SGC is Riding the Wave

[JollyElm]

Anyone else notice the big upsurge in the number of SGC cards appearing on eBay these days? All of my searches (basically 1960s-70s stuff) are full of newly graded SGC tuxedo slabs. It seems everyone is taking advantage of the snap-of-a-finger turnaround times to get their cards quickly into the marketplace.

It is an interesting trade-off. Make less of a profit than what the same card in a PSA slab would bring you (that's a basic rule of thumb, your mileage may vary), but you make the money now (because SGC gets 'em back to you in the blink of an eye) and not in a year after PSA finally decides to return your cards. Perhaps this could be the first step in SGC sold prices moving a bit closer to PSA's? Time will tell.

For the record, I have no affiliation with any grading company.

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

SGC gets 'em back to you in the blink of an eye) and not in a year after PSA finally decides to return your cards..[/I]

PSA is caught up from the delay & my last batch (modern) took about a month or so to get graded.

[Lucas00]

Like many threads made about psa and sgc. The biggest reason always mentioned by people about sgcs big rise lately is they crush psa in terms of presentation. The "new" sgc slabs are phenomenal and built for presentation. And I think more people than ever are displaying their cards and want that slick and professional look. And psa just doesn't bring that same quality look in comparison. It's just science, when you have a black border on anything, whatever is on (or around) that border will always pop better than something that is clear.

Also always mentioned is the registry. It is in my opinion 99.9999% of the reason psa sells for more. Even though lately in my personal experience trying to get some really high grade PC cards, sgc is bringing extremely strong prices compared to psa in equal grades. And in many cases higher prices. I think this is in large part due to sgc grading unfathomably harsh. When you get a new label sgc 8 and cross it over to psa you know damn well you're getting an 8 with psa and maybe even a 9. But the opposite situation you are praying it crosses over the same grade.

I know psa is still dominating the lower grade space and the common space. But If sgc finally creates this registry that's been rumored for years now I think the tide could sway dramatically. But as they sit, their website is extremely slow and not user friendly at all. And the registry is nowhere in sight. They don't even have an app to scan and lookup certs.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Interesting, I am not seeing SGC prices matching PSA at all. Quite to the contrary, it seems there is a steep SGC discount still at least post war and especially modern, although I don't spend a lot of time studying it.

[Lucas00]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Interesting, I am not seeing SGC prices matching PSA at all. Quite to the contrary, it seems there is a steep SGC discount still at least post war and especially modern, although I don't spend a lot of time studying it.

If you are referring to my post Peter, it is Only in reference to vintage pre 1970 (usually pre 1960 actually) baseball. Shoulda said that.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Lucas00

If you are referring to my post Peter, it is Only in reference to vintage pre 1970 (usually pre 1960 actually) baseball. Shoulda said that.

Ah OK if I missed that sorry.

[Johnny630]

SGC would be much higher on the wave if they had shown up and graded at the National….missing two years in a row was a misstep. Can we get a legit QR Code/Slab and registry that is legitimate?

[scotgreb]

As a nearly exclusive PSA collector / submitter, I have used SGC recently because they know how to identify an Old Judge. My experiences with them have been great.

My PSA "membership" recently expired and I have no compelling reason to renew. The price point is too high for most of my needs -- not to mention they can change their prices and terms without notice and you have no idea what the "specials" are going to be. Then they offer a $100 credit to Loupe as incentive? Just keep it. At least the submission vouchers offered some value [to me].

Scott

[NYYFan63]

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

PSA is caught up from the delay & my last batch (modern) took about a month or so to get graded.

