eBay negative feedback

[Mdmtx]

Block away.

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by Mdmtx

Tripleplayvintagestore sorry for the miscommunication

Unless the two sellers are one and the same, I hope that you will go back and revise your previous posts calling out the wrong eBay seller.

[Mdmtx]

And to be clear I would return the card. I just expect the refund prior to my sending. I have read posts about people failing to refund, delaying refunds etc.. I'm not interested in relinquishing what little leverage I do have until he processes the refund. I will contact eBay and perform the return however they outline it.

And in response to pokerplayer, if you see no value in interest free loans please forward me as much cash as you can spare. The scenario I pointed out could be construed as a small ponzu scheme. If you had enough items to sell you could in fact role that into a large sum of money by way of interest free loan and use that money for a quick flip and then repay your accounts. Not saying this was done, but could be under the current system.

[Mdmtx]

Great point lance. Done.

[kmac32]

Looked at the listing and saw only a scan of the front of the card. I know that when I buy cards, I also want to see a scan of the back also. Is there a reason that you did not request one. If a seller does not send or post a back scan when requested, I do not bid.

[Mdmtx]

He graded it as vg/ex. I didn't feel I needed to see the back. In hind sight it would have simplified things if I would have asked. But with his statement of condition I felt I had enough information to understand the card condition. Vg/ex is an overstatement if written on.

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by Mdmtx

I just expect the refund prior to my sending.

That will never happen. Ebay does not require it, and no seller in their right mind would do so, regardless of whether they are honest or dishonest. It leaves the seller wide open to retribution by an already-disgruntled buyer.

Originally Posted by Mdmtx

I will contact eBay and perform the return however they outline it.

As said several times, eBay requires you to return the card for a refund. If you return the card, it is not up to the seller whether to refund your or not. When you file for the return, eBay/Paypal will freeze the funds in the seller's account, and release them back to you upon proof of delivery of the item back to the seller (so be sure you get tracking on the return shipment).

[Mdmtx]

Thanks for the info lance. Will do.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Mdmtx

And to be clear I would return the card. I just expect the refund prior to my sending. I have read posts about people failing to refund, delaying refunds etc.. I'm not interested in relinquishing what little leverage I do have until he processes the refund. I will contact eBay and perform the return however they outline it.

And in response to pokerplayer, if you see no value in interest free loans please forward me as much cash as you can spare. The scenario I pointed out could be construed as a small ponzu scheme. If you had enough items to sell you could in fact role that into a large sum of money by way of interest free loan and use that money for a quick flip and then repay your accounts. Not saying this was done, but could be under the current system.

There is value in an interest free loan. There is no value in taking the time and expense to ship a 40 dollar card, or even a 400 dollar card for a short term loan. The few bucks that the shipping costs instantly make this idea unprofitable. Even if you don't value the time and shipping and packing the card only cost 2 dollars you would need a 5% return in less than a month. Your argument does not make sense to me. Nor does expecting a refund before returning a card.

[kmac32]

Originally Posted by Mdmtx

He graded it as vg/ex. I didn't feel I needed to see the back. In hind sight it would have simplified things if I would have asked. But with his statement of condition I felt I had enough information to understand the card condition. Vg/ex is an overstatement if written on.

I guess I do not take anyone at their word when it comes to ebay. I would rather make my own judgement before bidding. VG/ex in one person's opinion may be something completely different in my opinion. Scans of both sides of the card leave no room for deception and everyone is protected.

[Mdmtx]

We will have to agree to disagree here with regard to the loan value. But, I will admit my insistence of refund first is odd. The issue arises from the delay in response, the appearance that the ad was deceptive (especially after closer scrutiny of the sellers feedback) and previous posts here on net54 about other sellers delaying refunds. If I ship the card and usps fails to deliver, then what? I didn't ask to be in this predicament. I purchased a card that was graded vg/ex by the seller. He failed to deliver that. Now due to his failure I am required to be out my money at least 2 weeks. Make a trip to the post office and have additional unreimbursed expenses, assume the risk of delivery by the mail service - this all stems from the deceptive ad the seller placed. If that sounds fair to you then I am obviously confused, because it sounds like I have been rewarded with extra effort, expense and risk because the seller was deceptive. Now please block me if I seem harsh in my critique because if you defend that type of deal I have no desire to buy anything from you. eBay ID Mkmtx

Mark Medlin

[mechanicalman]

I do not wish to comment on the OP's situation, as I think a lot has been said already. However, the conversation prompts a question I'd like to pose to those interested in this subject.

