All time non-Hall of Fame Team

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Posted By: Darren J. Duet

I'm not sure if we did this before, and if we did--sorry. Pre-war please.

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Posted By: Nate

I would like to see Tip O'Neill get in there.

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Posted By: Jason Kaster

Joe Jackson and Eddie Cicotte

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Posted By: DJ

Harry Stovey, Joe Jackson, Pete Browning and Arlie Latham.

DJ

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Posted By: T206Collector

Heinie Zimmerman. Check out his rankings at the bottom of this link:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/z/zimmehe01.shtml

This guy was really good!

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Posted By: Chris Counts

1B — Richie/Dick Allen
2B — Buddy Myer
SS — Cecil Travis
3B — Ron Santo
OF — Jim Rice
OF — Minnie Minoso
OF — Tony Oliva
C — Thurmon Munson
RHP — Bert Blyleven
LHP — Jim Kaat

I've excluded banned players like Joe Jackson and Pete Rose only because I wanted to shine a little light on the merits of Oliva and Minoso, who I believe belong in the HOF. There are few injustices in baseball more glaring than the ommission of Minoso from Cooperstown. Besides being arguably the second best all-around player in his league for a decade (next to Mantle), he didn't come up until he was nearly 29 because of the color of his skin. Add to that his other accomplishments (as a kid in the late 70s, I actually watched him get a hit off an Angels' reliever named Sid Monge. He was 53 years old!), and you have a guy who is more worthy of induction than about two dozen guys who are enshrined. Wouldn't it be great to Minnie get in while he's still alive? Maybe he can ride the recent success of the White Sox into Cooperstown ...

As for the rest of the guys, I believe they're all worthy except Myer. Like Lou Whitaker, he comes up just a bit short in my estimation. I'd better stop my post now before I start pressing my case for the enshrinement of Lefty O'Doul ...

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Posted By: Chad

c Ted Simmons
1b Mule Suttles
2b Lou Whitaker
3b Jud Wilson
SS Dobie Moore
RF Cristobal Torriente
CF Willard Brown
LF Pete Hill
starting roation Dick Redding, Chet Brewer, Bert Blyleven, Tony Mullane
closer Goose!

Other notables:

Pete Rose, Ed Cicotte, Biz Mackey, Joe Jackson, Alejandro Oms, Jose Mendez, Ron Cey, Darrel Evans, Dummy Hoy, Bob Johnson, Louis Santop, George Scales, Alan Trammell

--Chad

Yes! Minnie, too! Man, I forgot a lot of guys. I could edit my post all night. Luis Tiant Sr. AND Jr. Ron Santo! Stan Hack! and on and on.

Oh yeah. And Oliver "Ghost" Marcelle. Sorry Matt!

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Posted By: JudgeDred (Fred)

Here are two not mentioned so far...

OF - Bob Johnson (8 x 100 RBI, SA > .500, 8x All Star)

P - Bob Caruthers

Oops, Chad already had Indian Bob Johnson...

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Posted By: Alan

Joe Wood, Pete Reiser, Vern Stephens, Sid Gordon, Ron Santo (repeat, but worth hearing it twice), Fleet Walker, Dummy Hoy (repeat again), Gavvy Cravath, Pete Browning and Riggs Stephenson. DONE EDITING, lol.

that's mine.

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Posted By: Greg Ecklund

I have excluded pre 1900 and Negro League players, and don't necessarily think that the guys on my teams should be in the Hall (in fact I think the Hall could use about 30-40 less guys than are in - my final team is a good place to start)

All Non-HOF Team (Pre-War Only):

C — Johnny Kling
1B — Harry Davis
2B — Buddy Myer
SS — Cecil Travis
3B — Heinie Zimmerman
OF — Lefty O'Doul
OF — Ken Williams
OF — Gavvy Cravath
RHP — Deacon Phillippe
LHP — Wilbur Cooper
RP - Firpo Marberry


Post-War Non-HOF Team:

C - Thurman Munson
1B - Dick Allen
2B - Lou Whitaker
SS - Alan Trammell
3B - Ron Santo
OF - Minnie Minoso
OF - Vada Pinson
OF - Andre Dawson
DH - Dave Parker
RHP - Allie Reynolds
LHP - Dave McNally
RP - Goose Gossage


The "Hey - How Did You Get In?" Team:

C - Rick Ferrell
1B - George Kelly
2B - Red Schoendienst
SS - Travis Jackson
3B - Fred Lindstrom
OF - Chick Hafey
OF - Lloyd Waner
OF - Ross Youngs
RHP - Jesse Haines
LHP - Rube Marquard

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Posted By: Alan

i think he got in because the senile old hall voters thought they were voting for paul.