Good to know. Thanks for sharing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[NYYFan63]

I’m not seeing SGC getting higher prices compared to PSA slabs for pre-war. I do see more pre-war in SGC slabs compared to PSA, which may be why PSA warrants higher prices.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JustinD]

I don't see any equalization or rise in SGC values of late. That said submissions have increased since September and their percentage of ultra-modern submissions has exceeded any and all other areas. The ultra-modern rise seems surprising when I see the resale of those at a vast pricing difference to PSA. I think it's all pricing differences and PSA over valuing everything in their pricing structure by using older comps. The 1500 and under flat rate is a huge draw to new submitters in my mind. They also do not upcharge for post-2000 cards, which is again a wise move to fuel modern growth. Grading honestly sucks, its a complete waste for non-resellers or flippers when I can buy more cards or buy plastic cases. I pick cards every time.

Here is a nice breakdown of recent trends done by the Cardlines folks. I would imagine the December numbers should be out soon.

https://www.cardlines.com/sports-car...november-2022/

[parkplace33]

[QUOTE=NYYFan63;2300431]I’m not seeing SGC getting higher prices compared to PSA slabs for pre-war. I do see more pre-war in SGC slabs compared to PSA, which may be why PSA warrants higher prices.


Totally agree with this. SCG has found a niche with vintage, but I am not seeing the resell value reflecting that. Maybe in 2023?

[Rich Klein]

Subscribe to this blog and learn quite a bit about the details of what is getting graded

https://www.gemrate.com/blog

Regards
Rich

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

Subscribe to this blog and learn quite a bit about the details of what is getting graded

https://www.gemrate.com/blog

Regards
Rich

Thanks, Rich !

[Yoda]

I think SGC received a boost by grading the 9.5 '52 Topps Mantle accompanied by Alan Rosen's testimonial. It got a lot of free press on UTube and was one of the highlights of last years's National.

[packs]

Is the PSA bump really an issue in pre-war? I’ve collected for a long time and don’t care which company (PSA/SGC) graded my Cobb T206. I certainly wouldn’t pay any premium either. This seems limited to post-war and modern.

[Lorewalker]

Like others have written, I see much more SGC graded material on the market which reflects their incredibly fast turnaround time for an absurdly fair price but ya get what ya pay for. I have not seen any consistent SGC sales data that reflects pre 1960 material is selling for remotely close to what the PSA counterpart sells for.

Nothing would be better for the market than for 1 or more of the existing grading companies to be able to compete with PSA in terms of relsale but that is simply not taking place.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Like others have written, I see much more SGC graded material on the market which reflects their incredibly fast turnaround time for an absurdly fair price but ya get what ya pay for. I have not seen any consistent SGC sales data that reflects pre 1960 material is selling for remotely close to what the PSA counterpart sells for.

Nothing would be better for the market than for 1 or more of the existing grading companies to be able to compete with PSA in terms of relsale but that is simply not taking place.

Hopefully CSG will pick up the slack. Time will tell. Just remember, the ship is only as fast as the captain.
.

[Dead-Ball-Hitter]

Years ago I switched to SGC for the service and the expertise in dealing with 75+ year old cards.

I must say, the newer tuxedo absolutely pops! Its a reason I keep sending to them. Some day, I believe, the price gap will narrow. Maybe it will take a legitimate registry, or maybe folks will just get fed up with PSA's methods.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Leon

Hopefully CSG will pick up the slack. Time will tell. Just remember, the ship is only as fast as the captain.
.

Of the big 4, CSG, while new, is the only one who has no controversy surrounding them so that says a great deal. IMO, the company should be supported for that reason alone.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Of the big 4, CSG, while new, is the only one who has no controversy surrounding them so that says a great deal. IMO, the company should be supported for that reason alone.

Hopefully they keep it that way!

[Exhibitman]

I avidly track about a hundred vintage cards. I'd say SGC does just as well on them as PSA.

I really like the CSG product and have had strong sales results with CSG graded boxing cards. Can't say on baseball or other sports.

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

SGC would be much higher on the wave if they had shown up and graded at the National….missing two years in a row was a misstep. Can we get a legit GR Code/Slab and registry that is legitimate?

I am the biggest supporter of SGC and have been for years, all the way back to their Par/Troy days. I love their grading and suggest them over PSA to anyone who'll listen.


