Open letter to STAT and Christopher Morales - Page 12

Archive · #**551** 02-21-2008, 01:16 PM

Posted By: Bill PanagopulosLeon, Earlier today you mentioned posting to this forum, specifically "being questioned here about letting this thread and many of the posts remain" May I ask - were you asked to leave the post up, or to take it down? Secondly - are you saying that I could ask you the identity of anyone posting to this forum? Thanks for your attention. BP

Archive · #**552** 02-21-2008, 01:23 PM

Posted By: johnLeon, If the answer is "yes" to Bill's question, I would like the id to some posters also. Thank you in advance John

Archive · #**553** 02-21-2008, 01:39 PM

Posted By: **

Archive · #**554** 02-21-2008, 01:42 PM

Posted By: Richard S. SimonMost items signed from the grave have very little if any value <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>. You would be surprised how easy it is to raise the dead <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>. You probably should not bid on that flag. -- I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. Unknown author -- We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember. No retreat baby, no surrender. The Boss

Archive · #**555** 02-21-2008, 01:49 PM

Posted By: Anonymous*

Archive · #**556** 02-21-2008, 01:53 PM

Posted By: DDMorales, or whichever forensic savant authenticated that item, would probably claim that in his opinion, George Archer is not dead. Since it's his opinion, he can't be wrong.

Archive · #**557** 02-21-2008, 02:01 PM

Posted By: Richard S. Simonzman - I certainly knew you were tongue in cheek, my answer was also. It is a great catch on your part, good info. Dueling authenticators on whether a guy is alive or dead <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>. Ya gotta just shake your head at this stuff. -- I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. Unknown author -- We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember. No retreat baby, no surrender. The Boss

Archive · #**558** 02-21-2008, 02:07 PM

Posted By: DDNo later than tomorrow and that Masters item will be withdrawn.

Archive · #**559** 02-21-2008, 02:11 PM

Posted By: zman7*

Archive · #**560** 02-21-2008, 02:40 PM

Posted By: Bill PanagopulosWhere is Mr. Morales? I hoped (and prayed) that we would have an answer from him by today. John - Your Beatles signatures?

Archive · #**561** 02-21-2008, 03:01 PM

Posted By: Richard S. SimonDD- I may be wrong, but I don't recall CC withdrawing any items. How can you sell Rube Waddell cuts at $93 if you withdraw it? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. Unknown author -- We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember. No retreat baby, no surrender. The Boss

Archive · #**562** 02-21-2008, 03:18 PM

Posted By: johnbill, I sent the Beatles scans this morning. Shelly got his, did you not? Let me know if not and I can resend in the morning.

Archive · #**563** 02-21-2008, 03:20 PM

Posted By: DDRich, I am just thinking that if they are reading this forum, they may withdraw it. Forgeries are one thing. Having a dead person sign something is another. It seems to me that "opinion" is something that the so called forensic authenticators have on their side. There is no gray area for when George Archer died. Honestly, I hope it stays up. More ammo for whomever can have these guys put out of business.

Archive · #**564** 02-21-2008, 03:23 PM

Posted By: Richard S. SimonThey can always claim it was "ghost signed". <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> -- I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. Unknown author -- We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember. No retreat baby, no surrender. The Boss

Archive · #**565** 02-21-2008, 03:23 PM

Posted By: leonThe policy of this forum is, and has been since I took over 2 1/2 yrs ago, to not allow anonymous posts in controversial or very opinionated threads. It is still in the rules section today. While I can't force anyone that is anonymous to give me their contact info I can give out IP addresses which can usually be traced, delete anonymous posts that are against the rules, and ban folks for not adhering to the rules. With that being said if anyone wants any names or IP addresses you can email me or post here. I have 0 tolerance for anonymous posts in these types of threads plus it's against forum policy. I hope this explains my position. I have never changed my mind on it. best regards edited to add that I was asked to delete several posts which all had good names on them...I denied the request.