If there was a similar situation where you receive a card that's not as described (call it a card with a crease that was described as EX) and you go through the traditional channels to send it back and you receive a full refund, do you then give negative feedback? Or do you give positive feedback because the seller returned your money? Neutral? No feedback at all?

Personally, I haven't had this happen (except receiving an EMPTY package once), but I would certainly not provide positive feedback for anyone who wastes my time and money (in return shipping). At the risk of being banned by half the sellers on this board, I think I'd lean toward neutral or negative if the seller was not fast and courteous. Wondering how others might rate this.

[pokerplyr80]

It's unfortunate that you have to spend the time and money to return the card but that's just the way it is. I've had to do it before. It's the risk we run buying raw cards online. I certainly wouldn't buy from the seller again and would request a back scan before making a purchase decision in the future.

The alternative of forcing a seller to refund with no guarantee they would get their card back is worse, in my opinion, than forcing a buyer to take the time to return the card. Think of the problems that would arise if this was the case.

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

If there was a similar situation where you receive a card that's not as described (call it a card with a crease that was described as EX) and you go through the traditional channels to send it back and you receive a full refund, do you then give negative feedback? Or do you give positive feedback because the seller returned your money? Neutral? No feedback at all?

There's not a one-size-fits-all response for this situation. It would depend on the circumstances of the omission of the flaw, and how the seller reacted when it was brought to their attention.

Feedback is meant to give an overall evaluation of the transaction experience, not to be a punitive sharpened stick with which to goad the other party to your desired outcome. It is entirely possible to receive an item not-as-described and, depending on how the seller handled the issue, leave a justified positive feedback. It is also possible to have a seller be such an incredible a-hole about the issue that nothing other than a neg will do, even if all your money is refunded along with the return shipping cost.

To me, there are actual mistakes and oversights that, while regrettable, do not require retribution. If the seller does their part to remain civil and unwind the transaction in such a situation, I'm more likely to leave a pos or not leave feedback at all, and save the negs and neutrals for those sellers who go out of their way to make a bad situation worse.

[Mdmtx]

I agree with that statement pokerplayer. I feel that a improper and/or deceptive sales ad should be viewed differently than a normal return. I would view a normal return as usually an error by the purchaser or 3rd party(shipping company). When the fault is clearly with the seller, I feel the burden should also lie with the seller. I am not contending that my stance is in compliance with the policy of the store (eBay) or seller, but rather just venting a little. One of the issues that was left out is the time to find, watch and bid on the item and the fact that others past by when I selected to pursue this one. I know it's a small value item. I know I sound petty. But I'm tired of the tail wagging the dog. It's not the first time I've encountered this type of deal. I have been highly disappointed numerous times upon receipt of items. I usually just leave positive feedback and move on assuming it was an honest mistake. I just think it's time to quit settling for this type behavior. Sorry for the 2 day rant. Thanks for listening.

[chaddurbin]

this thread is funny, and completely unnecessary. you must've saw he had 88 negs the last year before deciding to bid with him. it shouldn't surprise you at all that the card was not as advertised. just return it and move on.

buyers should take some responsibility in the transaction process also, you can't feign ignorance here. and then to make a mountain out of a mole hill, i don't blame people here for blocking you at all.

[Mdmtx]

Chad, you are right. I should have ignored the 24,900 positive comments and his grade of vg/ex. Get real. We aren't discussing a mild hair line hard to see crease. I would understand that. We are discussing writing on the back. And rather large writing at that. So as a buyer I am supposed to overlook his grading and his near 25,000 feedback. Wake up.

Mark Medlin

[rhettyeakley]

This seems like quite an ordeal over a $40 card.