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Posted By: J Levine

what about sherry magee?

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Posted By: Darren J. Duet

Cravath in my opinion is an excellent answer.

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Posted By: Al Crisafulli

I like a lot of the guys that have already been listed, notably Lefty O'Doul.

I would add Graig Nettles at 3B and might consider adding in Hal Trosky at 1B. Trosky had some monster years, despite a short career, that included a .343-42-162 year in 1936.

-Al

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Posted By: BlackSoxFan

uh ... no rose no jax...come one guys, even though i can't stand Rose .... they've gotta make these teams.

Regards,

Black Sox Fan

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

email me

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Posted By: Alan

if cicotte is on that list, we may as well add rose and joe jackson. and hal chase while we're at it. hell, and buck weaver for just being a victim of circumstance. and claude williams. hell swede risberg had all the makings of a hall of famer too........cobb and speaker are in. maybe we should let johnny chan and phil hellmuth in so that the rest of the gamblers will have some company.

"i'm forever blowing ballgames."

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Posted By: John S

I would have to cast votes for Phillippe and Cravath.

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Posted By: Daniel Bretta

Riggs Stephenson! If this guy could have stayed healthy who knows what kind of numbers he would have put up. He was a lifetime .336 hitter over 14 seasons, but unfortunately he only played in 1,310 games over those 14 years.

I'm not saying he belongs in the Hall of Fame, but just pondering the what if's.

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Posted By: Anson

I would add Carl Mays, Bob Caruthers, and Bill Lange to the list.

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Posted By: Ray

Let the Yankees bashing begin... but Donnie Baseball deserves to be on this list, as well as in the HOF!

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Posted By: tbob

Deacon Phillipe, Mike Donlin, Tommy Leach, David Orr and Bill Dahlen from pre-war.
Tony Oliva from modern times.

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Posted By: David Vargha

How can you guys forget the man whose career was tragically cut short by a conspiracy of the owners through the office of the commissioner of baseball . . . a player whose career OBP of 1.000 set during his rookie year would have easily surpassed the .609 OBP later amassed by Barry Bonds? This player showed a keen eye at the plate that rivaled that of Ted Williams and he showed patience at the plate beyond his experience.

He entered the major leagues without ever having played a day of organized baseball, let alone having spent time in the minors for seasoning and was rewarded for his success by being forced out of the major leagues. Yep, no list can be complete without pinch hitter extraordinaire, Eddie Gaedel.

DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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Posted By: Glenn

Doesn't somebody here have Gaedel's autograph?

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Posted By: DJ

There have been five known Eddie Gaedel signatures that I know of, including one heavily creased photograph which was just auctioned off. Can't remember where. There was also a grade school card and a couple of GPC's.

If your going to put Gaedel in, you might as well put in "Billy The Marlin".

I find it interesting that I can look back at these pre-war players and their stats and accept their positions in the famed Hall, but have difficulty taking the likes of Lou Whitaker who I saw play many times seriously. Don't know why exactly.

Also, Gil Hodges, Luis Tiant (his stats are good) and you have to put Roger Maris in just because his record was shattered by Mr. I Don't Speak English, Mr. I Want To Be Positive And Talk About The Future and Mr. His Trainer And Friend Is In The Can.

DJ

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Posted By: Daniel Bretta

Should the Hall of Fame be restricted to how good a guys career numbers were? Why shouldn't Roger Maris be in? He's definitely famous. He had a decent career with two really good seasons and two MVP awards. By definition he has more fame than 90% of the enshrined. And some people still view his 61 homers as the true untainted homerun mark.

