what do you guys make of this t206?

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Posted By: ali_lapoint

http://tinyurl.com/69qe9u

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Posted By: dennis

looks like it is stamped on the back to me.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

I think it's a desperate seller hoping someone is dumber than he is.

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Posted By: ali_lapoint

very strange since he seems to sell a lot of vintage material

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Posted By: brock

Are you the owner of the card?

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Posted By: ali_lapoint

no

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Posted By: fkw

obviously stamped after it was removed from a scrapbook (stamp is over back damage)

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Part of the cigar stamp is on top of the area of paper loss, so this stamp was added later on. Most to all such areas of paper loss on T206s happened long after the cards left the factory and cigarette packs. Also noteworthy is that the Sweet Caporal printing is missing in the area of paper loss, showing that the Sweet Caporal printing came first (as a T206 collector would expect). In short, chronological order is Sweet Caporal printing, then paper loss, then cigar stamp.

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Posted By: Randall Adams

Interesting how the United Cigar logo is similar to the Crofts Candy logo.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Just another slimy ebay crook who instead of getting a job would rather rip people off. What is with these people that would rather steal than work?

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Posted By: Jim VB

<<What is with these people that would rather steal than work?>>


The hours are better. The supervision is lighter. The job is easier. And the pay is, often, higher.

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Posted By: Rhett Yeakley

Th United Cigar Stores Co. was a real company that produced tobacco, and they produced the T38 "Aviators" set (pretty tough non-sports set) and that is their Ad Logo.
-Rhett

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Posted By: B O'Brien

I know that I don't have a very weighted opinion around here, but I would like to stick up for this seller. I am not going to say that he isn't misrepresenting an item here, but he has been helpfull with information for me in the past, and is always very nice in the offline dealings I have had with him.
At the same time, not a very accurate item description.
Thanks,
Bob

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Posted By: Randall Adams

I believe that I have seen this same card with the United stamp on Ebay twice over the last year, and both times it was sold by two different sellers.

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Posted By: Anonymous

hey guys!!!


edited due to anonymity....put your full name out here and say what you want to....especially about people that torture animals like Scott Elkins does....who happens to be this seller...

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

BO, with all respect, just because he's helpful when providing info doesn't excuse fraud, right? He may be the nicest guy in the world while he's stealing your money. The bottom line is that he's selling a $10 card for $1500 based solely on lies. He's a fraud, period.

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Posted By: barrysloate

I don't have a rooster in this fight, so I'll stay out of it.

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Posted By: Rob D.

Very nice, Barry. Veerrrrrry nice.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Hey, I'm the cock of the walk!

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Posted By: Rob D.

Little Barry ...

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Posted By: barrysloate

Little Jerry has to take a dive in the fifth round.

First of all, I don't think you can get a rooster to take a dive...

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Posted By: Rob D.

My favorite part of that episode: George ordering a tamale in slow motion.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Not a great episode, but it has its moments.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Ahh...got it -- our crooked seller also abuses roosters! What a shock. I guess if you can torture animals, defrauding people on ebay isn't too far of a stretch.

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Posted By: Scott L

Have you guys checked out the updated description? Just pointing it out in case you missed it.

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Posted By: Marty Ogelvie

Jeff, I think you touched a nerve with this guy.... 

not sure I am officially in the Net54 club but his feed back is NOT as good as mine, but I am not one to brag... 

martyOgelvie

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Posted By: Anthony S.

I wish I had 20/10 vision.

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Posted By: Jim VB

Personally, I am SHOCKED that any nationally known defense attorney would associate with "KNOWN CRIMINALS." Does your Mom know about this?

Sounds like you should switch to Real Estate law. Maybe a nice little Title Company?

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Posted By: Jim Dale

The seller is a good person I've delt with a few times; in fact we've respectfully disagreed a lot - he asks a lot for his material buts its always been as advertised and accurate.

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Posted By: Matt

I've had only positive experiences with the seller.

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Posted By: ali_lapoint

stamp being under the sweet caporal printing and penetrating deep into the card doesn't make any sense to me. what type of ink would have penetrated that deeply into the card stock? also, if the paper loss occurred after the stamp was applied, even if the stamp went deep into the card stock, there is no way the area of ink where paper loss occured couldn't be obscured or at the very least lighter than the rest of the stamp. lastly, how would anyone explain the existence of this card? for what reason could a t206 ever have that stamp on the back? if the card has really been graded by SGC i'd like to see a picure of it in its holder and see how SGC labeled the card.

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Posted By: Steve

What exactly is the deal here? On top of the card below the card what exactly makes it a 1500.00 card?


Steve

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Posted By: john/z28jd

The seller just about alienated half of his potential buyers with that update. I cant believe he actually wrote that stuff,maybe he has no clue how widely read this board is.