With that said, I have also been their biggest complainer about not bringing the registry back. I blast them on every social media post they make. Changing the cert numbers, leading to the demise of the registry was absolutely stupid. Not a big fan of them moving away from the 10-100 scale and kowtowing to the 1-10 scale either, but I'll live.

[jimmer77]

The thing I have notices with SGC, is that it seems they do not want to be competitive. Most businesses will essentially mimic their competitors in order to gain a piece of the market and give customers what they want but with a twist and it feels SGC went with the slab differentiate themselves and turn times, but with PSA seemingly catching up in turn times, SGC needs to do more to competitive. Could start with pricing at $24 to start, it's not enough especially when PSA will have entry price at $25, registry will help also, again for ease of tracking, an improved website would also help. I support both companies, admittedly have sent most of my subs to PSA recently, but am willing to get back on board with SGC if they show some willingness to do more to justify my business. 1 feature I do enjoy about SGC is the Seller Ready photos for all subs, but I imagine PSA will be including something similar sooner than later based on a recent survey they sent and if enough people answer yes to this option then they will probably mimic an SGC innovation. I guess what I am saying is all companies essentially copy one another and let the consumer decide, so if SGC wants to compete and gain significant market share then they need to keep marching forward and not stand pact against their competitors

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Of the big 4, CSG, while new, is the only one who has no controversy surrounding them so that says a great deal. IMO, the company should be supported for that reason alone.

Until I see CSG Vintage Cards in Major Auctions I'm going to reserve judgment.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Until I see CSG Vintage Cards in Major Auctions I'm going to reserve judgment.

I have made that point a few times when we have this discussion about TPG. I think it is really only a matter of time before we see CSG in major auctions both as consignments as well the houses themselves sending out consignors material. And I am not speaking of PWCC who presence in the hobby, imo, does not count.

[th38larg]

People are flipping ultra-modern stuff so quickly, SGC speed is a huge advantage. For example, flippers are chasing Brock Purdy material right now. I think there is an implicit understanding that once the 49er playoff run is over his values may crater. If your'e trying to grade with PSA, you probably won't be getting those cards back until after the Super Bowl is done and gone.

[Oscar_Stanage]

I once deluded myself into thinking the discount was getting smaller. With the exception of pre-war it is nonsense. I've been selling over the last few weeks and while the SGC cards do sell, they do so at the SGC comps which are way lower than PSA.

the fact is there is just a wider audience of PSA collectors, a lot just do not want SGC (or other slabs). best to just accept it.

[BobC]

In regard to some of the seemingly positive, or at worst neutral, comments about CSG and their possible future place among the other TPGs I'm reading about in this thread, would love to hear some of the stories and reasons for changing of opinions, and/or otherwise hypocritical comments now being made in regard to CSG.

I remember in an earlier thread just after the announcement came out, and I believe also before they had become a paid advertiser here on Net54, discussing CSG's decision in partnering with PWCC and agreeing to do grading for PWCC's customers through them. And in my attempt to hopefully steer that earlier thread to an intelligent and civil discussion regarding CSG's business choices and supposed business model going forward, and if they could potentially grow enough to become legit, serious competitors of the other TPGs, I got the not atypical $hit directed at me by the usual type of suspects. And it is almost comical how some posts/comments between both threads are now literally 180 degrees opposite from where they were in the prior statements/opinions regarding CSG.

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=318862,

And in regard to the main idea of the thread, I don't really see much change, and the pricing differences caused by factors such as Registries, seem to still be in place. I do believe I've started seeing more CSG slabbed cards on Ebay, and won't be surprised if they continue to creep up on the other TPGs, in both quantities showing up for sale, as well as the values they bring. I seem to remember seeing/reading that CSG supposedly does have a Registry of their own. If that is true, they need to keep grading many more cards before their Registry will begin to impact their card's resale value. I have stated before that a possible good move by CSG would be to see if they can somehow acquire, or at least partner-up with, SGC, and therefore be able to integrate SGC's grading population history with theirs, giving them both more Registry credibility, and allowing them to at least start to think about catching up to PSA in that regard. Still won't make up for the advantage PSA has built up over the years, or change the somewhat now ingrained hobby thinking/bias that PSA graded cards are worth more than other TPG graded cards, but at least it would be a start in the right direction.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by BobC

In regard to some of the seemingly positive, or at worst neutral, comments about CSG and their possible future place among the other TPGs I'm reading about in this thread, would love to hear some of the stories and reasons for changing of opinions, and/or otherwise hypocritical comments now being made in regard to CSG.

