Low or fair offers?

[EvilKing00]

Not too long ago there was a thread about this, i looked but couldnt find it to add this.

So i finally found a card i have wanted for a long time in my price range and with good eye apeal and number graded! Asking price was 375 or best offer which i thought was fair if not even too low.

As someone who negoatates for living i deside to start at 300 but would go to 350. I offer 300 hoping not to get a pissed off reply but its instantly accepted.

Anyway point is sometimes making an offer even a low one can result in a fair negoatition that both sides are happy with or even a good deal. Just got to keep in remember its not personal, and dont let it get personal.

[freakhappy]

Good point! In a perfect world, what you describe is a great way to go about negotiating. Unfortunately, some sellers are a- holes and some buyers are trolls that like to offer pennies of what a card is worth. Can't tell you how many times I have had a $200 or so card for sale and get an offer for $5.00...but that doesn't change anything for me, but it could make some sellers jumpy and on edge when it comes to lower offers.


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[ullmandds]

Interesting perspective. So lets say the seller of the card you bought knew that he had priced the card more than fairly(as you stated) and you sent him your offer of $300(which you both know to be a "low ball" offer)...and he responded to your offer with "thank you for your offer...but I have priced this card at a more than fair price and on this matter I am standing firm."

Would you have paid this more than fair price?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by EvilKing00

Not too long ago there was a thread about this, i looked but couldnt find it to add this.

So i finally found a card i have wanted for a long time in my price range and with good eye apeal and number graded! Asking price was 375 or best offer which i thought was fair if not even too low.

As someone who negoatates for living i deside to start at 300 but would go to 350. I offer 300 hoping not to get a pissed off reply but its instantly accepted.

Anyway point is sometimes making an offer even a low one can result in a fair negoatition that both sides are happy with or even a good deal. Just got to keep in remember its not personal, and dont let it get personal.

Lowballing is a matter of perspective. To me your $300 offer was not a lowball. A Lowball offer to me is using your same situation and offering $200 or less.

Congrats on your new card.

[EvilKing00]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Interesting perspective. So lets say the seller of the card you bought knew that he had priced the card more than fairly(as you stated) and you sent him your offer of $300(which you both know to be a "low ball" offer)...and he responded to your offer with "thank you for your offer...but I have priced this card at a more than fair price and on this matter I am standing firm."

Would you have paid this more than fair price?

Happenes alot to me like that, for this specific example i would of replied with, "350 would be my top offer, if that works for you" if he said no again, ud either say "ok i understand, email me if u change your mind, thanks for your time"

[EvilKing00]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Lowballing is a matter of perspective. To me your $300 offer was not a lowball. A Lowball offer to me is using your same situation and offering $200 or less.

Congrats on your new card.

Very true, good or bad offers are relative but even a 200 offer can get an responce like "thanks for the offer but the lowest ill go is 300"

[MacDice]

Cash is king. Sometimes an item has a very limited market and a seller needs to realize the actual chances of finding a buyer is limited. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

[BlueDevil89]

I don't think sellers should be offended by a low-ball offer. Sometimes, it's just a starting point for discussions / negotiations. Obviously, you don't want to throw out a number that is completely ridiculous (as mentioned by the original author of this post, you don't want to start off a negotiation by getting the other party pissed off).

What I take exception to is a potential buyer who thinks he needs to "educate" the seller by quoting recent comps. Even cards with the exact same grade often have a wide range of eye appeal, and as such different values. In most cases, the seller knows the market value of the card (---this is especially true members on this board) and has a specific minimum price in mind for which he would be willing to part with the card.

[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by BlueDevil89

I don't think sellers should be offended by a low-ball offer. Sometimes, it's just a starting point for discussions / negotiations. Obviously, you don't want to throw out a number that is completely ridiculous (as mentioned by the original author of this post, you don't want to start off a negotiation by getting the other party pissed off).

What I take exception to is a potential buyer who thinks he needs to "educate" the seller by quoting recent comps. Even cards with the exact same grade often have a wide range of eye appeal, and as such different values. In most cases, the seller knows the market value of the card (---this is especially true members on this board) and has a specific minimum price in mind for which he would be willing to part with the card.

I don't take exception to either of these but maybe its because I do a lot of selling for my business and you see all types. If I got upset everytime someone lowballed me and/or tried to educate me, I would have jumped off a bridge years ago.

The best strategy is just to stay calm, reply with what you're willing to do, and throw the ball back in their court. Most of the low ballers and exception people will disappear quickly and you can get down to considering the serious offers.

jeff

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by BlueDevil89

I don't think sellers should be offended by a low-ball offer. Sometimes, it's just a starting point for discussions / negotiations. Obviously, you don't want to throw out a number that is completely ridiculous (as mentioned by the original author of this post, you don't want to start off a negotiation by getting the other party pissed off).

