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Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Postwar Sportscard Forums > Postwar Baseball Cards Forum (Pre-1980)

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  #1001  
Old 02-15-2018, 02:52 PM
steve B steve B is offline
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Rogers, Jones and Williams are registration issues, not actual cropping differences.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALR-bishop View Post
Here are the 4 Topps 1960 cards I mentioned in post 985. In each case the gray back is on top and white back on bottom

--On Grunwald 427, there is dot to right of his cap in insert on white back



--On Rodgers, 431, the white mark just above the logo in lower left is bigger in gray back version



--On Jones, 410, there is minor white area above the logo on gray back and a red area in the ball within the logo on white back



--On Williams, 414, there is a line/mark at end of his truncated arm in insert on gray back. Looks blueish to me in hand



I have not looked at the backs of all the cards in the series to see if there are differences beyond the stock differences. And would not be surprised if I missed other front differences
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  #1002  
Old 02-15-2018, 03:47 PM
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Don’t disagree at all. Most of the cards posted in this thread are just recurring print defects of one kind or another.
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  #1003  
Old 02-17-2018, 12:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALR-bishop View Post
Don’t disagree at all. Most of the cards posted in this thread are just recurring print defects of one kind or another.


That is true, however, every so often we are exposed to a nugget. I’ve been out of commission for a while but came out of hiding to share this 1960 Morrell crop variation of good ‘ol Charlie Neal (see scoreboard in background).
In the same set I have also seen crop variations of the Furillo (backstop poles), the Alston (yellow steps/number of fans in seats), the Moon (player jersey number/number of arches), and Koufax (size of flag pole tower).




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  #1004  
Old 02-17-2018, 06:32 AM
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Default Seeing red

Not sure if I put this one up or not after looking through over half the post to find it I gave up. Here is an interesting one of the red birds.
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  #1005  
Old 02-17-2018, 07:38 AM
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That's a true red bird card. Anyone know if that was a DP card. I have seen one seller pointing out a recuring cropping difference on that and other 61 cards in which there is a spacing difference between the names and team designations, or in this case the names and the title

Last edited by ALR-bishop; 02-17-2018 at 07:39 AM.
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  #1006  
Old 02-17-2018, 11:21 AM
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Just picked up this partial red pass on Pete Rose:
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  #1007  
Old 02-17-2018, 12:15 PM
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I am not a graded collector but if a card was otherwise a 10 what deduction would it get for such a print defect, if any ?
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  #1008  
Old 02-17-2018, 01:43 PM
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Kind of a grader's discretion. If they consider it a "print defect", it would get a PSA 9 (PD) and count the same for the registry as a 7. If the submitter requested no qualifiers, it could drop even lower. Or it could stay a 10 if the grader doesn't think it's a print defect.
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  #1009  
Old 02-17-2018, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee View Post
Just picked up this partial red pass on Pete Rose:
Funny you posted this Rose with the missing red pass, just the other day I came across this 77 A-ROD (the original) card with what appears to be the same missing pass.

Also found this 68 Cap Patterson with tons of extra blue.....his left arm just blends in with the sky.
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File Type: jpg 3.jpg (77.8 KB, 294 views)

Last edited by savedfrommyspokes; 02-17-2018 at 06:03 PM.
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  #1010  
Old 02-19-2018, 06:03 PM
Sliphorn Sliphorn is offline
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Default 1961 #393

Here is a similar item to the card above only with Cubs. Over printing?
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  #1011  
Old 02-21-2018, 07:35 AM
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The extra "white cloud" above the trees on this 68 Curt Flood card has been noted as a print variation, but until today, I had not noticed that this print variation has variations. The cloud appears to come in various sizes. I wondered if this cloud was similar to the cloud appearing on the 461-492 68 Topps cards. However, the Belanger card to the left of the Flood card does not appear to have a cloud appearing on it's right edge to match the Flood card's cloud.
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File Type: jpg 68 flood b.jpg (80.4 KB, 272 views)
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  #1012  
Old 02-21-2018, 09:33 AM
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Wonder if this defect shows up on any versions of his MB cards. It does not appear on the one in my MB set