I remember in an earlier thread just after the announcement came out, and I believe also before they had become a paid advertiser here on Net54, discussing CSG's decision in partnering with PWCC and agreeing to do grading for PWCC's customers through them. And in my attempt to hopefully steer that earlier thread to an intelligent and civil discussion regarding CSG's business choices and supposed business model going forward, and if they could potentially grow enough to become legit, serious competitors of the other TPGs, I got the not atypical $hit directed at me by the usual type of suspects. And it is almost comical how some posts/comments between both threads are now literally 180 degrees opposite from where they were in the prior statements/opinions regarding CSG.

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=318862,

And in regard to the main idea of the thread, I don't really see much change, and the pricing differences caused by factors such as Registries, seem to still be in place. I do believe I've started seeing more CSG slabbed cards on Ebay, and won't be surprised if they continue to creep up on the other TPGs, in both quantities showing up for sale, as well as the values they bring. I seem to remember seeing/reading that CSG supposedly does have a Registry of their own. If that is true, they need to keep grading many more cards before their Registry will begin to impact their card's resale value. I have stated before that a possible good move by CSG would be to see if they can somehow acquire, or at least partner-up with, SGC, and therefore be able to integrate SGC's grading population history with theirs, giving them both more Registry credibility, and allowing them to at least start to think about catching up to PSA in that regard. Still won't make up for the advantage PSA has built up over the years, or change the somewhat now ingrained hobby thinking/bias that PSA graded cards are worth more than other TPG graded cards, but at least it would be a start in the right direction.

Hi Bob,

I had posted in that thread you linked. I was puzzled by the CSG and PWCC relationship and I guess I still am. I think that PWCC still has a pretty large following so I get the attraction to establishing the working relationship but given that, as far as we know, PWCC is still under a federal investigation and the controversy of being booted off of eBay for shill bidding, I think CSG could have gone with someone else....anyone else, actually. The association by no means suggests CSG supports the fraudulent activity but as a new(ish) TPG you would think they might want to start off working with cleaner entities...assuming there are some.

CSG seems to have so far have a very clean cut approach to the hobby and the parent company is highly respected. If any of their subsidiary grading companies have been subject to any unethical conduct that would be news to me. I am not sure an ethical grading company can thrive in our hobby but if one can, CSG seems to be the only candidate.

Chase

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Hi Bob,

I had posted in that thread you linked. I was puzzled by the CSG and PWCC relationship and I guess I still am. I think that PWCC still has a pretty large following so I get the attraction to establishing the working relationship but given that, as far as we know, PWCC is still under a federal investigation and the controversy of being booted off of eBay for shill bidding, I think CSG could have gone with someone else....anyone else, actually. The association by no means suggests CSG supports the fraudulent activity but as a new(ish) TPG you would think they might want to start off working with cleaner entities...assuming there are some.

CSG seems to have so far have a very clean cut approach to the hobby and the parent company is highly respected. If any of their subsidiary grading companies have been subject to any unethical conduct that would be news to me. I am not sure an ethical grading company can thrive in our hobby but if one can, CSG seems to be the only candidate.

