Kevin Saucier - Adding Value

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Posted By: JimCrandell

JimB,

Well anytime Jim that I don't like one of your questions I know how to silence you--mention that you belong to the ultra-secretive, elite card collectors society called LTS--apparrantly so elite that even Kevin's application was rejected--whew--whaddaya gotta do to get in this elite organization if they won't let in a guy who has done so much to advance the hobby.

I wonder if Rob Lifson applied if they would let him in?
Or Keith Olberman? Hmmm.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Larry--I agree.

My condolences.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Jim- on what basis does LTS accept or reject people? Isn't it just a chatboard? The whole concept is goofy.

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Posted By: Frank Evanov

"Never bought a graded card from Gary but did buy a lot of ungraded cards from him--not one card he sold me ever was rejected. If he did turn into a card Doctor it was not during this period."

Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings Jim, but Gary was a card doctor from day 1. He also sold me several raw cards. Some got graded.....the ones that were rejected by PSA, he sent in again and they were eventually slabbed. I have since gotten rid of all the cards I bought from him. I advise you to do the same.




Frank

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Posted By: Steve

Jim

You know all the answers to your questions regarding LTS. Why bring them up?

kevin left on his own, you were once a member.

So surely you know how one gets in.


Steve

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Frank,

Disagree--in fact Dave Forman swore to me Gary never Doctored cards during this period--we are talking late 80s-early 90s here.

Barry,

First of all you need to show you have a net worth of at least $1 million. Also going to the right school is very important--preferably Harvard or Yale--I know that is how Marc Schoenen got in who posts here. However Marc is now out I understand as they were not pleased he did not go into consulting or investment banking.
Frank is a member--they let him in even though being a dentist is not what they usually prefer--it was suspected that he gave a payoff to the president(aka supreme leader)to get in although this has never been proven. After he got to the top of the PSA Set Registry in 1957 Topps they let him stay.
They threw me out because I didn't get to 100 graded sets fast enough and I was bringing down the organization.
Perhaps they will reconsider and let Kevin in if he is a smashing success in his new venture--if not, his chances do not appear strong.

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Posted By: GoSoxBoSox

Jim,

You're an idiot. You can't leave well enough alone.

LTS isn't secretive at all for those that don't know about it. We just try to keep it friendly there so we don't let just anyone in. Jim can't help make up crap about LTS because he's been given the boot twice because he can't keep it freindly. Anyone who frequents N54 can clearly see how he rubs people the wrong way.

LTS is just a sportscard chat forum. We don't claim to be anything else and new members are always joining.

Tom Papa

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Posted By: Tom Nieves

Gary and Gerry

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Posted By: GoSoxBoSox

What the hell are you talking about?

I doubt half the memebers have that networth. You'r e a liar too I see. But I have known that a long time.

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Posted By: Steve

Lmao barry i am a member there. I'm broke (not really) and according to JK I am an illiterate.

Maybe I am the token broke dope?


Possibly.

Steve


Edited to add: While Frank can speak for himself (eloquently too for that matter) he is no dentist. I believe he is a gastro med dr.


I got in and I didn't go to Yale. I went to school of hard knocks. lol

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Posted By: pas

Tom and Steve, Jim is just joking around with you guys about the net worth thing, can't you see that?

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Posted By: barrysloate

This thread is starting to get a little cranky, and Leon is off somewhere gorging himself on chili. Let's all try to be a little civil.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Tom,

Have a sense of humor....geez-- I thought I only got kicked out once.
I resigned the other time.

You really are troubled by my jokes?

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Peter,

These LTS guys are serious--you never know--they may think people believe that you need a Harvard or Yale degree.

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Posted By: Steve

Peter of course I see it. lol

Steve

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Posted By: GoSoxBoSox

I've been reading about us being a "secret society" and anything else you feel like throwing around for almost 4 years now.

None of what you say is true and many (like Barry) took some of what you say as truth.