Last edited by ALR-bishop; 02-21-2018 at 09:36 AM.
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  #1013  
Old 02-21-2018, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALR-bishop View Post
Wonder if this defect shows up on any versions of his MB cards. It does not appear on the one in my MB set
The variable clouds do not show up on my MB copy either or on any of the other MB copies of this card I have handled over the years. Based on how the MB cards were produced (on a sheet with FB and HR cards)separate from regular Topps cards, my guess is that this print variation is only going to be found on regular issued cards.
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  #1014  
Old 02-21-2018, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes View Post
This 63 Fleer BRobby came today as part of a group of cards I won on ebay....in the images for the listing, it appeared someone had colored the front borders of this card, but the green on the front is actually due to the front having the most profound wet sheet transfer I have ever come across. The green on the front border is very crisp and heavy as compared to other wet sheet transfers I have seen. The green on the front of this card is as dark of a green as I have on some backs of other cards from this set. While I have several 60 Fleer FB this has occurred with, I have never seen this with a 63 Fleer baseball card...anyone have any 63 Fleers like this?
I don't think that is a wet sheet transfer with two colors. More likely explanation is they ran the sheet through to clear the press during some sort of maintenance or set-up and then accidentally used it in the run rather than scrapping it.
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Last edited by Exhibitman; 02-21-2018 at 10:26 AM.
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  #1015  
Old 02-21-2018, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exhibitman View Post
I don't think that is a wet sheet transfer with two colors. More likely explanation is they ran the sheet through to clear the press during some sort of maintenance or set-up and then accidentally used it in the run rather than scrapping it.
Originally, I thought the same thing. But all of the print is mirror imaged (as it would be with a wet sheet transfer). Now, I am not a print process expert, but if the printer ran this sheet through to clear the press and caused this, wouldn't the printed portion appear normally instead of mirror imaged?

This card could also be caused by a combination of a wet sheet transfer (the mirror imaged print) and running the sheet back through the press (the green border) for some reason.
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  #1016  
Old 02-21-2018, 03:44 PM
steve B steve B is offline
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Most of the very clear wet sheet transfers are actually cylinder impressions.

The inked plate prints to the offset blanket, and that prints to the cardstock or paper, backed up by the impression cylinder, basically a smooth steel roller. Without it, imagine the difference between using a rubber stamp on a paper placed on a desk compared to a paper you're just holding.

If there's a misfeed, or some other reason the press runs without a sheet being between the offset blanket and the impression cylinder the offset sheet prints to the impression cylinder.
The next sheet, possibly more, but at a minimum the next sheet gets pressed against the impression cylinder by the offset blanket (Loads of force there!)
And that prints to the reverse side of that sheet.
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  #1017  
Old 02-21-2018, 04:40 PM
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Is this one well-known yet?

1953 Bowman Color - [Base] #1 - Davey Williams [Good*to*VG‑EX]
Courtesy of COMC.com
Three dots on bottom left corner of 1953 Bowman Color #1 Davey Williams. Recurring print defect. 3 of the 18 or so on COMC have it.
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Last edited by swarmee; 02-21-2018 at 04:40 PM.
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  #1018  
Old 02-21-2018, 06:08 PM
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It's much better known now, John

Last edited by ALR-bishop; 02-22-2018 at 08:20 AM.
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  #1019  
Old 02-21-2018, 06:24 PM
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For some reason my Copy/Paste buffer still had a Jerry Rice card I posted yesterday. Did you use the "wayback machine" to see the pre-edit or just happen to see it during the minute it was Rice?
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  #1020  
Old 02-22-2018, 08:08 AM
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Came across this card today....the back caught my attention first. As I flipped through the lot of cards this was card was a part of, I saw #25 and thought I had a Whitey Ford card. Not to be, the back was Tom Surdivant(?), and the front was Pete Runnels. It appears the front of Runnels card may have been pasted on the Sturdivant back. However, still curious about the #25 Sturdivant, I turned this up:


http://keitholbermann.mlblogs.com/2012/02/20/2114902/

This Sturdivant portion of this card is part of a 57 Topps salesman panel....does anyone know what the front of this panel looks like?
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File Type: jpg 2.jpg (73.2 KB, 245 views)
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  #1021  
Old 02-22-2018, 08:25 AM
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...

