Future values?....

[packs]

I don't really agree that because there are a lot of Mantle / DiMaggio items in the hobby the price won't escalate to Ruth levels. I don't think any single human being signed more autographs than Babe Ruth and there are mountains of them out there. Quantity didn't sap the Babe and his autograph isn't valuable because its scarce.

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by packs

I don't really agree that because there are a lot of Mantle / DiMaggio items in the hobby the price won't escalate to Ruth levels. I don't think any single human being signed more autographs than Babe Ruth and there are mountains of them out there. Quantity didn't sap the Babe and his autograph isn't valuable because its scarce.

Sure... the Babe signed a mountain of autographs. But the vast majority of them have not survived or are in poor condition. At the time of signing, it was not a "collectible."

Mantle, DiMaggio and Williams would sign thousands in a sitting many, many times... and they were all immediately placed in protective sleeves or ball cubes.

You can find THOUSANDS of authentic Mantles for sale in mint condition at any given moment. You can't say the same for the Babe... not even close.

[packs]

Why don't you let 70 years pass? We're comparing a guy who died in 1948 to guys who died in the 90s. Obviously there is going to be better condition material because less time has passed. If Ruth's autograph wasn't a collectible, why did he sign so many? His autograph is not valuable because it's scarce. It's valuable because of his following, fame, and legend. That's criteria that Mantle and DiMaggio meet as well.

[Duluth Eskimo]

Mantle and DiMaggio aren't at the same level as Babe Ruth. Ruth transcends sports. As you know, many people refer to others as "The Babe Ruth of fill in the blank". Per my example with kids at the Cub Scout pack or on my son's baseball team, every kid has heard of Babe Ruth and that will continue forever. My son has no idea who Mantle or DiMaggio are and there are autographed photos of each on my walls. Ruth is the "Babe Ruth" of baseball. Everyone else, is everyone else. You can agree, disagree, like it or not, but it's the way it is. There will always be a market for Ruth. Mantle and DiMaggio collectors are dying off each day.

[packs]

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

Mantle and DiMaggio aren't at the same level as Babe Ruth. Ruth transcends sports. As you know, many people refer to others as "The Babe Ruth of fill in the blank". Per my example with kids at the Cub Scout pack or on my son's baseball team, every kid has heard of Babe Ruth and that will continue forever. My son has no idea who Mantle or DiMaggio are and there are autographed photos of each on my walls. Ruth is the "Babe Ruth" of baseball. Everyone else, is everyone else. You can agree, disagree, like it or not, but it's the way it is. There will always be a market for Ruth. Mantle and DiMaggio collectors are dying off each day.

Transcends yes, but we're talking about autographs and collecting. Do you think there is a significant market of collectors who will buy Babe Ruth but have no other focus on sports?

[Duluth Eskimo]

Originally Posted by packs

Transcends yes, but we're talking about autographs and collecting. Do you think there is a significant market of collectors who will buy Babe Ruth but have no other focus on sports?

156% absolutely yes and I'm sure every bigger autograph dealer could tell you a story about some financially well off person who was looking for or bought a Babe Ruth signed baseball for himself, but had zero interest in much else.

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by packs

Why don't you let 70 years pass? We're comparing a guy who died in 1948 to guys who died in the 90s. Obviously there is going to be better condition material because less time has passed. If Ruth's autograph wasn't a collectible, why did he sign so many? His autograph is not valuable because it's scarce. It's valuable because of his following, fame, and legend. That's criteria that Mantle and DiMaggio meet as well.

In 70 years, these will still be a zillion signed Mantle, Dimaggio and Williams items in near mint condition.

Are you really making the argument that someday a signed Mickey Mantle or Ted Williams baseball will sell for $50,000+ like a minty single signed Ruth ball would today? (Adjusted for inflation, it would be a lot more than $50,000.)

[csotus]

In my opinion this correlates with my other hobby of coin collecting. The younger generation appear to have no interest in collecting coins and those that do have a small interest find real quick that the fakes from China really dilute and negatively effect the market. The fakes are so good that at one time or another expect to get burned.

With autographs, the same concept applies. I agree with the poster who mentioned non-HOF players. I think 20 years from now the only names that will be valuable are the instant name recognition. I personally dont see Mantle, etc getting to Babe's value level. I think both will increase, but Babe is the Babe, simple as that.

[packs]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

In 70 years, these will still be a zillion signed Mantle, Dimaggio and Williams items in near mint condition.

Are you really making the argument that someday a signed Mickey Mantle or Ted Williams baseball will sell for $50,000+ like a minty single signed Ruth ball would today? (Adjusted for inflation, it would be a lot more than $50,000.)

I am making the argument that scarcity isn't what makes Ruth's autograph valuable. You're the one who said that because there are a lot of Mantle and DiMaggio's out there they won't ever be as valuable. My point is there are just as many Ruth's as there are anyone's autograph. A ball that's snow white today is not guaranteed to be snow white in 70 years either. I have many balls from the 90s that have already turned brown and you're assuming a lot when you say they'll all survive.

While I don't think anyone will match Ruth's value, I think Mantle and DiMaggio will certainly increase because they have similar things working for them: career Yankees, the biggest sports personalities of their day, and a similar folk hero legacy.

[David Atkatz]

Mantle and DiMaggio values will never reach Ruth levels. Never.

Ruth transcends sports. Mantle and DiMaggio do not.

Every single post-playing-days Mantle and DiMaggio ball is in a ball cube, and has been virtually from the moment it was signed. They are pristine, and will remain so.
Most Ruth-signed balls are in lousy condition.

Everyone who wants a high-quality Mantle or DiMaggio has one. Not so for Ruth.

Sorry, packs. Your kids ain't gonna cash in on the modern stuff.

[packs]

I've already cashed in. I paid $50 each for Mantle and DiMaggio in White Plains back in the 90s. I'm sitting on a tidy profit after only a few decades.

[Baseball Fan]

Originally Posted by packs

I am making the argument that scarcity isn't what makes Ruth's autograph valuable. You're the one who said that because there are a lot of Mantle and DiMaggio's out there they won't ever be as valuable. My point is there are just as many Ruth's as there are anyone's autograph. A ball that's snow white today is not guaranteed to be snow white in 70 years either. I have many balls from the 90s that have already turned brown and you're assuming a lot when you say they'll all survive.

While I don't think anyone will match Ruth's value, I think Mantle and DiMaggio will certainly increase because they have similar things working for them: career Yankees, the biggest sports personalities of their day, and a similar folk hero legacy.

Not saying you are right or wrong, but it seems tough to believe that there are just as many Babe autographs out there as Mantle, DiMaggio or anyone else who had a full playing career and also took part in show signings and company signings for years after their careers.

[packs]

Ruth was the most famous man on earth for much of his life and he signed autographs for anyone and everyone who asked him for one. This is pure speculation on my part but I'd guess he signed a million autographs in his life.

[Topnotchsy]

I may be biased but the only player who I think has a shot of reaching Ruth levels of transcendence is Jackie Robinson. I collect Robinson, (so as stated I may be biased), but I think the reasons I collect him are the reasons he could one day be viewed on a similar level to Ruth. His importance and fame extends way beyond baseball.

[Runscott]

If Cobb prices can't come close to Ruth, how can we expect Mantle and Williams to?

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Runscott

If Cobb prices can't come close to Ruth, how can we expect Mantle and Williams to?

+1