1887 N172 Old Judge Error? (Plus a PSA screwup)

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Posted By: T E

This card came out of a farm house attic, in a box with a couple of non-sports tobacco from the era. I sent it off to PSA a couple of years ago before I knew better. I was going to list it on ebay last week, so I went to check the PSA population charts. It wasn't there. I called PSA and read them the serial #, they said "Sure it's there, it's Stearns Des Moines." I don't know how they get Stearns Des Moines from this card.

Anyway, my question is, how rare is this mis-spelling in this pose and should I just send it off to SGC? Seems like a waste of money since I already had it authenticated, if I can get PSA to fix their accounting error.

My last posting here was about a T206 "ghost" back which turned out to be Young portrait with a triple overstrike, haven't done anything with it, yet. If I send this one to SGC I'll send that one with it.

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Posted By: john/z28jd

Since they didnt list the team name on the label the only error they seemed to make was to you on the phone.Daniel Stearns is shown in the old judge with 2 different teams,Kansas City like yours,and Des Moines. There is no extra value for his named being spelled wrong and thats because the set has so many spelling errors that one doesnt stand out over others,and usually when they corrected it,neither is easier/harder to find over the other. I wouldnt change the holder unless you like the look of sgc's better,theres no extra value in getting it switched or relabeled.

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Posted By: T E

Thanks, makes sense, but I do want PSA to correct their records before I list, otherwise someone checking on serial # comes up with Des Moines...I do prefer the look of SGC but not enough to care here...

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Posted By: john/z28jd

According to their site they dont differentiate between teams for him so anyone checking the population report gets all variations/poses for him listed as one. If it makes you feel better he is wearing a Des Moines uniform on your card

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Posted By: T E

Thanks, John. Actually, PSA lists a Stearns for Des Moines and a Stearns for Kansas City. THey do not list a Sterns either way, but slabbed it as Sterns. Maybe I should just send it back to them and let them figure it out. I paid to have the thing graded, at least they could get it right.

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

We should grade cards.

The professional grading services should not. They aren't really professional, what they do hardly seems to be grading, and I won't type anything about the "servicing" that is involved.

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Posted By: john/z28jd

Gotcha.I dont actually have an account i just have a copy of their list as of this January and on that list all it says is Daniel Sterns,doesnt have the corrected spelling or any team variations listed.If what you say is the case then they should change it for their records.


As far as their labels, they dont seem to have a set pattern to their madness. Ive seen teams listed that the player appears on but not on that particular card such as listing him as des moines-kansas city,eventho the card says KC.Ive also seen it with no team,the correct team and spelling corrected and uncorrected. If they were to fix every card to the same standard,they would have to correct half the cards out there. I wouldnt send it back but id have them make the correction to their database

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Posted By: davidcycleback

For selling, I don't see any need to get it reslabbed by SCG or the 'error' fixed. If, in the auction description, you mention that the card says K.C. while he's pictured in a Des Moines uniform, that will answer any question a bidder might have before he has a question.

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

Here's a version of a Stearns, Des Moines card that seems to have all the correct information on the card but PSA spelled the name wrong on the label. Basically - "what John said..."

Definition of blasphemy following:

SGC also makes errors on these cards.

Ok, I said it. Believe me, I'm not taking a defensive stand on the PSA side (hardly). I'm just trying to point out that none of the grading companies really know how to truly handle the N172 offering of cards. They can't correctly date them. They don't catalog them with regard to any accepted catalog (the Brit book) criteria available and IMO they don't emphasize the most important facet (image) of the card when they grade them.

By the way, I have a couple of cards of a player with the nickname "Cannonball" (there were a few players with this nickname) and the flip on it only lists the player's name as Cannonball. I about crapped my pants laughing when I got them back from the grading company.

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Posted By: T E

Great help here as always. I called PSA last week, was told to email links to image of card, which I did. It has been a week since, but of course today is a holiday, so I'll cut them slack. Still, I wish there was someone at PSA I could call or email directly with a problem like this. But when I call the service dept at PSA, I feel like I am bothering them. I guess they are so used to fielding calls about Johnny Damon Gold Foil Refractor with Slice of Bat and Swatch of Uniform and Hair Folicle DNA True 1/1 that they just glaze over...

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Posted By: T E

This is the answer I got back from PSA customer service rep, who forwarded it to me.

Ok, his card will now show the card in the system as 1887 Old Judge Dan Stearns (Sterns-Kansas City). The pop will show that we have graded two cards. The catalog only lists him as Dan Stearns with Des Moines and Kansas City as variations. We have to assume that the Kansas City card has the miss spelled name. Let him know that they update the pop once a week on Mondays. So the change will not show up on the pop till then. If he puts in his cert # he will see the proper labeling. He can send the card in as a mechanical for the label to be corrected. Hope he is ok with this.

My comments: I went out with Miss Spelled when I was a kid. She was a very hot date. (Rim shot!) But seriously, folks. They are assuming that the KC card has misspelled name. It would be nice if they didn't have to assume, if in fact they kept detailed records of rare cards (any card from 1887 qualifies, in my mind, as rare) whenever they are graded. They should do it for themselves and for the hobby that they serve.

In sum, I have no idea if this card is a one-of-one or a one-of-two. And while I understand that spelling errors are common with this quirky issue, such information can influence price.

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Posted By: Joe_G.

Yep, misspellings are quite common in the Old Judge set. The "Catch, hands neck high" (pose #1 - your example) is catalogued as having both Stearns & Sterns variations, both with KC. Pose #2 (of 5) as either Stearns or Tearns, pose #3 as only Sterns and so on. For what it's worth, the Des Moine variations all have his name spelled correctly.

Best Regards,
Joe Gonsowski