If I made jokes about you to people that didn't know better you wouldn't like it. Keep up your end of our deal please.

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Posted By: Sean C

Would it count if you went to visit some friends at Harvard, or would cut through the yard on the way to visit your girlfriend?


JimCrandell
(Login Davalillo) Re: Kevin Saucier - Adding Value November 18 2007, 8:47 PM


Frank,

Disagree--in fact Dave Forman swore to me Gary never Doctored cards during this period--we are talking late 80s-early 90s here.

Barry,

First of all you need to show you have a net worth of at least $1 million. Also going to the right school is very important--preferably Harvard or Yale--I know that is how Marc Schoenen got in who posts here. However Marc is now out I understand as they were not pleased he did not go into consulting or investment banking.
Frank is a member--they let him in even though being a dentist is not what they usually prefer--it was suspected that he gave a payoff to the president(aka supreme leader)to get in although this has never been proven. After he got to the top of the PSA Set Registry in 1957 Topps they let him stay.
They threw me out because I didn't get to 100 graded sets fast enough and I was bringing down the organization.
Perhaps they will reconsider and let Kevin in if he is a smashing success in his new venture--if not, his chances do not appear strong.

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Posted By: Steve

Jim

Did you quit the first time or second time? if you quit the second time you too can get a vote.


lol


ok ok Barry is right this thread has now gone beyond what it was intended for.

Steve

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Posted By: GoSoxBoSox

He quit the second time (technically) because I told him the boot was right around the corner. I told him to change or else. So he quit.

I know one thing. I just had back surgery so I'll be laid-up next to my laptop for the next 4 weeks with nothing else to do but argue with Jim if thats what he wants. Time to address the lies and the jokes.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Steve,

I quit the first time--then I rejoined. Then Tom threw me out but I thought we were friends again.

Looks like I could never get a vote--heck if Kevin can't get in I am far more confrontational than him. I will have to consult with Peter on this--whoops--he is out too.

Its not clear to me though if it is a secret who is a member--i don't think so which is why I mentioned names.

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Posted By: John

I rarely post on these boards- though I have lurked for years. I remember jim and his ‘cleaning up the hobby’ crusade of several years ago on the PSA boards. The issue I have w/discussions like this is that a lot of accusations are hurled. Examples are- I know some guy who is one of the top card doctors in ohio (or any other state)- oh yeah, I know that guy too, but no one will disclose THAT guy’s name; oh yeah, I know there a lot of altered cards in grading co. A, B, C, and/or D holders- oh yeah, I know that too b/c I heard it from some guy who heard it from another guy at a show. These stories all make for interesting reading (or more time to waste on message boards?), but no one ever seems to provide CONCRETE PROOF- e.g., show me a card RAW, then show me alterations made to that card, then show me that SAME card GRADED. I also find it interesting that people who say they want to ‘clean up the hobby’ and abhor personal attacks have no qualms engaging in personal attacks themselves. Even more interesting is that many collectors of high $ items say they want to ‘clean up the hobby’ yet when it comes to having THEIR cards examined, they refuse. The same happens when it comes to crossing their cards over from say psa to sgc. Why?

I also think it is somewhat selfish and elitist to support a service yet make comments like ‘well, if I pay joebob, why should ANYONE ELSE benefit from it?’ If someone TRULY wants to help ‘clean up the hobby’, they should freely and openly share KNOWN alterations. People often point out questionable auctions on ebay/other sites, so why NOT point out known altered cards?

W/that said, if someone wants to pay someone to ‘sign off’ on cards before buying them, that’s their choice. If someone wants to turn this into a venture, good for them.

Btw jim, if you do not know if any of your 50,000 cards have been altered, are you going to have Kevin examine all 50,000? What are you going to do with your cards if Kevin deems them to be altered- consign them to an auction house, disclose that Kevin found them to be altered? Auction them on ebay and disclose that Kevin found them to be altered? Sell them without disclosing that Kevin found them to be altered? if someone truly believes that another person is one of the hobby's 'experts', why not put your $ where your mouth is? if i had doubts about cards in my collection, i would (and have) take every step i could to have an 'expert' examine them to determine if they were altered.

