Talk to me about Harper's Weekly Wood Cuts

[mouschi]

Are these really on wood? What exactly are they? Does/will PSA/SGC grade them?

[JeremyW]

mouschi-- If you go to the memorabilia side & search "Harper's", you'll find quite a bit of info.

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Not on wood, from a paper and I think I've seen a few graded.

[buymycards]

There was a great article in the Jan/Feb issue #14 of VCBC - if you can find one.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by mouschi

Are these really on wood? What exactly are they? Does/will PSA/SGC grade them?

I don't know (or care) if the people who get paid for their opinions will accept your money for looking at these, but if they are, be aware that these are technically newspaper clippings...

Doug

[swarmee]

Well, paper is technically wood pulp, right? Didn't they etch a wood plank in reverse and then ink it?

[barrysloate]

Harper's Weekly was an entertainment newspaper that was issued in the latter half of the 19th century. It covered baseball and would periodically have an artist's rendition, in the form of a woodcut, depicting a famous team or a game in action. They were printed using an engraved wood block, hence the term woodcut.

Most are relatively inexpensive, usually in the $50-150 range. It makes absolutely no sense to have them graded, as it might cost more to grade them than to buy them. They are a great way to get original 19th century baseball memorabilia cheaply, and the illustrations are very well done. None are especially rare so you can actually complete the set of around 35 woodcuts with a bit of patience.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

It makes absolutely no sense to have them graded

Barry -

I refuse to comment on you invoking "sense" into a conversation involving the people who get paid for their opinions...

Doug "you can buy some for just a bit more than a few cents" Goodman

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

Barry -

I refuse to comment on you invoking "sense" into a conversation involving the people who get paid for their opinions...

Doug "you can buy some for just a bit more than a few cents" Goodman

Agreed.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Well, paper is technically wood pulp, right? Didn't they etch a wood plank in reverse and then ink it?

They did carve the image into wood. With the detail they have probably endgrain maple.


Many of the papers of the time were not on wood pulp paper, but paper with a high rag content, cotton and linen fibers. And sometimes it's nearly acid free so it holds up well instead of getting brown and brittle.

[drcy]

The woodcuts were magazine pictures. However, unlike in the 1900s and today with reprint technologies, the prints were made directly from hand carved blocks blocks of wood (thus the name woodcuts) and thus are original works of art-- as original as a Rembrant or Picasso in a museum. They also have great graphics, and are great for framing and display. You can find them from as early as the 1850s.

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Harper's Weekly was an entertainment newspaper that was issued in the latter half of the 19th century. It covered baseball and would periodically have an artist's rendition, in the form of a woodcut, depicting a famous team or a game in action. They were printed using an engraved wood block, hence the term woodcut.

Most are relatively inexpensive, usually in the $50-150 range. It makes absolutely no sense to have them graded, as it might cost more to grade them than to buy them. They are a great way to get original 19th century baseball memorabilia cheaply, and the illustrations are very well done. None are especially rare so you can actually complete the set of around 35 woodcuts with a bit of patience.

Hi Barry

I could be wrong, but isn't the James Creighton woodcut somewhat rarer?
They seem to sell for decent money, but that may be just due to his status and the fact that there is hardly any memorabilia that exists for him.

[Jason19th]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

Hi Barry

I could be wrong, but isn't the James Creighton woodcut somewhat rarer?
They seem to sell for decent money, but that may be just due to his status and the fact that there is hardly any memorabilia that exists for him.

The Creighton is not a harper’s It’s from Leslie’s and it is a lot rarer

[TMKenKen]

Indeed. I have all of the Harper's and the Leslies. Pre-1900. They are newspapers, but very old newspapers, and they are very cool in my opinion. None of mine are graded. Would never think of grading them. I don't grade my books, publications, sheet music etc. either. I do know there were more than a few people who took clips cut from Reach and Spalding guides, graded, slabbed and sold them on ebay as "cards".

[Michael B]

I am not sure what the baseball ones sell for, but some from the Civil War period sell for very good money. One of the main artists for Harper's Weekly during the Civil War was Winslow Homer. His initials are found in all of the sketches he did for them. One of his most famous is a two page spread from the center of the paper called 'The Sharpshooter'. I recall seeing this one sell for well over $500.00 years ago. Sometime in the late 1980's the Portland Museum of Art in Maine had an exhibit of his Harper's sketches along with studies for some of his well known paintings including 'Breezing Up'.

[Griffins]

Originally Posted by TMKenKen

Indeed. I have all of the Harper's and the Leslies. Pre-1900. They are newspapers, but very old newspapers, and they are very cool in my opinion. None of mine are graded. Would never think of grading them. I don't grade my books, publications, sheet music etc. either. I do know there were more than a few people who took clips cut from Reach and Spalding guides, graded, slabbed and sold them on ebay as "cards".

Do you display them? I won the one in LOTG the other night, and was planning on having it matted and framed, but am concerned about fading.

[TMKenKen]

Originally Posted by Griffins

Do you display them? I won the one in LOTG the other night, and was planning on having it matted and framed, but am concerned about fading.

I have some of the major ones that (I have duplicates of) archivally matted and framed, sometimes with a plating when I give them to my grandkids for their rooms. When I do, I display the wood cut, with the remainder of the newspaper behind it and the matting so that it is complete. No fading that I have seen, but also no direct lighting.

