide on grading mine or selling it raw.

[campyfan39]

How much are you asking for it raw?

[Volod]

I don't mean to cast aspersions on anyone's collecting focus and can understand the fascination with all the multifarious variations in this set, but it seems somewhat comical to me that what was probably the result of one of the Shorin brothers ordering the pressroom to just use an inferior cardstock to continue printing that number series until the regular white stock arrived from the supplier became a rare and valued "variation" half a century later. Again, don't mean to offend with this comment - it just strikes me as odd.

[ALR-bishop]

We variation/oddity card guys are a weird lot alright. I have never pursued these or the similar 54s, or the other 50s and 60s back stock color differences. But a true master 52 set collector would have to have them and I salute their dedication. The 52 gray back commons in decent condition have been going for $ 500 and more on ebay, so someone really wants them . And, the pursuit of those is not really different than me paying large amounts for the 58 Herrer, the 57 Bakep, the 53 Campos black star, the 59 Sullivan without a "." , or the 1980 yellows....all just print defects as opposed to real variations

[flkersn]

Even rarer is the gray back Martin with the white (ish) border on the front.

If the graybacks are the result of inferior stock, then there must have been at least two different inferior stocks--one resulting in gray borders on the front and one with white(ish).

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by tedzan

TED Z

This Topps mid-series (#131-190) printed on GRAY cardboard stock was not printed or issued in 1952. Subsequently, Topps apparently printed this series
of cards on the same cardboard stock that they printed their other cards (Rails & Sails, etc.).
Whatever the reason why Topps did this is unknown to me, other then I'm certain that these cards were not issued in 1952 with their regular issue of 407
BB cards....nor were they issued with Bubble Gum. Perhaps, some one else on this forum knows why....and, can clue us in.


TED Z

[ALR-bishop]

I certainly do not know the answer to their origins, but having put together the 52 and 54 sets with known variations ( including the 2 Mantle, Thompson and Robinson variations and the 3 Campos variations) ....other then the 2 "Canadian" subset issues ( I know they may not actually be Canadian in origin but are often referred to in that way), I know how tough it is to put those "sets" together and salute folks like Ted who are doing so.

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

I certainly do not know the answer to their origins, but having put together the 52 and 54 sets with known variations ( including the 2 Mantle, Thompson and Robinson variations and the 3 Campos variations) ....other then the 2 "Canadian" subset issues ( I know they may not actually be Canadian in origin but are often referred to in that way), I know how tough it is to put those "sets" together and salute folks like Ted who are doing so.

Al,

Wow quite an accomplishment. Nice....

Z Wheat

[Volod]

Originally Posted by tedzan

This Topps mid-series (#131-190) printed on GRAY cardboard stock was not printed or issued in 1952. Subsequently, Topps apparently printed this series
of cards on the same cardboard stock that they printed their other cards (Rails & Sails, etc.).
Whatever the reason why Topps did this is unknown to me, other then I'm certain that these cards were not issued in 1952 with their regular issue of 407
BB cards....nor were they issued with Bubble Gum. Perhaps, some one else on this forum knows why....and, can clue us in.


TED Z

Thanks for the info, Ted. But I'm wondering, how is it known that the greys were issued later than 1952? Is it just the recollection of collectors who did not see tham in that year, but saw them at some later point?

[tedzan]

Several of us ole "dinosaurs" in the hobby, who collected 1952 Topps as kids in 1952, have compared notes over the years on all that is 1952 Topps.

Most of us have put together "master sets". I need a few more GRAY's to complete my set. Also, I should add that I have all of my 1952 Topps cards
from my youth.

Anyhow, everyone of us dinosaurs recall very well that none of these GRAY's were available in '52. There are enough of us that we represent various
regions of the country, so it can't be said that the GRAY's were limited to a specific regions in this country.

One of the well-known veteran collectors in the hobby, John Rumierz, has done some research and he says this series of 60 BB cards were issued with
products other than Topps gum. This is obvious, since there is no gloss on the front of these GRAY's (as is found on the regular 1952 Topps BB cards).
John R. thinks that the GRAY's were issued circa 1953-54.


TED Z

[campyfan39]

^ very interesting theory!
Also, wow a master set of 52's has to be my dream! Hopefully one day I can find a lot reasonable enough to get started. For me it is "the monster"

[Volod]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Several of us ole "dinosaurs" in the hobby, who collected 1952 Topps as kids in 1952, have compared notes over the years on all that is 1952 Topps.
Most of us have put together "master sets". I need a few more GRAY's to complete my set. Also, I should add that I have all of my 1952 Topps cards from my youth.
Anyhow, everyone of us dinosaurs recall very well that none of these GRAY's were available in '52. There are enough of us that we represent various regions of the country, so it can't be said that the GRAY's were limited to a specific regions in this country.
One of the well-known veteran collectors in the hobby, John Rumierz, has done some research and he says this series of 60 BB cards were issued with products other than Topps gum. This is obvious, since there is no gloss on the front of these GRAY's (as is found on the regular 1952 Topps BB cards). John R. thinks that the GRAY's were issued circa 1953-54.
TED Z

Ted - Thanks once again for dispensing hobby history enlightenment. I also admit to dinosaur status, but I'm closer to a pteranodon than T-Rex because I never could find Topps cards in 1952. Found plenty of Bowman and even '51 Redbacks and All Stars, but for some reason the 1952 set seemed to be sparsely distributed in my small town. Maybe the Mom/Pop's hid them on the back shelves when they saw me coming in with a jar of pennies.

[flkersn]

And why do some gray backs have white borders on the front?

[tedzan]

All the 52T mid-series (#131-190) rare gray-back cards I have seen are also grayish on their fronts. And, they lack the gloss found on all the fronts of the regular 52T
BB cards.

Originally Posted by tedzan

TED Z

You have to show us a scan of what cards you are referring to. Because I have never seen rare mid-series gray-backs with bright white fronts.


TED Z

[skyhook]

any idea of the value of a ex-mt martin gray back?