What the hate site says about Todd

[shelly]

Just after the write up about Todd on this site took place look what the hate site had to say about him.


As an observer Todd Mueller built his career on honesty and integrity.
Everyone who has dealt with Todd, including Steve Cyrkin, has stated he has been honest through his entire 30 plus year
career in his love and honesty in this hobby. I see he has always handled
his customers well giving them refunds even when they were not due.
Until recently, Todd has dealt with R&R, Reznikoff, Heritage and many other companies who begged him for his consignments and business. Todd continuingly made the press with positive news and continues to do so today. But all of a sudden a failure named Steve Cyrkin, in the
autograph business who owns a blog claims Todd
Mueller is no longer good. Why? Because Todd was the last to quit
advertising in Cyrkin’s magazine. Todd as well as others discovered Cyrkin was dealing heavily in forged autographs.

Todd Mueller was recognized by the hobby as being an expert long before Cyrkin entered the autograph hobby. Todd’s expertise was discovered and recognized world wide when he proved John Reznikoff blew it big time in front of 6 million viewers on the popular TV show Pawn Stars.
In addition, Todd Mueller proved Reznikoff/Spence & Guiterriez were lousy at authenticating Babe Ruth when
he purposely listed a pre-printed book and they all claimed the
legitimate signatures were fake. Todd’s intention was not to
embarrass these alleged experts. What he did was once again prove he knew and they didn’t. The hobby realizes they now attack him regularly like rabid dogs in anger for they look so foolish.

It’s very sad that this once wonderful hobby is so blemished by a handful that insist on protecting the forgers and fraudsters in this hobby. We guess it’s called an attempt at self preservation.

How sweet and gentle. I would have thought they where writng about Gandhi. If you noticed at the end it went from I to we.


Last edited by shelly; Today at 12:05 PM.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by shelly

Just after the write up about Todd on this site took place look what the hate site had to say about him.


As an observer Todd Mueller built his career on honesty and integrity.
Everyone who has dealt with Todd, including Steve Cyrkin, has stated he has been honest through his entire 30 plus year
career in his love and honesty in this hobby. I see he has always handled
his customers well giving them refunds even when they were not due.
Until recently, Todd has dealt with R&R, Reznikoff, Heritage and many other companies who begged him for his consignments and business. Todd continuingly made the press with positive news and continues to do so today. But all of a sudden a failure named Steve Cyrkin, in the
autograph business who owns a blog claims Todd
Mueller is no longer good. Why? Because Todd was the last to quit
advertising in Cyrkin’s magazine. Todd as well as others discovered Cyrkin was dealing heavily in forged autographs.

Todd Mueller was recognized by the hobby as being an expert long before Cyrkin entered the autograph hobby. Todd’s expertise was discovered and recognized world wide when he proved John Reznikoff blew it big time in front of 6 million viewers on the popular TV show Pawn Stars.
In addition, Todd Mueller proved Reznikoff/Spence & Guiterriez were lousy at authenticating Babe Ruth when
he purposely listed a pre-printed book and they all claimed the
legitimate signatures were fake. Todd’s intention was not to
embarrass these alleged experts. What he did was once again prove he knew and they didn’t. The hobby realizes they now attack him regularly like rabid dogs in anger for they look so foolish.

It’s very sad that this once wonderful hobby is so blemished by a handful that insist on protecting the forgers and fraudsters in this hobby. We guess it’s called an attempt at self preservation.

How sweet and gentle. I would have thought they where writng about Gandhi. If you noticed at the end it went from I to we.


Last edited by shelly; Today at 12:05 PM.

Shelly, please tell me what about this statement about Todd is not true???

[shelly]

I will answere that with a question. Please tell me what was wrong about was written about Chris?

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by shelly

I will answere that with a question. Please tell me what was wrong about was written about Chris?

you posted it and brought it here, i did not, and has anyone went on record saying they believe the other article? if the article on mueller is true in your mind, then whats your point? you brought it here. I brought nothing from another site, but everyone is so interested in me, I am impressed.

[shelly]

Of all the people that could have come up here you proved what Chris said about you. You are in his camp.

[mighty bombjack]

Who gives a crapwhat that site says? It has zero credibility on any level.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by shelly

Of all the people that could have come up here you proved what Chris said about you. You are in his camp.

I am Todd Mueller's friend, so what? I didn't read what chris said about me.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by mighty bombjack

Who gives a crapwhat that site says? It has zero credibility on any level.

so why are the two people who brought articles they are sure aren't true, from that site to here, distracting the rest of us from the autograph hobby, shelly and mr. zipper?

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by travrosty

so why are the two people who brought articles from that site to here, distracting the rest of us from the autograph hobby, shelly and mr. zipper?