Archive · #**566** 02-21-2008, 03:25 PM

Posted By: Sean C<a href="http://www.myccsa.com/Lot.aspx?LotID=75425" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.myccsa.com/Lot.aspx?LotID=75425</a> There doesn't appear to be an authenticator for it. Were there any L of A's associated to it earlier?

Archive · #**567** 02-21-2008, 03:26 PM

Posted By: Dan BrettaSomeone call CC and ask them who certified the autograph of the dead guy. <a href="http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b331/nudan92/?action=view&current=coachscorner.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b331/nudan92/coachscorner.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Archive · #**568** 02-21-2008, 03:56 PM

Posted By: Richard S. SimonHere is there rule regarding returns, I believe this is a very new policy for them: "There will be NO returns on graded cards or Authenticated items. Ask questions regarding the items and look at close up scans before you bid! Any disputes on these must be taken up with graders or authenticators, not Coach's Corner." So if you buy an autograph item and 1, 2 or 3 other authenticators say it is not good you have to go back to Mr Morales or STAT and try to get your money back from them. WOW,, what a great rule, NOT. -- I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. Unknown author -- We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember. No retreat baby, no surrender. The Boss

Archive · #**569** 02-21-2008, 04:21 PM

Posted By: Anonymous*

Archive · #**570** 02-21-2008, 04:51 PM

Posted By: johnleon, Who asked you to delete current posts with good names? Was it a board member or current poster to this thread or one of the named authenticators or auction houses?

Archive · #**571** 02-21-2008, 05:01 PM

Posted By: EricMy guess is one of the later choices.

Archive · #**572** 02-21-2008, 05:08 PM

Posted By: MikeThe biggest joke in the SCD is to see a "15 year customer service award" in all the Coach's Corner ads. How can this be ? No complaints. This is false hope for novice collectors. How does an advertiser not get the customer service award ? I thought STAT Authentic would be a good company with Jeff and Ted. What went wrong ? Just trying to do something they are not expert in ?

Archive · #**573** 02-21-2008, 05:48 PM

Posted By: Ricky YHmmm..I don't think they can sell the autograph of the dead person here in the US. But maybe they can at the sports memorabilia store in Ulan Bator. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Ricky Y

Archive · #**574** 02-21-2008, 05:54 PM

Posted By: DDI think we have a better chance of hearing from Pedro Morales on this thread, than Chris Morales reappearing on here.

Archive · #**575** 02-21-2008, 06:30 PM

Posted By: Max WederDan Who was dead before the 2006 Masters? Max who plays better croquet than golf

Archive · #**576** 02-21-2008, 06:44 PM

Posted By: Randy TrierweilerMax, George Archer died on September 25, 2005. He then came back to the Master's in 2006 and autographed the flag. Coach's corner somehow obtained this historic piece.

Archive · #**577** 02-21-2008, 06:48 PM

Posted By: JoannWith regard to George Archer signature on the 2006 Masters flag. He died maybe 6 months before the Masters itself took place. Is it out of the question that the flag existed that far in advance of the tournament itself? That they make them ahead of time, maybe even in batches of years? It's not like it's a highly dynamic graphic design. It stays the same pretty much - maybe they even have them made up through 2015 or something. I know it sounds like these guys are not only crooks, but they are (inexcusably) sloppy crooks. Still, I think signing for a dead guy is really so careless that maybe it's even beyond some of these guys. So I'm thinking that maybe, is it possible, that someone was gathering actual signatures on a flag that existed 6 months before one of golf's biggest events? Yeah, I'm thinking it's possible. Or it's at least as possible as someone that makes a living forging famous signatures making the stunning blunder of forging a dead guy. I guess it's beyond my comprehension that someone could be that stupid. J