Chase

Hey Chase,

I remember, and for the record, you are not one of the people I was referring to with the change in thinking in regard to CSG. LOL

Like you, I was surprised with them when they linked up with PWCC also, but thought it would still be interesting to try to civilly discuss why they would do such a thing. I agree that on the surface, such a partnership didn't make sense for a newcomer like CSG, and doing so would likely not help their business or reputation. The anti-CSG comments and sentiment in that other thread were very quick to come. I was thinking that by agreeing to work with PWCC, CSG was looking to get as many graded cards in their holders, and then out in the hobby, as quickly as possible. If you want to compete against the TPG big boys, you need to get a presence in the hobby and get your name out there as much as possible, right? And probably the best way to do that is to have as many of your graded cards circulating in the hobby marketplace as possible. And even if initially sold through PWCC, once those cards in CSG holders are out there in the marketplace, no one really remembers or knows where they originally came from, do they? And as others have mentioned in this and other threads, they're planning to withhold doing anything with CSG until they see them getting more hobby acceptance and have their cards start being listed in more auctions by some of the better, more well-known AHs. Which makes perfect, logical sense. And all the more reason it makes even more sense as to why CSG would have ever agreed to such a deal with PWCC, even given PWCC's history, reputation, and ongoing FBI investigation. CSG was simply looking to get as many people's cards graded, as fast as they can and out in the marketplace, and it appears they took an educated, business risk, to partner-up with PWCC in doing so. And as has been noted by many forum members to date that it appears no repercussions are coming down on PWCC from their alleged wrongful activities (at least not yet), it seems CSG might have made a smart business decision after all.

But like you and others, I also hope that they do not later on get found to have engaged or collaborated in any conspiracy or other illegal activities, and end up doing a much better job than the other TPGs did in detecting and stopping the grading and encapsulation of altered/doctored cards.

The comments and automatic denigration of CSG by some members in that earlier thread was appalling. They simply tried, convicted and condemned CSG as being no good and literally engaging in criminal activity, with absolutely no evidence, proof, or indication of any wrongdoing, other than they agreed to work with and grade cards for PWCC customers. Meanwhile, those same people who immediately condemned and vowed to never use CSG, failed to make any similar statements about pretty much all the other TPGs that are actually known to have worked with PWCC before, and had been found to have encapsulated altered/doctored cards supposedly funneled through to them by PWCC.

I'm still holding out hope that CSG might be a positive influence in the TPG arena, and at least keep the other TPGs as honest, fair, and affordable for those that want to still use them, as possible. A competing Registry against the current de facto monopoly Registry in the hobby would be a big positive also, IMO. Only time and the future will tell. But by the lack of almost immediate, blistering comments, denigrating CSG when mentioned in this thread, it sure seems they're slowly gaining some overall acceptance in the hobby after all.

Hope you had a great Christmas and New Year's Chase.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Interesting, I am not seeing SGC prices matching PSA at all. Quite to the contrary, it seems there is a steep SGC discount still at least post war and especially modern, although I don't spend a lot of time studying it.

Agreed

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by BobC

Hey Chase,

I remember, and for the record, you are not one of the people I was referring to with the change in thinking in regard to CSG. LOL

Like you, I was surprised with them when they linked up with PWCC also, but thought it would still be interesting to try to civilly discuss why they would do such a thing. I agree that on the surface, such a partnership didn't make sense for a newcomer like CSG, and doing so would likely not help their business or reputation. The anti-CSG comments and sentiment in that other thread were very quick to come. I was thinking that by agreeing to work with PWCC, CSG was looking to get as many graded cards in their holders, and then out in the hobby, as quickly as possible. If you want to compete against the TPG big boys, you need to get a presence in the hobby and get your name out there as much as possible, right? And probably the best way to do that is to have as many of your graded cards circulating in the hobby marketplace as possible. And even if initially sold through PWCC, once those cards in CSG holders are out there in the marketplace, no one really remembers or knows where they originally came from, do they? And as others have mentioned in this and other threads, they're planning to withhold doing anything with CSG until they see them getting more hobby acceptance and have their cards start being listed in more auctions by some of the better, more well-known AHs. Which makes perfect, logical sense. And all the more reason it makes even more sense as to why CSG would have ever agreed to such a deal with PWCC, even given PWCC's history, reputation, and ongoing FBI investigation. CSG was simply looking to get as many people's cards graded, as fast as they can and out in the marketplace, and it appears they took an educated, business risk, to partner-up with PWCC in doing so. And as has been noted by many forum members to date that it appears no repercussions are coming down on PWCC from their alleged wrongful activities (at least not yet), it seems CSG might have made a smart business decision after all.