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Posted By: JohnG

While I have rarely posted here I do follow along from time to time and have noticed something lately.

Seems you're a bit jealous or maybe you have some sort of sickness or obsession with the LTS people?

Were you not up to snuff according to your guidelines?

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Posted By: JimCrandell

John.

You obviously have read very little of what I said--study up and if you have specific questions I will be glad to help.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

JohnG,

Correct--I was not up to snuff. Actually pretty good friends with as many as 50 LTS members--would not call it an obsession--have not brought it up much.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Tom,

My best wishes for a speedy recovery.

But I will bet you a lot of money that I quit on my own the first time and after you asked me back then you threw me off.

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Posted By: Frank Evanov

Jim, please get your facts straight:

Frank is a member--they let him in even though being a dentist is not what they usually prefer

I am a Board Certified Internist and Gastroenterologist.

Disagree--in fact Dave Forman swore to me Gary never Doctored cards during this period--we are talking late 80s-early 90s here

The cards I purchased from Gary were in the early 90's and were indeed altered. I was his family physician at the time. Of course you choose to believe his partner that no wrong doing was going on [?]. Kind of like taking Bonnie's word for Clyde.

Frank

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Posted By: Brian

<<pretty good friends with as many as 50 LTS members>>

Was that voted on?

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Posted By: John

I’ve read your words for years jim- we used to engage in polite discussions back on the CU boards years ago. I don’t live on message boards though (life happens and message boards are but a miniscule portion of mine), so perhaps you’ve already answered these questions. If so, feel free to point me to your posts/prior answers. If not, please answer them- and anything else you think people who are interested in 'cleaning up the hobby' should know.

1. has Kevin looked @ any of your cards currently in your possession? if so, were any deemed altered? If not, will Kevin look @ any of your cards currently in your possession? If not, why not? If Kevin finds any cards currently in your possession are altered, what will you do w/them? Take them off the market/destroy them? Let collectors know the cards are altered? Auction them off w/o disclosing kevin’s findings?

2. why didn’t you ever cross your 50k psa slabs over to sgc as you mentioned you’d do several times several years ago?

3. if you trust mike baker as much as you say, why not have gai cross your cards over?

4. if you ‘don’t know’ if any cards in your possession have been altered, why not have them checked out?

Maybe you can answer this question- or someone else can. Like I said, I don’t live on message boards, so may have missed the answer. What are kevin’s specific qualifications that make him more of an expert than bvg, gai, psa, sgc or any of the other commonly named ‘experts’?

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Posted By: pas

"I will have to consult with Peter on this--whoops--he is out too.'

Yup, tis true.

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Posted By: GoSoxBoSox

To keep my promise I will fill JohnG in on that last lie.

You getting the boot has nothing to do with being up to snuff. We were friends as you have said many times before. You got the boot for constabtly starting crap with people. Like you did tonight by picking on LTS yet again.

PS - I didn't "vote" on Kevin because there wasn't a "vote". The negative reaction was probably a bit more than the positive reaction. That was probably because Kevin is associated with threads like the content in this one. Most hobbyist don't like this kind of crap.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Brian,

They are the only ones allowed to talk to me--just kidding Tom.

Frank,

Sorry--don't know why I thought you were a dentist--sorry.

For those of you who don't know Frank he is one of the great guys in the hobby and has actually given me cards(not sold) worth in the hundreds of dollars.

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Posted By: Steve

You mean I could have passed myself off as a millionaire that went to Yale?

yes that is right. I went to Yale and am worth millions.

Tom shhhhhh

Steve

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Posted By: pas

I echo what was just said about DR. Frank -- a class act all the way. And I am glad Jim and Larry seem to have patched it up as Larry is a fine gentleman as well in my experience, and extremely knowledgeable about the hobby.

