eBay etiquette - card has crease

[ASF123]

I'm dealing with an eBay seller who is becoming combative after I asked to return a card or receive a partial refund. The card has a crease that did not show up in the photos and was not disclosed in the description.

Seller is taking the position that he provided photos and started at a low first bid, so it's my responsibility to ask about the card. If the crease was visible in the photos, I would agree - but I say it can't be the buyer's burden to contact the seller of every card he might bid on to ask if there are any substantial flaws that aren't visible or disclosed.

Am I off base here? The guy even accused me of sending a phony photo of a different card.

[ullmandds]

the reality is that you can return anything if u want for whatever reason...so theres that.

[Eggoman]

As an eBay Seller & Buyer for 21 years, I'm in YOUR camp!

I calls 'em as I sees 'em and WILL DEFINITELY mention creases, especially light ones or paper wrinkles. UNLESS I GRADE A CARD AS "BEAT"!!! Then you are on your own!

Do I EVER miss a crease - of course, but I would DEFINITELY make it right!

My 2 cents... FWIW!

[sycks22]

My only question is if the card is graded or raw? If it's graded I don't think you have a leg to stand on, if it's raw you have a legit beef. If you bought a PSA 3 it's still a PSA 3 regardless if there's a crease or not.

[ramram]

Like Pete said, none of that really matters...you can return it for any reason anyway.

Rob M

[ASF123]

Originally Posted by sycks22

My only question is if the card is graded or raw? If it's graded I don't think you have a leg to stand on, if it's raw you have a legit beef. If you bought a PSA 3 it's still a PSA 3 regardless if there's a crease or not.

Fair point, and I agree. This case is a raw card.

[sycks22]

Originally Posted by ASF123

Fair point, and I agree. This case is a raw card.

You should be good to go then.

[DeanH3]

If it's a lower condition card, I always ask if there are any creases or wrinkles if I don't see any in the scans. What really drives me nuts is when I ask and get a response of no. Then when the card arrives I see a noticeable crease or wrinkle. That tells me that the seller obviously didn't even bother to look and verify. SMH!

Good luck. I hope this gets resolved for you.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Not sure in the OP's case if the buyer provided a grade for the card in their listing or not. As far as etiquette in this situation, it would be dependent on if a grade describing the card's condition was provided.

[ASF123]

Originally Posted by DeanH3

If it's a lower condition card, I always ask if there are any creases or wrinkles if I don't see any in the scans.

That's a good policy, of course, and I try to do so when time permits as well. But it can't be required as a default of all buyers.

In this case, it's a pretty obvious crease, too - I'm surprised it didn't show up in the photos (I just triple-checked). Even the dead-on photo of the corner where it is. Probably because it goes over a light blue/white sky background.

[ASF123]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

Not sure in the OP's case if the buyer provided a grade for the card in their listing or not. As far as etiquette in this situation, it would be dependent on if a grade describing the card's condition was provided.

No substantive information about the condition was provided in the description. No grade. But again - the crease was hidden in the photos, so relying on the photos was not adequate for disclosure.

[jfkheat]

Just file a Not as Described claim. The seller will have no choice but to issue a refund.

[perezfan]

Even if it was graded, the crease should be disclosed by any good seller. You are bidding on the card... not a grader's random opinion. I am shocked by the amount of lazy eBay sellers who say nothing at all about the card, except to give the TPG grade.

The hobby took a big turn for the worse, when this lazy reliance on TPG opinion became prevalent. I do not bid with sellers who simply tell you the assigned grade (which you can easily see for yourself anyway). What you cannot often see are surface wrinkles and creases that fail to show up in scans. It is in no way unreasonable to expect seller's to include the card's attributes in their description.

You can return it for ANY reason, graded or not. Based on the pushback you're getting, I would pursue a full refund, block him, and then move on.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by ASF123

Seller is taking the position that he provided photos and started at a low first bid, so it's my responsibility to ask about the card. If the crease was visible in the photos, I would agree - but I say it can't be the buyer's burden to contact the seller of every card he might bid on to ask if there are any substantial flaws that aren't visible or disclosed.

Obviously the sellers tactics (not offering a description, response) in this case are not the recommended route for any seller to take, especially if they value repeat business. This sellers business model appears to not care if his customers are satisfied and he is not likely to have much repeat business. As poor as this seller's business model is, unfortunately, he is right there is some burden on the buyer from buying from a seller who offers no description. In this case, with no grade offered, I would have avoided buying from him all together.

[ASF123]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

As poor as this seller's business model is, unfortunately, he is right there is some burden on the buyer from buying from a seller who offers no description.

Well, he did offer a "description," implicitly, by posting photos. And the photos were inaccurate.

[MidnightMarauders]

You have to disclose a crease, come on.

As a seller I feel like it's on me if a buyer finds anything legitimate I did not disclose (or if I am selling something outside of my wheelhouse a factor I did not consider).

It it happens I do a full credit or return in most instances and someone offering to take a partial credit on something legit is someone who is trying to work with me with is very appreciated in a compromised transaction.

[sando69]

yes, you are absolutely substantiated with your dissatisfaction.
now, just file a case with ebay, return the card WITH tracking and post his ebay id (or pm me) so we/i can avoid him in the future.

[Throttlesteer]

"I'm not a professional grader, see the photos and judge for yourself" always pisses me off. It's a cop out and I generally steer clear of any auction with this wording. It smells of bad stuff.

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

+1, Anson!

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Originally Posted by ASF123

I'm dealing with an eBay seller who is becoming combative after I asked to return a card or receive a partial refund. The card has a crease that did not show up in the photos and was not disclosed in the description.

