Flipping Cards

[old-baseball]

From time to time I get the feeling that quite a few members look down on flipping cards. If it's done with complete transparancy, what's difference does if make. I probably say that 50% of my collection has been put together by some kind of flip. If I buy a group of 50 VG T206 cards for a $1,000, keep 10 and sell the Remainder at something like $25 each so that I paid nothing for the 10 that I chose to keep, Is there something wrong with that?

A couple of years ago I had one grade E121-80 in my collection (Burns - Cleveland I think it was) that was an SGC EXMT card - the highest that they had graded at the time. At the time there was a "whale" buying up highly graded E121's on Ebay and watched him do so for several weeks before I put my card out there with a reserve of $275 or $300 to see if he would buy it - which he did. I had paid maybe $40 for the card a couple of months prior. I took my $260 profit bought another raw EX Burns card at the National for about $30 and spent the rest on other cards to put into my collection. The funny thing was within hours of the sale the was a Net54 thread going concerning my sale, asking what's up with this Ebay auction. There was no conspiricy to defraud anyone, I saw a situation that I could take advantage of and I did. The guy had bought 50 cards before he bought mine, probably many from guys that post here.

What's the big deal with card flips? (Beside my father doing it with most of his '33 goudey as a kid and ruining the corners for me!)

All in all, I don't get it.

[Jim VB]

I don't think there is anything wrong with flipping cards. I'm fine when someone does it and makes a modest profit. I'm fine when someone does it and makes a killing. I feel sorry when someone tries it and loses a bundle.


I get upset if/when someone uses different IDs to flip a card multiple times to inflate the price. And that happens all the time in this hobby.

[mintacular]

Maybe people are jealous I don't consider your experience as "flipping". I think of a flip as you buy 1 card for a low price and immediately relist it for much more. Even in that instance there's really nothing technically wrong with this but perhaps some might think you took advantage of the first seller or could've resold the card more discreetly and at a later time.

[Mikehealer]

I would think that nearly everyone has bought a card at a certain price just
because the price was good with the intention of selling for a profit. I don't
see anything wrong with it all.

[tiger8mush]

Lets say you put a card for sale on the net54 b/s/t. Its a $100 card, but you need some quick money so you offer it for $75. 2 minutes later you get an email from a buyer and the deal is done. All is good. Before you can even post "sold" on the b/s/t, you have a handful of emails from other collectors also committing to buy the card. But you write them back saying its already sold. A week later, u see the card as a Buy-It-Now on ebay for $125.

Wouldn't you have rather seen it go to a fellow net54 collector who would've kept the card in their collection, than a business man who ONLY scours net54 looking to make money?

Its a hypothetical scenario; not one I'm saying has or hasn't happened. But when the opportunity for a collector to get a card for a good price is taken away from someone who has no appreciation for the hobby other than to solely make money, and now the collector has to pay $125 instead of $75 and a business man makes $50 off of OUR hobby, it may lead to bad feelings towards "flippers".

Many of us will certainly change focus over the course of our collecting lifespans so of course we'll sell cards that we previously purchased. And if I can't find a partner to go in on a lot, I too have sold off the rest of a lot to get the cards I wanted. A flipper to me, though, is someone whose ONLY interest in sportscards is to make money on it and is making it a more expensive hobby for the real enthusiasts.

But its a (mostly) free country, to each his own.

Rob


p.s. If a whale wants to buy any of my cards for 10x more than I paid for it, I'll be happy to sell!
p.p.s If i put a card or cards for sale on the b/s/t and get 2 emails at "about" the same time - one from a known enthusiast of the set, and one a known flipper - I'm selling it to the enthusiast.

[Frank A]

To many people on here have to much to say about what someone does with thier money or cards. If a person wants to flip a card, what business is it of anyone but the owner. NONE. you guys need to lighten up.

[old-baseball]

Rob - I agree I'd much rather sell to someone in the hobby than someone that is solely here to turn cards for a profit. But I have to say that in your example, the the $100 card is sold for $75 thats the sellers fault not the buyer. I think we all know who else collects what we collect and have a fairly good idea what the other guys need. If you put a card out on B/S/T for 75% of what a fellow collector would pay, and it's snatched up by a "flipper", that's your fault. There's no reason that it couldn't have been offered directly to a group of fellow collectors.

Fast forward to a week later, this time the card's on Ebay $125, too bad for the previous owner, but he got the $75 he wanted. Now if one of his fellow collector pays $125 for the $100 card because he's been looking for it forever, that his business. He doesn't have to part with the $125, it's completely his choice. We, the collector (I don't consider myself a "flipper") really control the hobby because we pay what we think something is worth, not because of the price in a guide or what somebody has it listed for on Ebay.

I know were on the same side of this issue but cards only have the value that they do because we're willing to pay.

Jim - I too hate to see people take a beating on a flip but like everything else you have to understand what you're getting into. I now also understand what you're driving at in talking about artificially driving up the value of a card. It's not right.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by Frank A

To many people on here have to much to say about what someone does with thier money or cards. If a person wants to flip a card, what business is it of anyone but the owner. NONE. you guys need to lighten up.

Frank,

Who needs to lighten up? I think everyone that posted said they have no problem at all with someone flipping a card.

[andybecker]

if i sell a card, i sell a card. what the buyer does with that card is the buyer's business....not mine.

[ChiefBenderForever]

Its not easy being a small fish in a sea of dolphins, sharks,and whales.