[Griffins]

Thanks!

[drcy]

Relatively speaking, and with prudent care, they can be displayed. The ink is pretty permanent, and the paper is much less susceptible to aging than later newspapers paper. Newspapers from the 1900s have much more woodpulp in them, which causes them, to turn brown and crumbly.

Counterintuitively, newspapers from 1770 can be in far superior shape than ones from 1970, because of the lack of wood pulp in 1700s paper. Harper's has some wooldpulp, but a fraction of 1900s paper.

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

Hi Barry

I could be wrong, but isn't the James Creighton woodcut somewhat rarer?
They seem to sell for decent money, but that may be just due to his status and the fact that there is hardly any memorabilia that exists for him.

I just saw this question, sorry for the late response. The full page Jim Creighton is indeed a little harder to find, and a bit more expensive, but as stated by Jason it was issued by Leslie's.

The very first baseball woodcut, and as such the first illustration of baseball in an American newspaper, was featured in the Spirit of the Times on September 12, 1857. The Spirit was likewise a weekly paper of sporting events of all kinds, and the front page illustration of a game in progress is a classic (and decidedly scarce).

[drcy]

double post

[drcy]

You can collect Harper's Woodcuts by the famous painter Winslow Homer (he did a lot of them, many grade A, and there are books about them), and by Western artist Frederic Remington. In fact, Remington did a series of football woodcuts.

Collecting Frederic Remington’s 1800s American Football Prints



So woodcut collecting goes far beyond baseball and sport. A fascinating area.

Below is an 1874 Winslow Homer Harper's woodcut of a New York City Chinatown opium den

[barrysloate]

It's hard to find a good opium den these days.

[drcy]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

It's hard to find a good opium den these days.

I live in Seattle and there's a pot shop on my block.

For the record, I've never been in it.

[TMKenKen]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I just saw this question, sorry for the late response. The full page Jim Creighton is indeed a little harder to find, and a bit more expensive, but as stated by Jason it was issued by Leslie's.

The very first baseball woodcut, and as such the first illustration of baseball in an American newspaper, was featured in the Spirit of the Times on September 12, 1857. The Spirit was likewise a weekly paper of sporting events of all kinds, and the front page illustration of a game in progress is a classic (and decidedly scarce).

I had that (I had a bound volume containing all of the issues for that year), but for pressing reasons was forced to sell it and a number of items. I have not been able to replace it, but I continue to search.

[TMKenKen]

Originally Posted by drcy

Relatively speaking, and with prudent care, they can be displayed. The ink is pretty permanent, and the paper is much less susceptible to aging than later newspapers paper. Newspapers from the 1900s have much more woodpulp in them, which causes them, to turn brown and crumbly.

Counterintuitively, newspapers from 1770 can be in far superior shape than ones from 1970, because of the lack of wood pulp in 1700s paper. Harper's has some wooldpulp, but a fraction of 1900s paper.

Right, rag paper much more enduring.

[drcy]

Relevantly, to plug my old book

Identifying Antique Commercial Printing Processes, and the Basics of Authenticating Antique and Art Prints

Includes a chapter on paper.

[Leon]

Have one on my shelf!!

Originally Posted by drcy

Relevantly, to plug my old book

Identifying Antique Commercial Printing Processes, and the Basics of Authenticating Antique and Art Prints

Includes a chapter on paper.

[aquarius31]

Has anyone ever found an actual woodblock engraving depicting one of these baseball related woodcuts? I have 3 different woodblock engravings (as well as an 1880’s copper full front page from the Daily Graphic) but none are baseball themed. As an avid baseball woodcut collector, that would be an impressive discovery.


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[drcy]

I have not.

[doug.goodman]

Greeting woodcut aficionados -

Have any baseball related Harper's woodcuts turned up that ARE NOT on the checklist published in VCBC #14?

If so, can we see some pictures, and get some details?


With that question now having been asked, here is another :

Are those baseball bats hanging from that kid's shoulder?

Doug

[aquarius31]

Hey Doug,
I don’t have the checklist in hand at the moment but I believe it to be comprehensive for the players, teams, games in progress prints etc. It also includes many of the more general baseball themes. There may be other baseball related prints that are tangentially related such as reference to baseball board games etc but my comments are specific to players and teams.

I’ve found a number of previously undocumented woodcuts in other publications (and I believe there are more) but I’d be surprised/elated if there are Harper related prints that I have previously not seen. Even the supplements are well documented/known to the (small woodcut) collecting world. It’s possible that there were regional editions of Harper’s which came out in limited publication as I believe that to be the case for some of the obscure Leslie’s prints.


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[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by aquarius31

Hey Doug,
I don’t have the checklist in hand at the moment...

It's sitting on the table next to me, the cover I posted is not on the list...

[aquarius31]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

It's sitting on the table next to me, the cover I posted is not on the list...

Yes. My comments were specific to teams and or players. I’m skeptical that there are undocumented ones out there.


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[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by aquarius31

Yes. My comments were specific to teams and or players. I’m skeptical that there are undocumented ones out there.


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I agree, but if those are baseball bats, then being on the cover gives them extra credit.

[bgar3]

I think they are baseball bats. Good one.

[mouschi]

That's a great find! I still get a kick out of ... well ... anything 19th century baseball but especially when it comes to pieces like this that are pre-commercially produced / nationally distributed baseball cards.