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Posted By: pete

roger maris had a descent career! not great, not awesome, descent...unfortunately, his career was masked by the rest of the yankee staff, specifically mickey mantle, as a matter of fact, mantle only had a .298 career batting average, other than his 500+ homeruns, what did he do? he was much more valuable to the yankees than maris was and everyone loved the mick! so he's in, and rogers out...it sucks but there is only so much room

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Posted By: Alan

I was trying to stick to "vintage" players.

but blyleven should be in. whitaker. trammell. ted simmons. jack morris. maris. mattingly. tony conigliaro (if we are talking what-ifs and career ending injuries). bo jackson (another what if) doc gooden (what if) darryl strawberry (what if). canseco (what if). see, what ifs are a slippery slope.

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Posted By: Daniel Bretta

I wasn't really arguing that my "what if" (Riggs Stephenson) should be in, I was just pondering a really great hitter who just happened to be hurt by happenstance.

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Posted By: Alan

i agree with riggs stephenson. scroll up. i said him a while ago. IMO he is one of the top 3 NOT in the hall, that should be.

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Posted By: Mark

"mantle only had a .298 career batting average, other than his 500+ homeruns, what did he do?"

There are only 6 players with higher lifetime averages than .298 who have 500+ career home runs - Aaron, Ruth, Willimas, Mays, Foxx and Ott.

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Posted By: Frank Evanov

Hit .381 in 1929 and .393 in 1930...second in the batting race both years. Lifetime BA over 12 years .324. The immortal Babe Herman!

Frank

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Posted By: JudgeDred (Fred)

Cravath was brought up earlier - wow, 6 HR titles in 7 years. Yes, it was during the "dead ball" era but he certainly was ahead of his time in the long ball game. He was second in batting (9 points behind .350 to .341) in 1913 and that was what kept him from a triple crown that year (19 HR and 128 RBIs, 33 ahead of the runner up for the RBI crown).

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Posted By: jay behrens

Two major ommissions I've noticed, Mike Tiernan and Bobby Mathews.

Jay

If you can sue a band for making you want to commit suicide, can I sue Barry Manilow for turning me into a wuss in the 70s?

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Posted By: Darren J. Duet

YES! to Sherwood Magee

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Posted By: Greg Ecklund

Magee, Oliva, and Maris are all good choices that I left off.

Riggs Stephenson's career batting average is impressive, but he only had 4 years of over 500 at bats (one was 495, but I counted it as 500) and only 5 years in which he played over 100 games. I don't know circumstances of his career, but from a cursory glance at his numbers he looks like a clone of Kiki Cuyler that couldn't stay healthy.

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Posted By: Alan

I wanted to also throw the hat of Cy Williams into the ring.

as you can tell, i have become obsessed with this.

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Posted By: identify7

I think that Riggs Stephenson was a part of the strength that the Cubs flexed in the 30s. But he was in the shadows with a .336 lifetime average. The shadows of Hartnett, Hack Wilson, Hornsby, Cuyler, Billy and Babe Herman and others. In that group you can lose a .336 hitter who only got 4500 at bats in his career.

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Posted By: jay behrens

how about "the Ty Cobb of the Federal League", Benny Kauff. I also like Ken williams just because he was the first 30-30 player.

Jay

If you can sue a band for making you want to commit suicide, can I sue Barry Manilow for turning me into a wuss in the 70s?

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Posted By: JudgeDred (Fred)

Ken Williams is also part of a fun trivia question. Who was the only non-Yankee to win a HR title from 1918 - 1931?

Ken Williams is a solid choice but the only thing (probably) holding him back was the fact that he only had 4 seasons with 500+ AB. Kind of like Riggs Stephenson except Riggs only had 3 x 500+ AB seasons (along with another at 495 AB). I'm sure that there are probably a few others like this (O'Doul comes to mind).

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Posted By: Chris

How about Barney Dreyfuss for owner? Largely responsible for bringing the World Series to baseball and one of the true good guy owners. Was also responsible for making league schedules in the early days. A baseball genius IMO.

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Posted By: H Murphy

Gossage, and for all he meant to baseball the BEST Big Game Pitcher the Red Sox ever had.......... El Tiante, Louie Tiant!!!!

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

How can you leave Jackson out--he's one of baseball's greatest players, and he's not in the HOF!