Last edited by cardinalcollector; 02-22-2018 at 10:15 AM. Reason: wrong link
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  #1022  
Old 02-22-2018, 08:29 AM
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  #1023  
Old 02-22-2018, 08:36 AM
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Thank you Al, I figured you would have this panel. It looks like someone pasted the Runnels over Hal Smith....not sure why though
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  #1024  
Old 02-22-2018, 08:49 AM
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Did Hal have an ex wife ?
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  #1025  
Old 02-22-2018, 10:20 AM
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Default 1957 Ad Strip

Seeing the ad strip, lets me know now that the error card I bought was from a strip. I will attach it and, the surprising OV showing Joe DeMaestri. I also am pasting in a card I stupidly had cut out of an ad strip given to me by a rep in 1957 showing Frank Robinson and the back of it. Who knows who were the other two as they were not Reds, and thus not interesting to me as a 10-year old.
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File Type: jpg 1957 Demaestri Error Back.jpg (77.5 KB, 267 views)
File Type: jpg 1957 Robinson Ad Panel Back.jpg (80.6 KB, 268 views)
File Type: jpg 1957 Robinson Ad Panel Front.jpg (75.5 KB, 267 views)
File Type: jpg 1957 #044 DeMaestri OV .jpg (77.7 KB, 269 views)
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  #1026  
Old 02-22-2018, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
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Did Hal have an ex wife ?
It could have been his arch nemesis, the "other" Hal Smith of the Cardinals.
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  #1027  
Old 02-22-2018, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sliphorn View Post
Seeing the ad strip, lets me know now that the error card I bought was from a strip. I will attach it and, the surprising OV showing Joe DeMaestri. I also am pasting in a card I stupidly had cut out of an ad strip given to me by a rep in 1957 showing Frank Robinson and the back of it. Who knows who were the other two as they were not Reds, and thus not interesting to me as a 10-year old.
Thomas, is the DeMaestri on the front side of the Sturdivant back card? If so, I wonder how many different combinations of these sales man strips are out there?
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  #1028  
Old 02-22-2018, 11:11 AM
steve B steve B is offline
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If they printed the backs onto regular sheet fronts, probably 36, depending on the exact layout and if they used a full 264 card sheet or a 132 card half sheet.
If they used a different size sheet it could be just about any number.
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  #1029  
Old 02-22-2018, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes View Post
It could have been his arch nemesis, the "other" Hal Smith of the Cardinals.
That could then possibly explain the 3 versions of the Hal Smith 1960 Leaf card, including the black out version...retailiation
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  #1030  
Old 02-23-2018, 08:12 AM
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Default 1957 Ad Panel