What I take exception to is a potential buyer who thinks he needs to "educate" the seller by quoting recent comps. Even cards with the exact same grade often have a wide range of eye appeal, and as such different values. In most cases, the seller knows the market value of the card (---this is especially true members on this board) and has a specific minimum price in mind for which he would be willing to part with the card.

I tend to quote recent comps as a buyer when the seller is the first one to 'educate' in terms of recent comps....

[Exhibitman]

Does anyone watch Hardcore Pawn? The owner of the pawn shop in that series, Les Gold, engages in an interesting negotiating tactic. He lets the person throw out their number, then instead of countering asks what the person would really take. It usually shaves about a third off the opening. No matter whether the price is fair, he starts out way below it. If the item is something he senses the seller wants to unload he won't budge from there or very near to there and just shakes his head no and re-quotes his offer until the person walks or takes it.

I tried it recently at a show where the seller had an item that he did not want and did not know much about. I googled it and found one for sale for $1500, a ridiculous price, and also some past auction results for pre-2008 sales at about a third to a quarter of that. I asked what he wanted. He said he saw one online for that ridiculous price but knew it wasn't worth that. I asked what he'd really take, like Les does. He said he didn't know but if the item was worth $500 retail he'd want 50%, then asked if it was worth that to me. I did the Les Gold headshake and offered $100. I figured if I offered less than three figures he'd reject it but since he'd already indicated he did not know what the item was worth and wanted to move it, I could take a hard line. Plus, with no sales in 6 years I didn't really know retail either; I was willing to risk $100 on the item and just keep it if I was overpaying but no more. He asked for $250. Headshake no. $150? Headshake no. I reiterated my $100 offer and said "cash, right now", which is something Les does too when the seller is clearly not interested in taking the item home. I got the item for a hundred bucks.

But I digress. The problem with internet negotiating versus in-person is that there is no nuance, body language, rapid give and take, etc., when interacting online. It simply calls for a different set of rules of behavior. I find it best to engage in very straightforward, very polite discussions, and to take special care not to be condescending. I agree w/the critique of the 'educator' type of buyer; it is condescending to assume that the seller has not done the same google search you have or looked up the card on VCP.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Does anyone watch Hardcore Pawn? The owner of the pawn shop in that series, Les Gold, engages in an interesting negotiating tactic. He lets the person throw out their number, then instead of countering asks what the person would really take. It usually shaves about a third off the opening. No matter whether the price is fair, he starts out way below it. If the item is something he senses the seller wants to unload he won't budge from there or very near to there and just shakes his head no and re-quotes his offer until the person walks or takes it.

I tried it recently at a show where the seller had an item that he did not want and did not know much about. I googled it and found one for sale for $1500, a ridiculous price, and also some past auction results for pre-2008 sales at about a third to a quarter of that. I asked what he wanted. He said he saw one online for that ridiculous price but knew it wasn't worth that. I asked what he'd really take, like Les does. He said he didn't know but if the item was worth $500 retail he'd want 50%, then asked if it was worth that to me. I did the Les Gold headshake and offered $100. I figured if I offered less than three figures he'd reject it but since he'd already indicated he did not know what the item was worth and wanted to move it, I could take a hard line. Plus, with no sales in 6 years I didn't really know retail either; I was willing to risk $100 on the item and just keep it if I was overpaying but no more. He asked for $250. Headshake no. $150? Headshake no. I reiterated my $100 offer and said "cash, right now", which is something Les does too when the seller is clearly not interested in taking the item home. I got the item for a hundred bucks.

But I digress. The problem with internet negotiating versus in-person is that there is no nuance, body language, rapid give and take, etc., when interacting online. It simply calls for a different set of rules of behavior. I find it best to engage in very straightforward, very polite discussions, and to take special care not to be condescending. I agree w/the critique of the 'educator' type of buyer; it is condescending to assume that the seller has not done the same google search you have or looked up the card on VCP.

I know it is garbage television, but I like watching Hardcore Pawn from time to time. One drawback of the Les Gold negotiating style is that it tends to lead to a higher than expected precentage of sellers willing to pull their pants down and piss on the floor or threaten to blow the place up. I like when a seller will throw out a ridiculous number and Les will simply counter with, "Why?"

You were obviously fortunate that the seller did not come back with "Yo, bitch, you're gonna give me my $500 and that's all there is to it." like happens to Les on occasion.

It seems like Les' son, Seth, sure does overestimate the rarity of 1950s baseball cards and the legitimacy of autographs without credible COAs from what I have seen, however.