1910 phillies unpublished photo, debut

[billyb]

Hi All,

A friend of mine sent me this photo to post as he wants to know the team and the players in the photo. The uniform matches the 1910 Phillies, the players I do not know. Maybe Johnny Bates, second from left.
The photo was take by his grandfather who signed on the back of this photo. It is embossed 8 x 10, and possible taken in the Detroit area. No date given when or where the photo was taken. Not much help I know, but what a great photo.
Any help would be appreciated. Here is the big challenge. Who is the umpire......LOL Just kidding there.

phillies 1910.jpg

phillies up close.jpg

[bmarlowe1]

Phillies had no collars after 1907. Overall - these don't match their pre-1908 uniforms that did have collars.

[billyb]

Thanks, The only clue I can give, was that the photographer was in the Flint, Michigan area at the time. The hat almost looks like an old English "D", but hard to tell.

[Tripredacus]

Only 3 of the uniformed players have the white striped hat with the D on it, the other 3 have a different hat.

[Hot Springs Bathers]

I am quite sure those are old English P's

[billyb]

I have been searching for teams with a nickname that started with a "p", but concentrating on a possible letter on the hat as a "d" or a "B".
When I first looked at the uniform, along with the hat, the 1910 Phillies had an away and a home hat. One was white with the letter, the other was dark, but no letter appeared on the hat. Identical to the photo. So I thought, maybe they were the Phillys, but with a practice uniform, but as Mark pointed out, they did not have collars after 1908. Beside, why would an umpire be there for practice.
So, not the Phillys.

I will go back and concentrate on the letter on the hat as possibly being a "P".

Again, the only clue was, the photographer, was living in Flint, Michigan at the time, of this photo, as his stamp is on the back, with a Flint, Michigan location, but no date given.