YES, DeMasetri is on the front and that is why I pasted it into the little collection. Why Robinson has an ad back instead of some other back, like the one we both have, is beyond me. This is great to learn though as I was always wondering why the card back had the wrong number, different cartoon, etc. Now it makes sense. I also passed on buying other versions of these cards due to price so there are many more most likely.
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  #1031  
Old 02-24-2018, 06:01 PM
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Not really a variation, but a 1960 Topps Ernie Banks with the bottom edge of the sheet showing some of the margin notes from the full sheet. Banks must have been on different positions of the sheet as very few examples with extra large bottom borders have the notations.
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  #1032  
Old 02-24-2018, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sb1 View Post
Not really a variation, but a 1960 Topps Ernie Banks with the bottom edge of the sheet showing some of the margin notes from the full sheet. Banks must have been on different positions of the sheet as very few examples with extra large bottom borders have the notations.
It has been discussed here a few times, here is one that shows more of it to where it can be made out to be 'SECTION I'.
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  #1033  
Old 02-24-2018, 08:47 PM
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Certainly not an intended change but not really a print defect either. Something else. Agree several versions appear in here somewhere
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  #1034  
Old 02-26-2018, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes View Post
Funny you posted this Rose with the missing red pass, just the other day I came across this 77 A-ROD (the original) card with what appears to be the same missing pass.
I may have officially jumped the printing flaw/variation shark with these, but they are fun and challenging to look for. A recurring print flaw on the 1977 sheet with Robin Yount and Carlton Fisk affected about 48 cards, four vertical rows of 12. I still need examples of Larry Biittner, Charlie Williams, Robin Yount, Bruce Boisclair, Andres Mora, Gaylord Perry, Jim Bibby, Eric Rasmussen, Gary Thomasson, and Ron Hodges.
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File Type: jpg 37933a_topps_star_wars_uncut.jpg (84.7 KB, 290 views)
File Type: jpg 77pf5.jpg (78.6 KB, 283 views)
File Type: jpg 77pf6.jpg (76.7 KB, 285 views)
File Type: jpg 77pf3.jpg (79.1 KB, 287 views)
File Type: jpg 77pf2.jpg (77.9 KB, 288 views)
File Type: jpg 77lf.jpg (78.4 KB, 284 views)
File Type: jpg 77 topps 7.jpg (79.4 KB, 287 views)
File Type: jpg 77 topps 8.jpg (79.2 KB, 289 views)
File Type: jpg 77 topps 9.jpg (80.2 KB, 286 views)

Last edited by Cliff Bowman; 02-26-2018 at 09:13 PM. Reason: Updated
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  #1035  
Old 02-27-2018, 04:26 AM
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1977 Topps - [Base] #635 - Robin Yount
Courtesy of COMC.com

This is probably the Yount: item 5109687 because the photo is washed out. Hard to tell on this one because there's not a lot of red in the image. But it sort of looks like the 1962 Green Tints with less definition throughout the image. Do you need the Rose I posted?
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  #1036  
Old 02-27-2018, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman View Post
I may have officially jumped the printing flaw/variation shark with these, but they are fun and challenging to look for. A recurring print flaw on the 1977 sheet with Robin Yount and Carlton Fisk affected about 48 cards, four vertical rows of 12. I still need examples of Larry Biittner, Charlie Williams, Robin Yount, Bruce Boisclair, Andres Mora, Gaylord Perry, Jim Bibby, Eric Rasmussen, Gary Thomasson, and Ron Hodges.
As always, nice work Cliff....I have about 25k 77 commons in my attic I have not touched in 15 years, guess I should take some time and go through them.
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  #1037  
Old 02-27-2018, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman View Post
I may have officially jumped the printing flaw/variation shark with these, but they are fun and challenging to look for. A recurring print flaw on the 1977 sheet with Robin Yount and Carlton Fisk affected about 48 cards, four vertical rows of 12. I still need examples of Larry Biittner, Charlie Williams, Robin Yount, Bruce Boisclair, Andres Mora, Gaylord Perry, Jim Bibby, Eric Rasmussen, Gary Thomasson, and Ron Hodges.
The picture of the sheet helps a lot Cliff! I have obtained a couple different versions of the E-Rod for my Dodgers collection over the years.
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  #1038  
Old 02-27-2018, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
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The picture of the sheet helps a lot Cliff! I have obtained a couple different versions of the E-Rod for my Dodgers collection over the years.
+1 on the picture helping. I just picked up the Fisk for my Fisk error collection.
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  #1039  
Old 02-27-2018, 07:55 PM
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+1 on the picture helping. I just picked up the Fisk for my Fisk error collection.
That's cool Ben, but just how many Fisk errors are out there?
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  #1040  
Old 02-27-2018, 08:06 PM
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That's cool Ben, but just how many Fisk errors are out there?
I just pick up weird print errors of some players. I picked up a Fisk rookie with a print offset a few years ago. Now I add his print error cards when I see them cheap. The very strange part is most of the players I do that with I don't even like. As an example I have an insane Randy Johnson collection and I hated him as a player.
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  #1041  
Old 03-02-2018, 05:33 PM
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Default 1958 #263 Bressoud