Archive · #**578** 02-21-2008, 06:54 PM

Posted By: Richard S. Simon"Or it's at least as possible as someone that makes a living forging famous signatures making the stunning blunder of forging a dead guy." There have been numerous instances in the autograph hobby of a signature appearing on an item , with the item being made after the death of the signer. I once saw a govt. postcard, no postmark of course, with a signature of Lou Gehrig. The postcard came out a couple of years after he died. -- I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. Unknown author -- We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember. No retreat baby, no surrender. The Boss

Archive · #**579** 02-21-2008, 07:02 PM

Posted By: JoannWow. Then maybe the forgers aren't sloppy. Maybe they just count on the ignorance of buyers, or that they won't bother to look up something like that. Still, even though it is clear in the case of a postcard that didn't exist until after someone's death, it seems at least possible that this flag existed before the guy died. A PC can show a datable event or be datable itself. But the existence of this flag is not necessarily tied directly to the date of the event it was tied to or even used in. Of course, I have no clue whatsoever how these things work. I think I assumed they would have a stack of (something - flags, towels, whatever) that they pass around to all of these guys to sign in turn. Kind of like team balls that may be signed in spring training well before Opening Day or hosting the All Star game or whatever. With that assumption it seemed reasonable that this circuit would take awhile and that they might want to start it ahead of time so as to have their commemorative items ready when the event started. But as I said that was an assumption, and I truly know nothing of this field or practice. So I obviously defer to Richard's far greater experience and expertise and say ... wow. That's some noive! Oh. And if the flag in question is represented as actually having been USED in the 06 Masters prior to being signed, then case closed anyways. J

Archive · #**580** 02-21-2008, 07:35 PM

Posted By: Randy TrierweilerJohn F. Kennedy was featured on a Time magazine cover in 1965. See where this is going? Ebay has had to pull the autographed version due to complaints a few times. Nothing surprises me when it comes to ripping people off. I think the longer you do it, the easier it gets and people get careless.