Well, considering that one of the articles from that joke of a site happened to be an awful smear campaign against one of the regular posters here, and further considering the same site is currently lavishing praise on your friend, I can see plenty of connection that a critical thinker might make. I just wish that this thread had been made as part of the other thread so that this ridiculousness (that I am actually quite enjoying) could be contained to a single thread that was started to discuss an autograph dealer.

[mighty bombjack]

I don't know about the veracity of any statement on that garbage site, but I have learned that I will never touch an autograph that has a provenance going through this Todd Mueller dude.

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by mighty bombjack

i don't know about the veracity of any statement on that garbage site, but i have learned that i will never touch an autograph that has a provenance going through this todd mueller dude.

Completely agree. The blogging was the ultimate backfire.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by travrosty

Shelly, please tell me what about this statement about Todd is not true???

His being honest, Travis. (Or do you think cutting up the Karloff/Frye FDC and selling the forged autographs individually was an honest act?)

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

His being honest, Travis. (Or do you think cutting up the Karloff/Frye FDC and selling the forged autographs individually was an honest act?)

I doubt there will be a legitimate answer for this. IMO.. this example is the most damning and credible David.

[earlywynnfan]

Shelly, you know that quote from Einstein about doing the same thing over and over? Well you, my friend, are crazy if you think you are going to get a straight answer from Travis. Please stop trying.

Ken

[shelly]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

Shelly, you know that quote from Einstein about doing the same thing over and over? Well you, my friend, are crazy if you think you are going to get a straight answer from Travis. Please stop trying.

Ken

Ken, I never thought he would tell the truth.



I did want to show the comparison on just how they wrote about two people. One with so much hate it made the site smell.



Then came the perfect person Todd(harps playing)


It was like reading someone's obituary. Not a bad thing was said. It was written in such a way I thought they where talking about some holy man.



"Todd’s expertise was discovered and recognized world wide." I truly hope we have not offended the world wide community.


I also found it interesting that it took more than one person to tell us just how wonderful Todd is. Please explain these two remarks."As an observer" at beginning of the page and this at the end "We guess it’s called an attempt at self preservation."

[johnmh71]

Originally Posted by shelly

Of all the people that could have come up here you proved what Chris said about you. You are in his camp.

Travis - Have you ever seen a picture of a fish dangling from a hook? That's you right now. You couldn't help but bite the bait that shelly laid out.

[daves_resale_shop]

Guys,

What is this other "hate" site that you are referring to?

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by daves_resale_shop

Guys,

What is this other "hate" site that you are referring to?

Oy.

[thetruthisoutthere]

The acronym for that site is ANL.

It should be CAU (Cowards Are Us).

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by mighty bombjack

I don't know about the veracity of any statement on that garbage site, but I have learned that I will never touch an autograph that has a provenance going through this Todd Mueller dude.

PLUS 1,000,000..... Nice to know someone gets it......

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

His being honest, Travis. (Or do you think cutting up the Karloff/Frye FDC and selling the forged autographs individually was an honest act?)

David, I'm sure this is just one of many of the ways Todd "the Snake" Mueller operates and if you don't know anything about the clown, this should tell you all you need to know about the character of that putrid dealer and scum of a man.

Great business model, horrible character with ZERO integrity who hides behind god to do their dirty work....Worse kind of person in this world who does that. IMHO

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

Shelly, you know that quote from Einstein about doing the same thing over and over? Well you, my friend, are crazy if you think you are going to get a straight answer from Travis. Please stop trying.

Ken

No s***, Analogy Boy has a horrible personality disorder and let's just leave it at that. I wish he's shave his head and start a rock pile.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

No s***, Analogy Boy has a horrible personality disorder and let's just leave it at that. I wish he's shave his head and start a rock pile.

the title of this thread is partially right, there is a hat site out there, it's name is autograph margarine live. which i believe several of you blog and rant and rave.

that site is a site where i have never seen such manipulations and manipulators in my entire life.

no one has any proof whatsoever who puts up any article so they like to pile on me. all todd mueller has ever done is try to clean up the crazy hobby and lots of people like to protect the TPA's from any criticism and it will continue until the tpa's straighten up, either by choice or by force.

but you keep throwing up these red herrings to distract people. there is a forgery side of the industry, a side I have never known or associated with, but can everyone say that?

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by travrosty

all todd mueller has ever done is try to clean up the crazy hobby and lots of people like to protect the TPA's from any criticism and it will continue until the tpa's straighten up, either by choice or by force.

Ummmm...if all he's ever done is try to clean up the hobby how do you explain cutting up that first day cover and selling the autos separately?