In the style of Bequer from the same set, Bressoud's bat appears to be more into the margin at left.
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  #1042  
Old 03-02-2018, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Sliphorn View Post
In the style of Bequer from the same set, Bressoud's bat appears to be more into the margin at left.
To me, this variance appears to be caused by a print shift
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  #1043  
Old 03-03-2018, 07:01 AM
Sliphorn Sliphorn is offline
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Default 1958 #263 Bressoud

Here is a scan showing three versions, one of which IS a color shift.
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File Type: jpg 1958 #263 Bressoud (3).jpg (78.1 KB, 465 views)
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Old 03-03-2018, 07:02 AM
ALR-bishop ALR-bishop is offline
Al Richter
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If a card differs from it's counterparts in some way for any reason is that enough for some here to collect it ? Does it matter if it is recuring or not ? Does the cause of the difference matter ? Cropping differences ? Registration error ? Does it matter how much the defect stands out ? How many collect miscuts ? Blank fronts/backs ? Wrong front/backs ?

Does anyone have a set of parameters they use ? All years or just some years ? How many end up picking up the ones that show up here if they were unaware of them previously ?
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Old 03-03-2018, 07:16 AM
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Ben North
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALR-bishop View Post
How many collect miscuts ? Blank fronts/backs ? Wrong front/backs ?

Does anyone have a set of parameters they use ? All years or just some years ? How many end up picking up the ones that show up here if they were unaware of them previously ?
I collect just about anything that makes a card not normal. No overall parameters because it varies by player, set, and even era what type of errors I collect. My collection is a very unfocused mess.
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Old 03-03-2018, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALR-bishop View Post
If a card differs from it's counterparts in some way for any reason is that enough for some here to collect it ? Does it matter if it is recuring or not ? Does the cause of the difference matter ? Cropping differences ? Registration error ? Does it matter how much the defect stands out ? How many collect miscuts ? Blank fronts/backs ? Wrong front/backs ?

Does anyone have a set of parameters they use ? All years or just some years ? How many end up picking up the ones that show up here if they were unaware of them previously ?
Too many questions for this early in the morning.....I enjoy collecting all of the options that you noted above, including print shifts.

I also like to understand what the cause of the difference is on each card like this that I come across....some are caused by print shifts, some are true variations, some are random ink marks, some are missing colors, etc .

To me, the cause of the difference does not make a card any more or less desirable, if the difference appeals to me, I'll collect it.
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Old 03-03-2018, 07:03 PM
steve B steve B is offline
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I collect nearly all of it.

And I do have parameters on some stuff, but they're hard to explain.

Anything that is from some difference on a plate I save with a set, The same for other stuff that's recurring.
A few examples
93 Upper deck has for a portion of the set, either
gloss only over the picture on the back.
Overall gloss on back
gloss over he picture but then covered by all over gloss.

88 Score the cards were "cut" from the sheets by 3 different die cuts
AND
have screening differences both front and back.

Most of the Gypsy queen sets are on two different types of cardstock, it's a very subtle difference.

different inks like 91 Topps

Any thing that's a printing error, I usually keep in a different box. Blank backs blank fronts, wrong backs, bad registration, creased before printing, die cut at the wrong end, missing foil stamps, wrong foil stamps....

Some of those are always really obvious. Some I don't actively go after anymore.
Others, like registration errors have to be pretty severe for the issue for them to be interesting to me. Like the cards above, the one on the right with red printed low would probably get saved, the one on the left and previous with a for the 50's trivial shift wouldn't. That same shift on a 2018 card would get saved, registration is so much better today that it would be interesting.
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Old 03-03-2018, 07:05 PM
steve B steve B is offline
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BTW, none of that says that someone who likes different stuff in either direction shouldn't collect it anyway they like.
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Old 03-04-2018, 06:55 AM
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Steve-- I have been trying to reign in my own collecting parameters for oddities, which currently is limited to I know if I want it when I see it
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Old 03-04-2018, 04:11 PM
steve B steve B is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALR-bishop View Post
Steve-- I have been trying to reign in my own collecting parameters for oddities, which currently is limited to I know if I want it when I see it
If only I could be so concise and accurate....
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