Archive · #**581** 02-21-2008, 08:04 PM

Posted By: Bill PanagopulosFirst: The "customer satisfaction award". Who issues these things? Do customers spontaneously get together over drinks, and Joey Baggadonuts says: "Hey, those guys at Coach's Corner really satisfy me! Let's give 'em an award!" and everyone agrees and cheers and gets an award printed up? I always wondered about that... I certainly wish I owned an auction house where the authenticator was also my "Public Relations Director" (see article in S.C.D. Mar. 2, 2007), and I had absolutely no obligation to consider anyone else's opinion but his, and if an item he authenticated was disputed I could tell the buyer to go scratch. Hell, I'd have him authenticating EVERYTHING in my catalog! FYI Coach's Corner report per the Better Business Bureau appears below. Of course, I'd bet that the actual number of complaints is much higher. QUOTE Customer Experience Based on BBB files, this company has an unsatisfactory record with the Bureau due to unanswered complaint(s). Customer Complaint Data Number of complaints processed by the BBB over the last 36 months: 3 Number of complaints processed by the BBB in the last 12 months: 2 Complaints Concerned: Selling Practices (1 complaints) 1Company did not respond Contract Disputes (1 complaints) 1Company did not respond The company's size, volume of business and number of transactions may have a bearing on the number of complaints received by the BBB. The complaints filed against a company may not be as important as the type of complaints, and how the company has handled them. The BBB generally does not pass judgement on the validity of complaints filed. UNQUOTE Now, there's been a lot of dispute about what a "forensic document examiner" or "questioned document examiner" is. Here's some info from Wikipedia: Questioned document examination (QDE) is known by many names including forensic document examination, document examination, diplomatics, handwriting examination, and sometimes handwriting analysis, although the latter name is not often used as it may be confused with graphology...The task of forensic document examination is to answer questions about a disputed document using a variety of scientific processes and methods. Many examinations involve a comparison of the questioned document, or components of the document, to a set of known standards. The most common type of examination involves handwriting wherein the examiner tries to address concerns about potential authorship. One task of a forensic document examiner is to determine if a questioned item originated from the same source as the known item(s), then present their opinion in court as an expert witness. Other tasks include determining what has happened to a document, determining when a document was produced, or deciphering information on the document that has been obscured, obliterated or erased... ASTM Standard E444-98 (Standard Description of Scope of Work Relating to Forensic Document Examination) indicates there are four components to the work of a forensic document examiner. It states that an examiner "makes scientific examinations, comparisons, and analyses of documents in order to: (1) establish genuineness or nongenuineness, or to expose forgery, or to reveal alterations, additions or deletions, (2) identify or eliminate persons as the source of handwriting, (3) identify or eliminate the source of typewriting or other impression, marks, or relative evidence, and (4) write reports or give testimony, when needed... There are three possible methods of instruction for an aspiring document examiner: Self-education is the way in which the pioneers of the field began, as there was no other method of instruction. Apprenticeship has become the widespread manner in which many examiners are now taught. In fact, this is the method that is recommended by ASTM in Standard E2388-05. To conform with the ASTM standard such training "shall be the equivalent of a minimum of 24 months full-time training under the supervision of a principal trainer" and "the training program shall be successfully completed in a period not to exceed four years". The training program must also include an extensive list of specific syllabus topics outlined in ASTM Standard E2388-05. College and/or university programs are very limited at this time. This is due, in part, to the relatively limited demand for forensic document examiners. It also relates to the need for extensive practical experience; particularly with respect to handwriting examination. It is difficult to include this degree of practical experience in a normal academic program.. A document examiner may be certified by the American Board of Forensic Document Examiners, Inc. (ABFDE), which was formed in 1977 with a grant from the U.S. Department of Justice. The ABFDE is one of two bodies accredited and recognized by the Forensic Specialties Accreditation Board, Inc (FSAB) to carry out certification of forensic document examiners. To date, there is no federal licensing involved in the discipline. However, the court has recognized the ABFDE as reputable in the case of U.S. v. Buck, 1987, in denying a motion that claimed that handwriting comparisons were unreliable. An applicant to the ABFDE for certification must meet the following requirements: they must be of good moral character, high integrity and good repute; and possess high ethical and professional standing the program is limited to permanent residents of the USA, Canada and Mexico must possess a bachelor degree (or higher) from an accredited academic institution, or equivalent must successfully have completed a full-time training program of at least 2 years duration in a forensic laboratory recognized by the Board must provide three references from forensic document examiners certified or recognized by the Board must be actively engaged in the full-time practise of forensic document examination and must demonstrate a record of appropriate professional activity in forensic document examination In addition to meeting the basic requirements listed above, an applicant must also pass comprehensive written, practical and oral examinations that explore the wide range of problems encountered in document examination. Certificates issued by the ABFDE are valid for five years, and can be renewed. During that five-year renewal period, the diplomate must earn at least 40 continuing education credits. Credits are awarded for a variety of related activities, such as attendance and participation at ABFDE recognized forensic meeting and programs, and publication of articles in journals recognized by the Board. Individuals holding a valid Certificate of Qualification issued by the ABFDE will use the designation "Diplomate of the American Board of Forensic Document Examiners." ABFDE ensures that the applicant satisfies a number of standardized requirements with regular testing to ensure that the examiner performs at the same high level of professionalism, as do the other people in the trade. More-so than merely denoting the attainment of certain academic and minimum standards, board certification indicates that the examiner cares enough about the profession to spend time and effort to adequately prepare himself or herself to properly serve the public. Courts must assess the credibility of the document examiner as an expert witness and to do this they will often rely upon the examiner’s reputation in the profession together with his or her affiliations with credible professional organizations. BFDE The Board of Forensic Document Examiners (BFDE) also provides certification of forensic document examiners. The BFDE is the other body accredited and recognized by the Forensic Specialties Accreditation Board, Inc (FSAB) in this area. NOW -- If you've managed to plow through all of this, the Wikipedia link is: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Questioned_document_examination" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Questioned_document_examination</a> Who wants to contact them and check the credentials of people laying claim to being forensic/questioned document examiners? Anyone want to see if all those continuing education credit were earned? How about the attendance in a "full-time training program of at least 2 years duration in a forensic laboratory"? And the three references? And the "full time employment" as a forensic document specialist? Anyone want to make a statement about "the examiner's reputation in the profession"? AMERICAN ACADEMY OF FORENSIC SCIENCES: Anne Warren Executive Director (719) 636-1100, extension 214 awarren@aafs.org FINALLY: FOURTH REQUEST: Mr. Morales: Your website states, verbatim: QUOTE "An Open Challenge As noted herein, I will meet anyone in a public forum to review and assess my work efforts. Since private communications are often cherry picked to bolster a point of view, at times misdirecting the facts, it is my position that any meetings and communications be conduct in the open. If anyone desires to contact me concerning an open forum, please do not hesitate to call, email or otherwise contact me at anytime". UNQUOTE Mr. Morales, I hereby challenge you to appear, before a group of your peers in the autograph authentication trade and the international press, to: a.) Discuss your "forensic" methods of authentication, and your education and qualifications, using exemplars or otherwise; b.) Describe in detail other criteria you used to authenticate the thousands of various autographs for which you have issued certificates; c.) explain your relationships, if any, with the various consignors, auction houses, galleries, etc. for whom you authenticate, and; d.) assess your work efforts, ie: how have your authentications been received in the autograph market, as a whole. If you wish to limit the discussion to your "work efforts" alone, I would expect your peers would still meet with you, depending on the agenda. I will pay your airfare and hotel room expenses for your attendance at such a forum in the New York area, for a meeting within the next 60 days. As stated above, I expect you would be asked to respond to inquiries from your peers, that is, knowledgeable, recognized dealers of the same material which you have authenticated. Should the location not be convenient for you, I'm sure we can arrange a meeting in Falls Church. Mr. Shelly Jaffe has already graciously agreed to attend, as has Mr. Frank Caiazzo. I assume that this email will reach you, since I do not have your emali address. If anyone posting to this site can confirm delivery to Mr. Morales, I would be much obliged. B. Panagopulos PS Shall I assume that your CONTINUED silence in response to this message means you decline my offer?