But like you and others, I also hope that they do not later on get found to have engaged or collaborated in any conspiracy or other illegal activities, and end up doing a much better job than the other TPGs did in detecting and stopping the grading and encapsulation of altered/doctored cards.

The comments and automatic denigration of CSG by some members in that earlier thread was appalling. They simply tried, convicted and condemned CSG as being no good and literally engaging in criminal activity, with absolutely no evidence, proof, or indication of any wrongdoing, other than they agreed to work with and grade cards for PWCC customers. Meanwhile, those same people who immediately condemned and vowed to never use CSG, failed to make any similar statements about pretty much all the other TPGs that are actually known to have worked with PWCC before, and had been found to have encapsulated altered/doctored cards supposedly funneled through to them by PWCC.

I'm still holding out hope that CSG might be a positive influence in the TPG arena, and at least keep the other TPGs as honest, fair, and affordable for those that want to still use them, as possible. A competing Registry against the current de facto monopoly Registry in the hobby would be a big positive also, IMO. Only time and the future will tell. But by the lack of almost immediate, blistering comments, denigrating CSG when mentioned in this thread, it sure seems they're slowly gaining some overall acceptance in the hobby after all.

Hope you had a great Christmas and New Year's Chase.

Hi Bob,

Thank you and I hope you enjoyed your holiday season as well. I understand exactly the point you make about CSG needing to become more of a household name in the hobby and the only way to do that is to get their holders into the marketplace. TPG is nothing new and being the newest in a crowded field, even given some of the more popular mom and pop TPG, is not easy.

With as much public and law enforcement scrutiny that PWCC is under I doubt there was or is anything nefarious about CSG's "partnering" with PWCC. I am sure many things were considered with the pros and cons of pursuing the working relationship with PWCC as well as other options CSG could have pursued. It was a bold move. Wrote that in the other thread and writing it again. I do not follow PWCC auctions...never did when they were on eBay either so not sure how many CSG cards moved through their hands.

I would like to think that our hobby is an efficient one and think that given CCG's reputation in many other marketplaces, that CSG would have been just fine to do nothing but promote their service but obviously that was not enough. I am sure they were busy grading material but the key was to make sure the stuff they were slabbing was moving into the marketplace and not just siting in personal collections all over the US.

The risk CSG runs by putting their slabs into the marketplace via an auction as the newest TPG is that CSG's more accurately graded cards would sell for less thereby establishing a lower price point. The alternative, which is like watching paint dry, would have been to get fewer cards into the marketplace but sell them through a more conventional retail environment where the price point is established by the seller, not the buyer, as happens in any auction format. There is no short cut for time. I think it just takes time to build a brand. It does not help that all TPG are competing with the PSA Registry which clearly means you lose a considerable portion of the market.

One thing CSG should consider, if they are going to create a registry, is to allow some minority portion of the collectors' sets to be made up of other TPG cards. Maybe require all or most of the key cards to be CSG graded which might encourage crossovers. There has to be some incentive to the collectors so just not sure what that is. It might not topple PSA's registry but it might invite some of their faithful to consider CSG.

Take care,
Chase

[Snowman]

SGC cards do not sell for the same price as PSA slabs in the same grade. Pretty much ever. The only exception to that is when the card inside has tremendous eye-appeal. But it is the card that makes up that delta, not the holder, when it happens. But if you take the same exact card and put it in a PSA holder and then put it in an SGC holder, with the same grade, it's always going to sell for more in the PSA holder (at least currently).