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Posted By: John

The LTS comments make it sound like the Illuminati. Gotta give you guys credit though- it made me look @ the site again..hadn't been there in ages. leave boards for a few months/years, come back, and it's like deja vu.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

John,

I have answered all these questions time and again--if you really want to know give me your e-mail address.

Tom,

Relax--smile--we both know I could never fit in at LTS--its ok. People are allowed to joke around on this message board.

And in response to the earlier comment Tom will confirm that visiting Harvard or Yale doesn't count--you have to go there.

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Posted By: GoSoxBoSox

I hear ya John. Frankly, I kinda hate all forums these days. But the pain killers have me on edge tonight so what the hell

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Posted By: John

I must’ve missed your answers jim. Like I said, life’s intervened over the past few years and my message board time’s vastly decreased. My email (I don’t know if Net54 has pms?) is thinkindependent@aol.com

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Posted By: GoSoxBoSox

I am relaxing Jim. I am thoroughly enjoying this.

Now jump back on your pedestal and keep talking down to us small people.

Wait ....I'll kneel down so you can stand on my back to get up there big guy.

Have at it!!!

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Posted By: John

i hear you bosox...i remember you from the CU boards years ago also. i'm actually glad LTS was brought up- it's an informative site and i've now got it bookmarked. heck, i may even be so bold as to apply now (life intervened when it was started and it fell off my radar like most message boards). GL w/your recovery bosox.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Where is this LTS message board at? Can you read it without being a member?

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Posted By: Larry

Peter, Thank You for your kind words, I echo your diligence, passion and knowledge within the hobby.

There should be no one that should force their opinion down anyone's throat. Nor should anyone think they are totally right. The truth is, we are all just here for a short time on this earth and actions speak louder than words.

I try to act respectful and courteous to everyone no matter how wealthy or not they are, whether I agree with them or not. I do not feel that anyone should be regarded as a savior or experts in the hobby when everybody makes mistakes, we are human.

To all those that agree with me or not, I sincerely wish everyone a happy thanksgiving and enjoy the time with your families on this special day, a day when friends and family should be thankful of their blessings.

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Posted By: GoSoxBoSox

www.letstalksportscards.com

Sorry. You can't read it without being a member but anyone can apply. Just follow the instructions. There is probably a waiting list to join. It's very popular despite what some say.

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

Jim:

You actually mention LTS quite a lot over here on 54. And your comments about LTS have nothing whatsoever to do with the content of the thread you're posting in. For someone who routinely gets upset when your threads get hijacked, you sure do digress a lot yourself.

You and I are friends, but I sure wish you'd stop bringing up LTS in your Net54 posts. I'm pretty sure nobody here cares.

-Al

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Tom,

You should be proud of starting LTS. Its blossomed into a large organization. I admire you for it.

Best to your family and I wish you a speedy recovery.

Dan,

whew--thats a no-no. You must be a member to read it and members are not allowed to share what is said there with anyone under penalty of expulsion or even worse.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Thanks Tom, I was just interested in reading it...not joining. Probably nothing I could add to it.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Ummmm...seriously? You're not allowed to talk about LTS outside of LTS?

Sounds a lot like Fight Club!

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Posted By: GoSoxBoSox

Yes, sometimes we hang people. But usually we just throw sulfuric acid on them and just laugh and laugh.

Geeez....

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Posted By: GoSoxBoSox

That's a good idea for a name change based on some of our threads.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Al,

Okay--if nobody cares I won't talk about it.

I didn't know it was illegal to talk about it--after all it is part of the hobby.

Just think its interesting that Kevin is not allowed in, three people get thrown out or quit before it happens, other noteworthy collectors resign and rejoin, others threaten to quit. Look at all the attention Jay gets when he leaves Net54. Its like a soap opera over there--you could make a tv miniseries about it.

Lets get together after the holidays.

Jim

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Posted By: Tom Nieves

.