Archive · #**582** 02-21-2008, 08:14 PM

Posted By: Richard S. SimonJoann - it is possible for that flag to have been manufactured before 2006, but awfully unlikely for it to have been signed by the golfers. I cannot think that the Masters would ask a large group of golfers at the 2005 Masters to sign a flag for the 2006 Masters. -- I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. Unknown author -- We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember. No retreat baby, no surrender. The Boss

Archive · #**583** 02-21-2008, 08:44 PM

Posted By: shelly jaffeThis thread was based on two different companies, C. Morales and STAT. I would like to now discuss STAT. They are the most repulsive of all. Their web site claims that they have over a 100 years of experience. Let us look at what that means. Ted Taylor, you failed in the HBO test on the following people, Mantle, Dimaggio, and Williams. You say that you worked for Score Board. I know in fact that you did, the only problem is you have no idea what a real signature looks like. As far as your partner is concerned he is correct when he says that he authenticates for the Babe Ruth Museum. The problem is he did't say it was in person authentication. He has nothing to do with authenticateding older items for the Museum. What really turns my stomach is your COA's. I will print it out on this site and if SCD doesn't have the balls to disqualify you as an authenticator then the people on this site will make it happen. Where in your one hundred years of experience do you have the knowledge of Rock and Roll, History, Movies, Authors, and Aviation. I know that Sitting Bull and George Washington played first base for the Mets. This is the way they authenticate an item using this disclaimer: Verification - STAT Authentic, an LLC registered in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, renders a service in expressing our opinion and knowledge, however, STAT Authentic LLC and its partners/employees does not guarantee the accuracy of our opinion expressed regarding any items submitted for authentication. We assume no liability whatsoever for any loss or damage allegedly sustained as a result of any opinion rendered. STAT Authentic LLC is in no way liable for personal loss due to damage alteration or any other reason once this item leaves our possession. Our seal, signatures, registration number and processing date must appear on this certificate for it to be valid. By the way STAT has authenticated more Beatles pieces in one year than they could have signed( just a guess) CAN ANYONE ON THIS SITE WANT TO HAVE THEIR SEAL OF APPROVAL? STAT, Morales had the balls to come on here, why not you?