The primary reason we are seeing so many more cards now in SGC and CSG holders though is not just because of the turnaround times. PSA has recently moved the goalposts on us (again), and they are now grading vintage cards with completely laughable grades. EX-MT cards in 4 holders, EX cards in 3 holders. NM-MT cards in 5 holders. It's absolutely absurd. So people have just stopped sending them cards because they're going to get a higher grade at SGC now. I can't tell you how many cards I've submitted to PSA lately that I immediately crack out upon receiving them back and then just send them off to SGC where they get 1 to 2 full grade bumps. People overlook the fact that an SGC 6 is going to outsell a PSA 4 every time.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Snowman

SGC cards do not sell for the same price as PSA slabs in the same grade. Pretty much ever. The only exception to that is when the card inside has tremendous eye-appeal. But it is the card that makes up that delta, not the holder, when it happens. But if you take the same exact card and put it in a PSA holder and then put it in an SGC holder, with the same grade, it's always going to sell for more in the PSA holder (at least currently).

The primary reason we are seeing so many more cards now in SGC and CSG holders though is not just because of the turnaround times. PSA has recently moved the goalposts on us (again), and they are now grading vintage cards with completely laughable grades. EX-MT cards in 4 holders, EX cards in 3 holders. NM-MT cards in 5 holders. It's absolutely absurd. So people have just stopped sending them cards because they're going to get a higher grade at SGC now. I can't tell you how many cards I've submitted to PSA lately that I immediately crack out upon receiving them back and then just send them off to SGC where they get 1 to 2 full grade bumps. People overlook the fact that an SGC 6 is going to outsell a PSA 4 every time.

Agreed. Whatever happened to simple competency?

[ullmandds]

" I can't tell you how many cards I've submitted to PSA lately that I immediately crack out upon receiving them back and then just send them off to SGC where they get 1 to 2 full grade bumps. "

Sounds like NOT sending more cards to PSA would be the logical solution??

[jimmer77]

I have noticed the last 3 1971 topps baseball that I had graded by PSA, came back as 4's and I really thought they would be at minimum a 6. With SGC, I have never received less than a 5 with 71 topps.
This is where I have a conundrum, where I like both companies, so will just continue to use both.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Snowman

SGC cards do not sell for the same price as PSA slabs in the same grade. Pretty much ever. The only exception to that is when the card inside has tremendous eye-appeal. But it is the card that makes up that delta, not the holder, when it happens. But if you take the same exact card and put it in a PSA holder and then put it in an SGC holder, with the same grade, it's always going to sell for more in the PSA holder (at least currently).

The primary reason we are seeing so many more cards now in SGC and CSG holders though is not just because of the turnaround times. PSA has recently moved the goalposts on us (again), and they are now grading vintage cards with completely laughable grades. EX-MT cards in 4 holders, EX cards in 3 holders. NM-MT cards in 5 holders. It's absolutely absurd. So people have just stopped sending them cards because they're going to get a higher grade at SGC now. I can't tell you how many cards I've submitted to PSA lately that I immediately crack out upon receiving them back and then just send them off to SGC where they get 1 to 2 full grade bumps. People overlook the fact that an SGC 6 is going to outsell a PSA 4 every time.

I guess this the piece I can't wrap my head around. If PSA moved the goalpots, why do people continue to submit to them? They graded more than 1 million cards in December, so they certainly aren't hurting for business.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

I guess this the piece I can't wrap my head around. If PSA moved the goalpots, why do people continue to submit to them? They graded more than 1 million cards in December, so they certainly aren't hurting for business.

If I remember the stats right, over 400k of those were for Pokemon (or similar) cards. And then a whole bunch for other sports. Less than 100k for baseball, if I remember correctly.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by raulus

If I remember the stats right, over 400k of those were for Pokemon (or similar) cards. And then a whole bunch for other sports. Less than 100k for baseball, if I remember correctly.

Just checked today for PSA:

Last 30 days
386k TCG
183k baseball

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

I guess this the piece I can't wrap my head around. If PSA moved the goalpots, why do people continue to submit to them? They graded more than 1 million cards in December, so they certainly aren't hurting for business.