[cubsfan-budman]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Ummmm...if all he's ever done is try to clean up the hobby how do you explain cutting up that first day cover and selling the autos separately?

just a question: is there any chance that the 2 autos were actually legit? i have a feeling that any good dealer would take back any autograph if their customer wasn't satisfied...but if the dealer is convinced that the auto(s) are genuine, they would resell. dave atkatz may have had his concerns about the legitimacy of the autos, but he might not have been correct.

basically, just because someone asks for and receives a refund for an autograph that the buyer suspects is fake, that doesn't logically follow that it necessarily IS fake.

right?

[packs]

In the signature an actor who played a role in the film mis-identified his own role. Maybe that happens. Maybe it doesn't.

As the poster pointed out the envelope was issued after one of the actors had died.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by cubsfan-budman

just a question: is there any chance that the 2 autos were actually legit? i have a feeling that any good dealer would take back any autograph if their customer wasn't satisfied...but if the dealer is convinced that the auto(s) are genuine, they would resell. dave atkatz may have had his concerns about the legitimacy of the autos, but he might not have been correct.

basically, just because someone asks for and receives a refund for an autograph that the buyer suspects is fake, that doesn't logically follow that it necessarily IS fake.

right?

The autographs were fake. I showed the exemplars from which they were copied.

Hmmm... Let's see... The FDC was issued a year after Dwight Frye died. Frye mis-identified his most famous character. Identical examples exist--ripe for the copying on a single catalog page, and the lack of a character name for Frye easily explains the inappropriate "Igor." Meuller, who supposedly believes the FDC is genuine, destroys it to produce two less valuable cuts. And, finally, when confronted--twice--with the evidence of forgery, issues refunds.

Why in the world would anyone think--even for an instant--the FDC was genuine?

[cubsfan-budman]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

The autographs were fake. I showed the exemplars from which they were copied.

Hmmm... Let's see... The FDC was issued a year after Dwight Frye died. Frye mis-identified his most famous character. Identical examples exist--ripe for the copying on a single catalog page, and the lack of a character name for Frye easily explains the inappropriate "Igor." Meuller, who supposedly believes the FDC is genuine, destroys it to produce two less valuable cuts. And, finally, when confronted--twice--with the evidence of forgery, issues refunds.

Why in the world would anyone think--even for an instant--the FDC was genuine?

word up. was just asking/wondering.

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

The autographs were fake. I showed the exemplars from which they were copied.

Hmmm... Let's see... The FDC was issued a year after Dwight Frye died. Frye mis-identified his most famous character. Identical examples exist--ripe for the copying on a single catalog page, and the lack of a character name for Frye easily explains the inappropriate "Igor." Meuller, who supposedly believes the FDC is genuine, destroys it to produce two less valuable cuts. And, finally, when confronted--twice--with the evidence of forgery, issues refunds.

Why in the world would anyone think--even for an instant--the FDC was genuine?

I'm not defending or trying to argue, but you posted a link that shows "the exemplars from which they were copied." This was an auto'd page. Can you shed some light on how you know your exemplar wasn't the copy??

Again, not trying to say the FDC was legit.

Ken

[David Atkatz]

Because Frye didn't sign an FDC a year after he died.

[cubsfan-budman]

Why in the world would anyone think--even for an instant--the FDC was genuine?

Didn't you buy it in the first place? Seems like you thought it was genuine...?

[David Atkatz]

You're right. It was genuine.

Todd's "da man."

[cubsfan-budman]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

You're right. It was genuine.

Todd's "da man."

Cool, whatever. Just seems like your words and your actions are at odds.

No one could believe it was real even for "an instant", but you held onto it for "a few months".

[David Atkatz]

Once I saw the RR catalog page, I was on the phone to Mueller in thirty seconds.

And, additionally, if you believe a signed artifact is genuine, you don't cut it up.

But, as I said, you're right. It was real.

[JT]

Food for thought.

Many first day covers are sold before the actual event or whatever these are commemorating, thus this FDC could have been issued before Frye died.

Stamps are also sold before the first "Official" issue.

Cancellations can be added weeks, months, or a good amount of time after the event by the USPS.

The FDC in question here could have been sold and signed by Frye before he died and the cancellation added later.

Not starting anything, just that the issue here is not 100% accurate.

[David Atkatz]

Yeah. It was genuine. That's why Mueller cut it up.

BTW. When Frye died, he was virtually unknown. Hadn't had an acting job in a while, and was working as a tool maker in an aircraft plant. So it isn't very likely that some fan found one of the as-yet-unreleased FDCs, and had Frye sign it. With the wrong character name. You know. The name that didn't enter common parlance as the mad doctor's assistant until many years later.

But what am I saying? The FDC was real.

[cubsfan-budman]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Yeah. It was genuine. That's why Mueller cut it up.

BTW. When Frye died, he was virtually unknown. Hadn't had an acting job in a while, and was working as a tool maker in an aircraft plant. So it isn't very likely that some fan found one of the as-yet-unreleased FDCs, and had Frye sign it. With the wrong character name. You know. The name that didn't enter common parlance as the mad doctor's assistant until many years later.

