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  #1  
Old 07-15-2015, 04:23 PM
ejharrington ejharrington is offline
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Default Card Graders vs. Credit Rating Agencies

There are a lot of shady characters in this hobby. I don't think anyone would deny that. It's no different than the stock market / government / etc.

After the 2008 financial meltdown there were a lot of villians identified. But I always have thought the worst offenders were the credit rating agencies that put their stamp of approval on mortgage-backed securities that should have been rated as junk. Their only job was to do due diligence and they failed, either out of complacency or corruption or both.

There is a lot of shady stuff that goes on in this hobby. Card alteration, shill bidding, stolen cards, fake autographs, "game used" jerseys that really aren't, etc. But, to me, if altered and/or marked cards are being overgraded by PSA/SGC that is the single "bad act" that can ruin the hobby through erosion of confidence ultimately cost a lot of people lots of money.

As a relatively new person to the hobby, I put faith in the grades PSA/SGC give. I don't buy ungraded cards just because I know I don't have the knowledge to determine if a card is fake, altered, etc.

High priced cards / expensive autographs should be given extra scrutiny by the grading companies, even if it means a higher cost to do so.
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Old 07-15-2015, 04:28 PM
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ullmandds ullmandds is offline
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good points...and I agree that the TPG'ers have turned this hobby into a "house of cards!"
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Old 07-15-2015, 04:28 PM
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I don't think this is the best analogy. The major TPG's back up their grades. That is, if they make an error, they will compensate the owner of the card the difference between the price that the owner purchased the card for and the market value for the card at the revised grade. Credit rating agencies obviously don't offer any kind of compensation if the rating that they provided proved incorrect.
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Old 07-15-2015, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glchen View Post
I don't think this is the best analogy. The major TPG's back up their grades. That is, if they make an error, they will compensate the owner of the card the difference between the price that the owner purchased the card for and the market value for the card at the revised grade. Credit rating agencies obviously don't offer any kind of compensation if the rating that they provided proved incorrect.
Yeah, IF they acknowledge the error. Big IF. "The graders stand behind the grade."

Just look at David Hall's defense of the Wagner.
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 07-15-2015 at 04:34 PM.
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Old 07-15-2015, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glchen View Post
I don't think this is the best analogy. The major TPG's back up their grades. That is, if they make an error, they will compensate the owner of the card the difference between the price that the owner purchased the card for and the market value for the card at the revised grade. Credit rating agencies obviously don't offer any kind of compensation if the rating that they provided proved incorrect.
I have never read PSA's guarantee but i have read SGC's and it is a joke at best. Everthing is at their discretion.
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Old 07-15-2015, 05:17 PM
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I have never read PSA's guarantee but i have read SGC's and it is a joke at best. Everthing is at their discretion.
I've used SGC's guarantee before, and let me just say that they were extremely fair. If someone has had a bad experience taking SGC up on this, it would be news to me.
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Old 07-15-2015, 05:22 PM
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I've used SGC's guarantee before, and let me just say that they were extremely fair. If someone has had a bad experience taking SGC up on this, it would be news to me.
That is good to know Gary. I just found the way it is worded very one sided.
Here is a copy of it.

SGC Guarantees that all cards submitted shall be graded by SGC grading experts in accordance with SGC grading procedures. In the event the owner of an SGC card believes that the card has been overgraded with respect to such procedures, the owner may resubmit the card to SGC for a review of the assigned grade.

If the grade determined under such review is lower than that originally assigned to the card, SGC shall, at SGC's discretion, either replace the card or pay the difference between the current fair market value of the card at the newly established grade and the current fair market value of the grade originally assigned to such card, in the form of either cash or grading credit. Due to the volatile nature of the sportscard market and Internet auctions/sales, the selling prices in these auctions do not necessarily represent the current fair market value of any particular sportscard. SGC will determine the current fair market value of a card which is assigned a lower grade on review, based upon what SGC believes to be reliable current market information. Clerical errors with respect to the description or grade of the card(s) which would be obvious upon inspection shall not be subject to the SGC guarantee stated herein.
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T210 Series 3 Ft Worth, looking for low end examples and especially ones with a Y shaped hole punch. I also have some extra T210's for trade.
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Old 07-15-2015, 05:48 PM
bcornell bcornell is offline
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Originally Posted by ejharrington View Post
As a relatively new person to the hobby, I put faith in the grades PSA/SGC give. I don't buy ungraded cards just because I know I don't have the knowledge to determine if a card is fake, altered, etc.
The percentage of TPG mis-graded cards (intentional or not) is very small. The grading companies exist primarily because of the shenanigans that went on before. James Copeland, for one, certainly could have used them: I waved money at Bill Mastro and high grade cards appeared.

Bill
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Old 07-15-2015, 05:54 PM
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It may be small in percentage terms, if you include all the huge numbers of inexpensive cards that have been slabbed, but I would bet there are many millions of dollars of altered cards in holders.
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 07-15-2015 at 06:13 PM.
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Old 07-15-2015, 06:45 PM
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Anybody can start a sports card grading company, not regulated or insurance required for grading error, but insurance most likely needed for theft etc when in their possession. So the card grading companies can make there own rules and its only their opinion what the grade is. Just remember a card just money on paper and is only worth what someone is willing to pay whether slabbed or raw at that time, Also it always come down to doing your research and if not sure about the card walk away.
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