[FUBAR]

I think it is fine to do with what you please. Now if you take advantage of someone that doesn't know and then turn around and make a huge profit, i think that is wrong.

If the guy that found the SHOELESS Joe card for $20 doesnt believe in flipping, then i got a cool $25 for ya! ;o)

[Leon]

If I see a card I know I can sell for $125 for $75 I see no reason not to buy it and try to make $50. Now, if I say I have to have it for my collection and I will keep it forever, weasel you down to $65...then the next day put it on the BST for $100....then that is kind of weasely....Maybe I changed my mind but next time I wouldn't expect to get a discount. (btw, I don't do that) I salute anyone that can buy and sell and make money....heck, I have bought numerous cards from people immediately after they bought them, for a nice markup, as they saw them first and bought them and I needed or wanted them. Absolutely someone can do what the heck they want with a card once they buy it but they shouldn't lie on the front end..... regards

[FUBAR]

i think we all have flipped a card for profit at one point or another, when ebay first started in 1997, i was all over it buying cards for maybe .05 cents on the dollar. I even bought some t206's and 205's for 2-3$ each. One lot i bought for 8$ had a bossy rc i graded with an 8.5 and a few other old rc's, in total about 3500$ worth. I couldnt believe people would send them out for that kind of money. It was like a gold mine at the time.

I sold alot of them at the local shop, i supplemented my income at that time.. you cant really find too many deals anymore on ebay so i dont bother trying.

[drc]

There's nothing wrong with flipping. Nor do I find someone morally superior because he held a card two years, instead of one week, before selling it for profit.

[Edwolf1963]

My only issue is seeing a listed card playing everyone up for a fool - using dopey editorial like "Blazer!" or "Wow!", quoting book value for NM when your card is clearly a beater 2 at best, flipping it before you even received it (IE: win auction one night and relisting day after) and then pricing it so far beyond VCP current market extreme, you can imagine Bobby posts it up as the laugh of the day

[drc]

Those are reasonable points, but have nothing to do with how long the seller owned the card. Someone who had a card for 20 years can be as honest or dishonest as someone who had a card for ten minutes.

[Fred]

My biggest problem with flipping is that I never complete the second end of the flip. I just can't let go of what I buy...

I don't see anything wrong with flipping in general but what bugs me is when people put buy ads in the BST trying to buy cards and then flipping them.

Why?

Because a lot of time the good guys on this board will provide a good guy discount to the buyer because they think they may be helping someone with their hobby collection (for example, finishing a set or subset). In those cases it just bugs me if someone puts out the buy ad just to try and pick up a card cheap to flip it. I figure if you're going to put in a buy request you could tell the seller your intentions, that way the seller may not feel like an idiot later on when the seller sees that their good deed (giving a discount to a board member) netted someone a nice profit.

[Wite3]

Flipping is fine but on the west coast we called it "leaners"...I was a champ...man, I could get a card to lean from nearly 15 feet as a kid! Huh? What? Sales? I thought we were talking about good old fashioned card flipping fun...my mistake...

Joshua

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by Leon

If I see a card I know I can sell for $125 for $75 I see no reason not to buy it and try to make $50. Now, if I say I have to have it for my collection and I will keep it forever, weasel you down to $65...then the next day put it on the BST for $100....then that is kind of weasely....

Like Leon, this is really the only time flipping will bother me. I have sold some things (that I may not have actually had for sale) to someone as a sort of favor to help them along with a project, only to see the item immediately go up for sale at a significant mark-up. It kinda makes you want to help others less for a while, but these situations are few and far between and have never really left a lasting bad taste in my mouth--it is irksome though!

-Rhett

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by Wite3

Flipping is fine but on the west coast we called it "leaners"...I was a champ...man, I could get a card to lean from nearly 15 feet as a kid! Huh? What? Sales? I thought we were talking about good old fashioned card flipping fun...my mistake...

Joshua

Josh,

As an east coaster, I think your confusing flipping with what we called pitching or scaling. It's two different games!

In flipping, you dropped cards from your hand and tried to either match or mismatch (whatever was called) the other guys cards.

In pitching (also called scaling) you tossed them at the wall or front stoop and tried to get them closest to the wall or leaning against the wall. This game was infinitely worse for corner wear!

[Jewish-collector]

Dealers make their living doing this. A dealer wins a huge lot in a major auction & breaks it up & resells it on eBay or their own web site or at shows. It's not rocket science. Collectors do the same thing to a lesser degree as you've all described in this thread.

As someone who can't afford much, I miss out on the fun because I can't afford to buy anything worthwhile to resell.

[Fuddjcal]

Welcome to the new E-bay!!!

I've been noticing this scenario with Autographs for months and I'm sure it's the same for cards. This KLH guy with 40,000 feedback for one and there are many others. They buy all the nice stuff at auction and then immediately list it in their store as a buy it now for double. I also find it funny that he has 40,000 feedback and he never leaves any.

It is rather disheartening that you are bidding against dealers and then they double the price on you. Reminds me of the PIG Real Estate agents that were running the prices up on all the good people who wanted to buy a house so they could flip it a few years back. That worked out well for them.

[FUBAR]

the real estate thing happens here in Vancouver all the time. The Rich buy up all the condos, sometimes 10 at a time in the new buildings and then as soon as they are sold out, which happens in hours here, they add 25% to the price and list it for sale. They just past a new law here to try and stop them from doing this as it drives our housing costs through the roof!