Seller is taking the position that he provided photos and started at a low first bid, so it's my responsibility to ask about the card. If the crease was visible in the photos, I would agree - but I say it can't be the buyer's burden to contact the seller of every card he might bid on to ask if there are any substantial flaws that aren't visible or disclosed.

Am I off base here? The guy even accused me of sending a phony photo of a different card.

Out of complete curiosity, can you post the scan the seller used in the listing? It might be fun to see if we can detect the crease.

[Jim65]

Return the card.

You should realize once you ask for a partial refund, some sellers immediately think you had buyers remorse and are trying to get some money back. A lot of buyers try to pull this scam so some sellers are very sensitive to it. Sounds like you have a legitimate claim so just file Not As Described claim and return the card.

[ASF123]

Originally Posted by vintagebaseballcardguy

Out of complete curiosity, can you post the scan the seller used in the listing? It might be fun to see if we can detect the crease.

Ha - unfortunately revealing that it was over a light blue/white sky background would totally give it away.

[ASF123]

Originally Posted by Jim65

Return the card.

You should realize once you ask for a partial refund, some sellers immediately think you had buyers remorse and are trying to get some money back. A lot of buyers try to pull this scam so some sellers are very sensitive to it. Sounds like you have a legitimate claim so just file Not As Described claim and return the card.

Good to know, thanks - I was just trying to be helpful because I figured neither one of us would want to deal with the hassle of a return for a cheap card. I literally asked for ten bucks back and we'd call it even. The whole thing is pretty absurd.

[ASF123]

Update: this was the response I got from the seller, quoted verbatim:

The card was priced fairly for the condition. I posted 6 photos. Perhaps you inadvertently damaged it when removing it from the protective sleeve. I only listed the card for $10. I'm not an idiot and I know the value of these cards and this card when they are graded and in very good condition and it's a lot greater than $13 . I do not appreciate you trying to take advantage of me and make a quick dollar off my dead father's cards. You got the card in the picture. There was no intention on misleading anyone. I posted 6 photos and never said the card was excellent or even very good. I'm not here to have dealers rip me off. I'm here to get a fair price for my father's cards because unfortunately I need the money or I wouldn't be selling them.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Jim65

You should realize once you ask for a partial refund, some sellers immediately think you had buyers remorse and are trying to get some money back. A lot of buyers try to pull this scam so some sellers are very sensitive to it.

Spot on. This is a big thing--not sure I'd call it a scam, more of a tactic. There are a number of buyers who habitually buy a card then try to renegotiate on the basis of some half-assed complaint because they know eBay will hit you up as a seller for a refund including the return postage, so it is to your advantage to give a smaller partial refund, which is why some sellers go nuts if you bring it up: when it comes to lower priced cards it is basically extortion owing to the high cost of shipping. When eBay goes to dollar shipping after the end of the year on cheap cards it may make it easier to resist this sort of stuff. Me, I will not play the partial refund game. If you don't like it, return it. The key is not to allow automatic returns. That way, if a buyer wants to return a card he will either have to open a case which I can fight or pay the freight (literally) to return the card.

Owing to the dynamics of the situation, when I sell a raw card I always will err to the side of caution and state that there is a crease when I see one that might not show up on the scan to my eyes. Sometimes even when it does and I think it might nevertheless be misleading. I want to be sure that the buyer isn't thinking he got a steal. That said, I do not 'grade' a raw card. I make high res scans and let the buyer decide.

[icollectDCsports]

If you think the crease is a problem and will be unhappy owning the card, then go ahead and return it. You're not stealing from the seller, just returning it so he can re-sell it. Hopefully next time he'll mention the crease. Will be interesting to see if he does.

[ASF123]

Originally Posted by icollectDCsports

If you think the crease is a problem and will be unhappy owning the card, then go ahead and return it. You're not stealing from the seller, just returning it so he can re-sell it. Hopefully next time he'll mention the crease. Will be interesting to see if he does.

Eh, taking the guy at his word that he lost his dad, I don't want to argue any more over a small amount of $. I don't like his attitude, obviously, but he might understandably be in a bad place. Best to let it go - it's just a cheap card.

[cardsagain74]

This seller has a bad habit of whining about completely irrelevant details to the problem (whose cards they were, the initial bid, paranoid about you being a dealer, etc).

I'd ignore what he's saying and keep it simple. If you don't want the card, just open a return and send it back.

[Directly]

I assume with all the fakes selling on Ebay, the card was authentic. Its amazing how many fakes are being posted on Ebay and selling!! (the seller usually knows they aren't authentic but seem to skirt around the truth)

I posted a card being very plain in the description the card was a reproduction of some kind, not authentic , RP in the title etc. ! Ebay removed the listing saying it was against policy to list counterfeit cards--Hmmm??

I understand in this case the selling budging on a partial refund with all the shenanigans on Ebay, but would understand completely the buyer asking to return the item + shipping for a full refund. If thats not the case send in back as not as described.---or keep the card--

[icollectDCsports]

Originally Posted by ASF123

Eh, taking the guy at his word that he lost his dad, I don't want to argue any more over a small amount of $. I don't like his attitude, obviously, but he might understandably be in a bad place. Best to let it go - it's just a cheap card.

I completely understand that approach as well. I've declined to return some low-dollar eBay items, too, because it didn't seem worth the hassle. And I've also returned some because they just weren't as described and would be wasted money for me. But this seller is engaging in a commercial exercise using a worldwide platform and shouldn't guilt people like this. Like how is it that you're trying to make a buck off of him here if you simply want to return the card? Overall, however, you're right. It's not a lot of money so letting it go is reasonable though not fair to you.