POLL: IN or OUT: YES or NO

[Peter_Spaeth]

There are no great answers here, particularly as I think doing whatever it takes to get an edge always has been and always will be part of sports, and I think it perhaps is unfair to ostracize those who got caught because there probably are equal numbers who used more discreetly.

It may not be entirely defensible, but I would say yes to Bonds and Clemens because they were top tier near certain HOFers before they (allegedly) used, or at least before the popular perception is of when they started. There are other guys whose numbers make them easy candidates but I don't care so much if they never get in, e.g. Sosa and Palmeiro. Maybe it's inconsistent.

[packs]

Amphetamines and scuffing a baseball or even using a spitter has nothing in common with steroids in my opinion. Steroids and HGH alter your body. They allow a player like Brady Anderson to hit 50 homers over night. A greenie isn't going to do that for anybody. Throwing a spitter doesn't give a guy a new arm either. Using HGH or steroids is in a different category for me.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by packs

Steroids and HGH alter your body. They allow a player like Brady Anderson to hit 50 homers over night.

So will a corked bat. Cheating is cheating.

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

So will a corked bat. Cheating is cheating.

turns out, it doesn't

http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/my...l-fly-farther/

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by bravos4evr

turns out, it doesn't

http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/my...l-fly-farther/

LOL, did you even scroll down and read the comments to your article?

Sure helped Sammy Sosa hit 66 in '98

[packs]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

So will a corked bat. Cheating is cheating.

I don't really see any relation between using a corked bat and using steroids. The discussion centers around comparing amphetamines and steroids/HGH.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by packs

I don't really see any relation between using a corked bat and using steroids. The discussion centers around comparing amphetamines and steroids/HGH.

Wrong, the discussion centers around cheating. Nice try though.

[packs]

There is a certain kind of cheating that is the issue with the two candidates. Altered equipment isn't really under consideration.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by packs

There is a certain kind of cheating that is the issue with the two candidates. Altered equipment isn't really under consideration.

The OPs question was whether or not the two should be in or out (the HOF). He never mentioned anything about steroids/HGH even though other brought it up. Others also brought up altering equipment. I stand behind my point which is cheating is cheating no matter what is used or how it's done. As usual, your full of BS.

[brian1961]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

There are no great answers here, particularly as I think doing whatever it takes to get an edge always has been and always will be part of sports, and I think it perhaps is unfair to ostracize those who got caught because there probably are equal numbers who used more discreetly.

It may not be entirely defensible, but I would say yes to Bonds and Clemens because they were top tier near certain HOFers before they (allegedly) used, or at least before the popular perception is of when they started. There are other guys whose numbers make them easy candidates but I don't care so much if they never get in, e.g. Sosa and Palmeiro. Maybe it's inconsistent.

Peter, I know what you say has merit, but the first thing I thought of when you mentioned Bonds and Clemens were top tier near certain HOFers before....., I thought of Joe Jackson, who also was a sure shot HOFer.

Time is fleeting, and it brings along a new crop of people to the BBWA, among who will cast their ballots each year, or whenever. Last I paid attention, things were inching higher for the juiced bad boys. Some say it will prove they're really OK, and enshrinement will be an end that justified their means. It certainly won't change my mind, and many others, one bit. If you're pleased as punch if that day arrives, well, you won't be alone, either.

As you intimated, I think we have gridlock.

---Brian Powell