It is far riskier for a seller to refund before item being returned (and just hope that the item someday gets back to them) than the buyer to return the item and then work through ebay to get their refund. To expect the prior from a seller is absolutely & completely one sided, I am guessing that you are not a seller at all because it doesn't seem like you can see things from other perspectives at all and see things only from your point of view. It's okay you aren't alone in this world, how you can function in society without constant clashes with people you meet on a daily basis with that mentality is what astounds me.

I guess you are trying to make some kind of a point and are trying to paint yourself as some sort of victim of a sellers purposeful nefarious practice, when in reality they could have missed the writing and made an honest mistake, especially if they have employees that they work with that may not be professional dealers (something you never possibly could have done, I'm sure). Re-send them their card, get the refund, and get on with life... crisis averted.

**Side-Note**
As a seller of raw cards one of the biggest mistakes you can make is writing what the condition of the card is in your opinion, throw up some oversized scans and let people take responsibility for themselves. This will not avoid all problems but usually does the trick.

[Mdmtx]

Thank you for the personal insults Rhett.

[Mdmtx]

You are also mistaken. I do sell on eBay. I do get through life fine with my interpersonal relationships. I'm glad you had the ability to sum up my past history and my personality from a few posts where I feel like I was wronged. It must be fascinating to have the level of clarity.

[rhettyeakley]

Where was the personal insult? I must have missed that.

You seem to have all the answers so feel free to disregard my post like you have every other poster thus far.

[Mdmtx]

I haven't disregarded a single post. If you read back you will see that I admitted I was likely being petty. But to assume a buyer is less trustworthy than a seller? Another poster suggested the buyer assumes responsibility? Really? Why is everyone upset about maestro then? Why do we care about the auction houses and transparency if it's all buyer beware. I feel like this was obvious deception. I am a fairly serious buyer of cards. Almost 1k this week on net54, 1500 or so on eBay in the past week or so. 500 on a Facebook site. 800 at the recent Huggins and Scott. This is not my sop. I feel the seller was deceptive. Now I am supposed to trust him with the return? I agree it is a small dollar amount, at what amount does deception become important? Or is it only important when it happens to you? I have taken a lot of my time to make these posts. I guess either I have not articulated well or as a second option, several of you feel it's ok to over grade, misrepresent, and most importantly buyers can't be trusted and 40 dollar deals don't matter. I'm done talking about it.

[rhettyeakley]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1955-BOWMAN-...p2047675.l2557

I wonder if they were upset they didn't get a football card or a card made by Bowman?

Honestly Mark, I don't really have a problem with you and am not going to block you or anything like that. As a buyer and seller on ebay I thought your initial posts were demanding and strange but we are all strange (we collect baseball cards). I probably shouldn't have posted the link above but I thought it was kinda funny and a bit ironic even though I know you weren't trying to deceive and you do have good pictures of the Carroll card.

[Buythatcard]

After reading some of the negative reviews that this Seller has, I can see why the OP did not trust him.

It just that you need to follow the correct eBay channels when returning the card. If the seller does not follow up with a refund, then you let eBay step in and at that point you should leave a negative. eBay is very good when it comes to refunding money to buyers who have gone thru all the correct channels. But looking at the Seller's history, another negative would not matter to him. I am surprised (not really) that he is even allowed to sell on eBay.

I just think this negative should not have been given until you filed a claim.

[kmac32]

To be honest about it, why is this thread even on the front page of the board. Seems like it is a dispute between a buyer and seller and has very little to do with vintage cards especially Prewar cards. Follow eBay policies and move on would be my honest opinion vs airing a grievance here that cannot be solved here. Just a thought.

[slidekellyslide]

Good lord. Dude, file a claim and request a shipping label. All you have to do is print the label, pack the card back up, slap the label on the package and put it in your mailbox. When it arrives the mailman scans it as delivered and ebay refunds your money. No money out of your pocket at all, unless you're going to bitch about the half cents worth of tape you have to use to pack it back up.

leaving a negative because he wouldn't refund you BEFORE you sent the card back is just idiotic.

edited to add: I just looked at this seller's feedback and he has 89 negatives in the past 12 months. Almost every single one of them is for a disagreement in grade.

