Pele Rookie? 1958 Diario De Noite

[Anish]

Originally Posted by Anish

Great stuff. I have no issue calling it a RC.

What is the card pictured above the one with the titulares image? That’s an awesome looking card

I guess this answers my question.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/PELE-1958-R...sAAOSw3npb2144

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by Anish

I guess this answers my question.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/PELE-1958-R...sAAOSw3npb2144

These cards are pretty rare and they look awesome, but there are a few things that are bothering me here: firstly, I have not been able to find the album these cards came from, and secondly, were these cards really made in 1958? A lot of collectors see 1958 on the back and assume that is the date of manufacture - this is not true. It simply says that they won the World Cup in Sweden 1958.

Maybe Al can help us with this one ...

[Anish]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

These cards are pretty rare and they look awesome, but there are a few things that are bothering me here: firstly, I have not been able to find the album these cards came from, and secondly, were these cards really made in 1958? A lot of collectors see 1958 on the back and assume that is the date of manufacture - this is not true. It simply says that they won the World Cup in Sweden 1958.

Maybe Al can help us with this one ...

Well, they seem to feature the 1958 Brazil WC squad and a young looking Pele, so I don’t imagine they could have come out much later.

Really gorgeous cards either way. Has anyone seen any sales of the Pele?

[samosa4u]

Here, I found this last night:



It looks similar to the one the OP posted. If you compare them, you will also notice that the image posted by the OP looks like it was damaged by UV rays. This leads me to believe that it was probably a store window display.

Again, if I got some window display from 1951 that features the New York Yankees, and I were to cut out the Mickey Mantle, do you think I could call it a 'rookie?' You Americans would laugh in my face if I did that, right?

Now I do understand that it's different when it comes to soccer cards, because they were issued in other countries, and they come in all sizes and shapes, however, a lot of the old rules that were laid out by Beckett still apply. For example, for any card to be considered a 'rookie' it has to come from a set. It also has to be a base card as well. Pretty much all the vintage soccer cards that we discuss on this forum meet this criteria.

[Collect Equity]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

Here, I found this last night:

It looks similar to the one the OP posted. If you compare them, you will also notice that the image posted by the OP looks like it was damaged by UV rays. This leads me to believe that it was probably a store window display.

Again, if I got some window display from 1951 that features the New York Yankees, and I were to cut out the Mickey Mantle, do you think I could call it a 'rookie?' You Americans would laugh in my face if I did that, right?

Now I do understand that it's different when it comes to soccer cards, because they were issued in other countries, and they come in all sizes and shapes, however, a lot of the old rules that were laid out by Beckett still apply. For example, for any card to be considered a 'rookie' it has to come from a set. It also has to be a base card as well. Pretty much all the vintage soccer cards that we discuss on this forum meet this criteria.

Great find!!! That is very cool that you found that image. It does indeed look like it could be some kind of display piece. Now that I look closer, it appears that this piece (picture #1 in OP) was maybe used to create item #5 in the OP. However, if it was intended to be cut out and pasted in, then it still might be a rookie, in the same way that a strip card made to be cut out by hand can be considered a rookie. I don't own either item #1 or #5 of the OP, so I can't be sure they are the same and if they were intended to be cut out or not.

That said, item #2 & #3 of the OP clearly have perforated edges (like a stamp) and came with a card stock with spots made for gluing them on. I feel like that would qualify as a rookie card, just as much as a Panini album can qualify as a rookie, because they had the same intent as a Panini album.

I don't think American rookie rules can apply to foreign soccer issues. For example if Mickey Mantle had a 1951 sticker released via an album, there would be a good argument it couldn't be a rookie card because it's a sticker and goes in an album, as opposed to card board, and stickers and albums would never qualify for a rookie according to Beckett for an American card. But I fully count a Panini sticker from a foreign issued album because this was the manner of distribution for that country and different countries have different 'cards' (or stickers).

So I am still thinking that these might be considered rookies

[aljurgela]

Originally Posted by Anish

I guess this answers my question.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/PELE-1958-R...sAAOSw3npb2144

That auction got one bid (not mine) at 10k!

While I believe this to probably be a 1958 issue, I am not 100% sure, which is why I could not bid. Given the fact that it is a homage to the 1958 winning squad, at least we know that it is AFTER the 1958 World Cup. That said, I imagine that everyone would be trying to capitalize on the victory in close proximity to the World Cup from an advertising perspective.

At the very least my guess would be late 1958 or early 1959 - though I am still trying to track down the album (of which many did not have dates, anyway).

[Anish]

Originally Posted by aljurgela

That auction got one bid (not mine) at 10k!

While I believe this to probably be a 1958 issue, I am not 100% sure, which is why I could not bid. Given the fact that it is a homage to the 1958 winning squad, at least we know that it is AFTER the 1958 World Cup. That said, I imagine that everyone would be trying to capitalize on the victory in close proximity to the World Cup from an advertising perspective.

At the very least my guess would be late 1958 or early 1959 - though I am still trying to track down the album (of which many did not have dates, anyway).

Yeah, I saw that. Too much for me, but would love to add one at some point

[HasselhoffsCheeseburger]

There's a set from Argentina that's from 1964 but the only identifying references are the 1962 World Cup. I don't think that just because it says '58 World Cup on it means it's from '58.

Arthur

[aljurgela]

Originally Posted by HasselhoffsCheeseburger

There's a set from Argentina that's from 1964 but the only identifying references are the 1962 World Cup. I don't think that just because it says '58 World Cup on it means it's from '58.

Arthur

Yep.... I agree.... which is why I could not bid... I would like to have known and it is most likely, but not certain. As I have mentioned, I am very convinced that the Quigol rookie is most certainly NOT from 1958, yet most think that it is his rookie...

There is still a bit of "Wild West" in soccer cards for now....

[Anish]

Originally Posted by aljurgela

Yep.... I agree.... which is why I could not bid... I would like to have known and it is most likely, but not certain. As I have mentioned, I am very convinced that the Quigol rookie is most certainly NOT from 1958, yet most think that it is his rookie...

There is still a bit of "Wild West" in soccer cards for now....

I wonder what other info SGC has in order to label it a 1958 issue.

[HasselhoffsCheeseburger]

Originally Posted by Anish

I wonder what other info SGC has in order to label it a 1958 issue.

If I had to guess, none. SGC will slab just about anything and if you're halfway decent at bullsh!t they'll label the flip however you want.

Arthur