But what am I saying? The FDC was real.

I think its interesting that there were so many "glaring" issues with these autos...i mean NO ONE could reasonably believe they were real, yet you still bought it and held onto it for a few months.

Maybe the FDC in question never existed at all...

[David Atkatz]

You're probably right. I made the whole thing up.

Of course, I did post scans of both the FDC, and the RR Auction catalog page, and I do still have the Mueller auction catalog. But they're all most likely just figments of my over-active imagination. So, never mind.

[David Atkatz]

This was posted in the "help with an authenticator" thread.
(It might have been nice if you actually saw this before commenting, cubsfan.)


Here's the FDC:



And here's the catalog page:



Note that the Karloff is identical. The Frye is almost identical--there are two differences. On the cover the inscription is to Saul (on the RR piece it's to Sam), and the character name "Igor" has been added to the FDC. My interpretation is that in order to match the Karloff--mentioning his most famous character--the forger had Frye mention his character in the movie. Now, most people think of Dr. Frankenstein's hunchbacked assistant as "Igor," but in actuality, the character Frye played was called "Fritz." Frye would certainly have known that!

The kicker, though, is the date of cancellation on the FDC--Halloween, 1944. Frye died on November 7, 1943.

When I saw this piece in Mueller's auction catalog, I noticed the disparity in dates immediately. I called Mueller, and he told me a cock-and-bull story about the cover being signed well in advance of the cancellation date.

I fell for it, and ignored the "Igor" discrepancy as well. Why? It was the usual collector's malady. I wanted the piece to be real.

So, about a year later, after posting the cover on the net, I was contacted by a fellow horror collector who sent me the RR page. I presented this to Mueller. He assured me the cover was real, and told me he would refund my money, and cut the autographs apart (to obviate the postmark problem), and sell them.

A few years later, I noticed the Frye signature being offered on eBay. I contacted the seller, presented all the information, except where I had obtained the cover. I asked him where he got the autograph. Yep, that's right.

(He got his money back from Mueller, too.)

[Runscott]

.........exiting

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by JT

Food for thought.

Many first day covers are sold before the actual event or whatever these are commemorating, thus this FDC could have been issued before Frye died.

Stamps are also sold before the first "Official" issue.

Cancellations can be added weeks, months, or a good amount of time after the event by the USPS.

Me being completely ignorant of FDC's and how they are/were issued and distributed, what kind of range are we talking here? I could see them being printed up weeks or even months before the "First Day of Issue" event, especially "back in the day" when distribution of the physical envelopes would have taken longer, but surely the lapse between printing and cancellation wouldn't have been more than a couple of months? Or is there something that I'm overlooking in the process? I'm not trying to cast judgement on either side of the argument, but just looking for a typical range for future reference.

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by JT

Many first day covers are sold before the actual event or whatever these are commemorating, thus this FDC could have been issued before Frye died.

Stamps are also sold before the first "Official" issue.

Cancellations can be added weeks, months, or a good amount of time after the event by the USPS.

Sometimes blank envelopes are signed and a rubber stamp cachet and postmark is added at a later date. You see this often with astronauts. An envelope is signed and then later postmarked the day of the launch or moon landing.

But the item is question is not a rubber stamp cachet -- it is a cachet printed on the envelope at the time of initial printing and dated 1944. Does anyone seriously think this postal cover dated 1944 was available, sent to a star, and signed prior to November 1943?

Further, I do not believe the post office ever pre- or post-dates a postal cancellation. The date on the cancel is the date it was stamped. If this is not true, I'd like to see a reference proving otherwise.

So we are left to believe that a series of highly unlikely occurrences happened with the postal cancellation and printing of the envelope, or the signature is fake.

Occam's razor.

[shelly]

I find it amazing that people can question something so bad and try and to make it authentic. You can not sign something dated a year after your dead.
I think that would be a dead giveaway no pun intended.

[Runscott]

I have never physically met any of you, and have only been talking autographs here for about a year, so I can say this without too much hypocrisy. I see the following reasons for nonsensical behavior towards sellers, auction houses and bloggers. All make perfect sense to me, because they involve money and/or emotion. I have to admit, I'm guilty of the third one every now and then, and in 'real' life I'm guilty of the first one, and I suspect I'm not the only one

• the person is your friend, so you make excuses for their illegal/unethical behavior
• the person provides part of your income, whether it be through advertising or buying stuff from you
• the person sells you stuff that you need for your collection
• the person pissed you off, but otherwise you have no proof of illegal behavior

[shelly]

Scott you forgot one,

The person pissed you off because he denies selling bad stuff and you can prove it.

[Runscott]

Shelly, I was only listing reasons for behavior that doesn't make sense to squeaky-clean people