The post edited by Leon was from John Vanderbeck(johnnyv or mrvster) who posts often on this board and is one of the more well known t206 "error" collectors. He also had a very in depth conversation with this guy. Hopefully he will read this thread again and re-post what he said.


I dont want this guy coming after me so I wont say anything bad but I would like to point out how truly amazing this card is for the stamp to be so bold despite all that paper loss(its actually darker where the loss is according to the scan) but it didnt show up at all on the front. One of those smart stamps that knows just when to quit. That alone should make the card more valuable,not $1500 but close I would surmise.

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Posted By: Michael Steele

"Anger Management Class"

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Posted By: paulstratton

Don't take it too hard Jeff...you've forgotten more about the law than he will ever know(which is very little)!

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Posted By: Steve

So what he is trying to say is that this card is a sweet corporal/ united cigars back?

And that it is unique? Is that what all this fuss is about?

Steve

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Posted By: Anonymous

It seems unlikely to me that the ink, particularly around the letters "C" and "I", would be so solid and dark if paper loss occurred in that area with the stamp already extant.

On the other hand, if the stamp went on top, it is hard to explain why it didn't show up between the "I" and the "G".

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Posted By: john/z28jd

Steve,apparently some one at the factory took a blank sheet destined for the press run of sweet caporal ads and decided to place a united cigars ad on one of the backs right before it ran thru the machine,im sure the other workers got quite a kick out of it until the boss came in and yelled "Jetson,youre firrrrred!" . They still let that card go thru into the packs of cigs(obviously it was a finished card because it wasnt handcut) and it was one of the approx 5% of t206s that lasted until today and this seller was lucky enough to happen upon the card and let us little knowledge collectors know what it is and then have the chance to bid on it,for the chance of a lifetime.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Yeah, being a criminal defense lawyer sometimes makes it impossible not to associate with 'known criminals.' Gee, what a smart comment. Scott Elkins, on the other hand, is a criminal himself who tortures animals for a living. And lives in a double-wide trailer. And claims to be on permanent disability. I'd sue him for mentioning me in his listing but what could I get after mopping the floor with him in court? Three lint balls and some more T206 cards with the backs ripped off which he claims are rarities? Scott, I know you're reading this so all I can say is I'm happy that you're taking your anger out on me and not on the poor roosters that you dress up in spurs so that they can tear each other to ribbons in front of you.

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Posted By: Joann

Hilarious. Now he is using ebay as his forum to light into Lichtman. hahaha. He just can NOT get the bitching and grandstanding out of his system. Since every forum he had used in the past has booted his a$$, it will be interesting to see if he discovers ebay as the new soapbox location. hee. Look for it - the fake auctions for a piece of paper for a penny, created as a front to give him a place to complain about how unfairly Jeff and Leon treat him. hahahaha. I'm going to add "Lichtman" and "Leon" to my ebay searches for awhile.

I don't care what his feedback record is or what experiences people have had with him in transactions. His lifestyle and behavior toward animals trumps all, in my book.

J

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Elkins' little 'hobby' of torturing roosters is now illegal in all 50 states and all civilized countries. Yet he's angry with Leon and me (and countless others) who have criticized him for abusing animals. His long-winded explanations about how the animals love fighting to death sound about as believable and intelligent as the explanations that go on during a NAMBLA convention. Sorry, but I won't back off criticizing his support of illegal torture of animals or his fraud on ebay. I'm just wondering whether I should put an associate on a one week mission to sue him and bring me that double-wide.

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Posted By: Anonymous

Lichtman is evil.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Peter, if you want to represent me you can have 1/3 of a double wide. That's almost a full trailer.

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Posted By: Jim VB

Jeff,

You live in the New York area. What the heck are you going to do with ANOTHER double wide? Now... if you lived in New Jersey, depending upon which exit, you might have something you could use.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

"THERE IS ANOTHER LIE - I HAVE NEVER HARMED A ROOSTER."

Elkins just emailed me this.

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Posted By: Anonymous

People don't harm roosters, roosters do.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Jim, there's a nice courtyard in the back of my apartment building. And don't kid yourself -- one can never have enough double-wides.

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Posted By: Anonymous

Jeff I may have a conflict as I already represent NAMBLA and the East Stone Gap Cockfighting Association but I can try to get consents.

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Posted By: Jim VB

Jeff,

Too bad you don't have a place in Rhode Island. You could just put it out back, up on cinder blocks, and let the grass grow up around it. (You know, next to the car that last ran during the Nixon administration.)

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Posted By: Bob Pomilla

This is the guy who also claimed to bet on his cockfights, until it was pointed out to him that while cockfighting (at the time) was legal in his state of Virginia, betting on it wasn't. He then said he didn't say he bet on cockfights in Virginia. Since betting on this pastime of the intellectually arrested, was illegal in all states at the time. unless he left the United States to do his betting, he engaged in illegal activity. A criminal association, by anyone's definition, I would think.