Archive · #**584** 02-21-2008, 08:59 PM

Posted By: shelly jaffeI might be speaking out of turn but the same challenge goes out to STAT. I will pay your way to Falls Church or any venue you want. That Goes to CC. and SCD. It is as they say in the octagon "Let get it on". You have a lot of people that never came on this site , and now are telling you how outraged they are. They deserve a reply. I am the same person that SCD would not print a reply when UDA made an effort to make the $85.000 card go away. You also would not a let a letter about Ted Taylor be printed without your editing it. Censorship is something that belongs in a third world country. It doesn't take a genius to know who your allegiance is with. Oh for the good old days when Rocky could print and write what he wanted.

Archive · #**585** 02-22-2008, 12:39 AM

Posted By: DDShelly, I am going to guess that STAT are the ones that e-mailed Leon. I also think that they could be feeling some pressure from the publisher of SCD that had e-mailed and said he would read this thread. I so hope that is the case. A little civil war that for once will have the innocent victims get justice. Maybe SCD will sell to CC. If you still have a subscription to SCD, and want to retain it when it sells to CC, you get your choice of any 19th Century HOF player photo, in blue or silver sharpie, complete with both Morales and STAT certifications.

Archive · #**586** 02-22-2008, 06:02 AM

Posted By: J. McMurry Thank you Bill for your response on the Beatles Albums. I used to collect Beatles in the mid 80's (not autographs)and never realized the rarity of a signed album cover, it trully amazes me to know the facts. I'm starting to believe that this thread is past the point of beating a dead horse. no one here is gonna buy from the mentioned parties. For this to actually accomplish something, pressure needs to be put on the media (SCD) that enables the mentioned parties to appear legit to the mass of novice collectors. I doubt that the Masters gets involved in any way with golfers signing their event flags, in fact, if given the chance they would probably not allow the flags into the secoundary market at all. That Woods and Palmer sigs on that flag look horrible. Knowing what I've read about wood's signing habits, I cant imagine him signing something like that.

Archive · #**587** 02-22-2008, 06:25 AM

Posted By: Bill PanagopulosMr. McMurry, SCD is not the place to stop. I'd like to hear from anyone on this board with contacts to any major member of the press. My initial thoughts are Sports Illustrated, Rolling Stone, Baseball Digest, Sporting News, Geek Monthly, etc., also prominent newspaper contacts.

Archive · #**588** 02-22-2008, 09:24 AM

Posted By: shelly jaffeI said in an earlier thread that if I where to find out the Morales worked at GWU I would retract my statement. I have found out that he was a Criminal Justice Advisor. That being said. It still does not make him a handwriting expert.

Archive · #**589** 02-22-2008, 11:10 AM

Posted By: J. McMurry"SCD is not the place to stop." You are correct sir. What else can the "little man" collector like myself do to help? (Other than to complain to SCD and/or cancel my subscription.)