[Leon]

I like to look at histories of sellers. This seller has a lot of feedback but a lot of negatives and neutrals. I have never seen that many negs and neutrals from a really good seller. On the point of refunds, buyers always have to return first according to ebay policy. And it works fine if you use the system..

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAP...ab=AllFeedback

.

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Good lord. Dude, file a claim and request a shipping label. All you have to do is print the label, pack the card back up, slap the label on the package and put it in your mailbox. When it arrives the mailman scans it as delivered and ebay refunds your money. No money out of your pocket at all, unless you're going to bitch about the half cents worth of tape you have to use to pack it back up.

leaving a negative because he wouldn't refund you BEFORE you sent the card back is just idiotic.

edited to add: I just looked at this seller's feedback and he has 89 negatives in the past 12 months. Almost every single one of them is for a disagreement in grade.

[tschock]

Originally Posted by Leon

I like to look at histories of sellers. This seller has a lot of feedback but a lot of negatives and neutrals. I have never seen that many negs and neutrals from a really good seller. On the point of refunds, buyers always have to return first according to ebay policy. And it works fine if you use the system..

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAP...ab=AllFeedback

.

I always look beyond the raw numbers as well (and you may be implying that). If a sell has 15 negs in the past month, but they were all from the same buyer (and maybe the same transaction for multiple cards), I try to understand why they gave a neg and see if that jives with others or if the buyer was just being a PITA.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by tschock

I always look beyond the raw numbers as well (and you may be implying that). If a sell has 15 negs in the past month, but they were all from the same buyer (and maybe the same transaction for multiple cards), I try to understand why they gave a neg and see if that jives with others or if the buyer was just being a PITA.

Absolutely. There could be an explanation for negatives. I clicked on their negatives.

[Iwantmorecards77]

Just an update on my (somewhat similar) situation brought up earlier in this thread (I held off a bit so not to interfere with the original topic):

I'm still being hounded ("harassed") about a partial refund. I called eBay for assistance on how to handle this. The helpful employee looked at all of our messages and my stated return policy. He said I am not obligated to offer a partial refund and that I am following the stated return policy. He said if the buyer doesn't send it back - that's his decision. He may very well leave negative feedback (probably will.) If the buyer opens a return case - eBay will instruct him to return the card for a full refund - which is exactly what I have offered (going on 4 or 5 times.)

The messages from him have been threatening and he is accusing me of deceiving him - and also stated that if I re-sold the card, I "probably won't note the surface flaw." Well, there's only one way to find out - send it back! Haha

I know some sellers offer partial refunds. I sold the card for $202. The buyer takes 2 weeks to pay - then notices a surface flaw. I offered an immediate refund but it was declined. Then he wanted to return it - but changes his mind again. I do not feel that he should keep the card and get the $100 back that he's asking for. Plus - there is no policy stating I should have to. If it's defective - send it back like most sellers would offer.

I have stuck to my guns (the stated return policy) and have kept my messages polite and have not responded to his accusations and negativity - though that is getting him even more upset.

I realize he wanted to get the card signed. That's fine - but it's my job as a seller to follow policy and make sure any defective items are refunded, upon safe return. Having the card signed would change the situation, for sure - pretty much ending the transaction.

[TheNightmanCometh]

Originally Posted by Leon

I like to look at histories of sellers. This seller has a lot of feedback but a lot of negatives and neutrals. I have never seen that many negs and neutrals from a really good seller. On the point of refunds, buyers always have to return first according to ebay policy. And it works fine if you use the system..

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAP...ab=AllFeedback

.

I raise you...

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAP...30.m2531.l4585

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by TheNightmanCometh

I raise you...

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAP...30.m2531.l4585

I know we've had enough battlefield discussions on this board. But how is a seller that has received over 100 negative feedback ratings in 12 months a top rated seller?

[TheNightmanCometh]

It's all based on percentage. Battlefield sells so many cards that even 100 negs doesn't effect her overall rating. I mean it does, just not enough to effect the percentage.