Drew, Here’s the bottom line…People hate on PSA all they want Until they Score on a great grade on a big card. Sure they’re gonna bitch and complain all the way but they’re still using them because they scored once before and they’re gonna score again.

This is the power of PSA.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

Just checked today for PSA:

Last 30 days
386k TCG
183k baseball

Cool cool cool.

I wonder of that 183k, how many of those are for modern and/or ultra-modern. Obviously that market has dropped pretty dramatically of late, so volume is probably way down. But it's probably not nothing.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

I guess this the piece I can't wrap my head around. If PSA moved the goalpots, why do people continue to submit to them? They graded more than 1 million cards in December, so they certainly aren't hurting for business.

Maybe to answer your question more specifically, while I can't speak to everyone else, for me personally, I use PSA to grade a few last pieces that help to complete some master player sets that I'm working on, like my Master Mays or Master McCovey sets, usually only for items that are virtually impossible to find on the market in graded form, so I often end up picking them up raw and then getting them graded.

I suppose the other reason why I use them is for some oddball sets where I picked up some raw pieces, and I've decided to start a set on it, like the 1973 Topps Comics, where I recently picked up 23 of 24, or for the 1969 Globe Imports Checkerboard Backs, where I'm just a few pieces short of having a complete set now.

In both cases, if a piece grades one or two slots lower than it should have, I'm not sure that it bothers me that much, simply because these pieces are only going into my PC, and because the items are so difficult to find in any grade that just having one graded is good enough for me. And for the most part, while we all love to complain about TPGs, if I'm being honest, I'm not convinced that the grades I've been getting are really all that low.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by raulus

Maybe to answer your question more specifically, while I can't speak to everyone else, for me personally, I use PSA to grade a few last pieces that help to complete some master player sets that I'm working on, like my Master Mays or Master McCovey sets, usually only for items that are virtually impossible to find on the market in graded form, so I often end up picking them up raw and then getting them graded.

I suppose the other reason why I use them is for some oddball sets where I picked up some raw pieces, and I've decided to start a set on it, like the 1973 Topps Comics, where I recently picked up 23 of 24, or for the 1969 Globe Imports Checkerboard Backs, where I'm just a few pieces short of having a complete set now.

In both cases, if a piece grades one or two slots lower than it should have, I'm not sure that it bothers me that much, simply because these pieces are only going into my PC, and because the items are so difficult to find in any grade that just having one graded is good enough for me. And for the most part, while we all love to complain about TPGs, if I'm being honest, I'm not convinced that the grades I've been getting are really all that low.

The Power of PSA Registry !!! Love it :-) SGC is so far in the dust, they’re never gonna get yours and tens of thousand of others to stop or cross. It’s competitive, enjoyable/fun, and has an awesome platform/website. So powerful!

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

I guess this the piece I can't wrap my head around. If PSA moved the goalpots, why do people continue to submit to them? They graded more than 1 million cards in December, so they certainly aren't hurting for business.

999k of those 1M are modern or ultra modern though. They just don't care enough about the vintage market to properly train these new graders. I hope that changes.

There are still some graders there who know what they're doing, but good luck getting one of them on your submission. It's currently Russian roulette at PSA.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Drew, Here’s the bottom line…People hate on PSA all they want Until they Score on a great grade on a big card. Sure they’re gonna bitch and complain all the way but they’re still using them because they scored once before and they’re gonna score again.

This is the power of PSA.

Yep. It's the only reason they get any of my submissions at all. I crossed an undergraded SGC 3 Willie Mays RC to them and they gave it a 4. But I have a lot more crossovers bumped in the other direction.

[Snowman]

Good point about the registry. It's not just for set collectors. It's also for "set" collectors, as PSA creates random set lists that people enjoy chasing like the "Willie Mays Master Set" mentioned above, or the "HOF Rookie Set", etc.