Archive · #**590** 02-22-2008, 11:48 AM

Posted By: RobertWhat can can complaining to SCD do? You think they care? E-mail them and see what happens. Post your success or failure here. You are but one subscription. The hobby has already turned their back on the rag, but they continue to truck along with their paper thin product. It's the GOOD advertisers I take issue with. Why anyone supports this magazine is beyond me. The GOOD advertisers know exactly what is going on and they refrain from doing anything. They keep supporting it with advertising. These advertisers should be taken to the wood shed for a talkin'. As far as this thread goes, it's fascinating (love the golf piece) and I have enjoyed catching up. I would like to know if there are any lawyers on this board that could contact me as well. There are like four billion lawyers in this world and when asked to step forth in this Forum, no one comes forth. What gives there? Keep up the great work guys. Bob

Archive · #**591** 02-22-2008, 11:54 AM

Posted By: DDRobert, Not sure who you are referring to regarding the lawyers that won't step forth. Adam, Steve, and many others are regular contributors to this board. Earlier in this thread, Shelly Jaffe, liked by some and not by others, asked for some legal help and got his answer quickly. Maybe if you are specific in the context of your questions, someone would answer. If you want to ask for free advice or guidance that someone is usually paid to provide, I'd ask a little nicer if I didn't know the person who could be helping me.

Archive · #**592** 02-22-2008, 12:07 PM

Posted By: Richard S. SimonDD - do you like Shelly ?? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> -- I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. Unknown author -- We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember. No retreat baby, no surrender. The Boss

Archive · #**593** 02-22-2008, 12:14 PM

Posted By: RobertPublicly (in the past as well), people have asked for specific law help on the Board and perhaps ideas were traded publicly, but questions don't appear to be answered on a public level in detail as requested. I didn't think I asked badly. If there are any lawyers out there, I promise I will be kind to them. How's that? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Just frustrated at this hobby, DD. That's all. Bob

Archive · #**594** 02-22-2008, 12:44 PM

Posted By: DDRich, I have never met Shelly. I can say that I believe in hope and redemption. I also feel that if Shelly has decided to turn his unique knowledge regarding the autograph industry to good purposes, that we take advantage of it. He has served his time, and says he made restitution where possible. That is good enough for me. Why do you ask?

Archive · #**595** 02-22-2008, 01:31 PM

Posted By: Richard S. SimonDD - just kidding around,,, that's why I put the <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> sign there. -- I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. Unknown author -- We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember. No retreat baby, no surrender. The Boss

Archive · #**596** 02-22-2008, 01:36 PM

Posted By: DDSorry Rich. Long night for me and I got up a little while ago.

Archive · #**597** 02-22-2008, 01:55 PM

Posted By: PCMost of the vintage card collecting lawyers stopped looking at this nearly incomprehensible AUTOGRAPGH thread, which is clogging up the vintage CARD forum, five hundred and sixty posts ago. We get it. We actually got it several hundred posts ago. I guess this will continue until the number posts exceeds the number of bogus autographs certified by Morales, or STAT, or whoever.

Archive · #**598** 02-22-2008, 02:12 PM

Posted By: Chuck Tapiasome of us don't care for your stupid little t-whatever cards either? By Shelly stepping up to create this thread, it has brought nothing but more readers here. Stay the hell off of this thread then if you don't like it. I'm sorry you can't read about the "E-bay 10% off" thread quicker or about your t-210 error card or t-206 reprints or tiny url threads.....I really don't give a rats ass about that. So we are even. I for one have found this eye opening, captivating and informative. I think that we should have a regular Thread here called "Ask Shelly", where autograpgh collectors can get some inside advice as to how to tell a Dimaggio fake baseball from an original for instance? What are some tell tale signs of the forged item, stuff like that? What could be better than for Shelly to answer qustions to the public he decieved. He deserves a chance to make amends. Sorry to be posting on your precious little card forum Mr. T.

Archive · #**599** 02-22-2008, 02:13 PM

Posted By: sagard"We get it. We actually got it several hundred posts ago." Sadly I don't think I get it. Am I to trust nothing signed that I didn't witness?

Archive · #**600** 02-22-2008, 02:24 PM

Posted By: PCIn the spirit of not feeding the trolls - "delete".

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