enough is enough

KMayUSA6060 · #1 10-02-2017, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

That's not correct. The Supreme Court ruling applies to public schools and public school programs. The Christian academy is exempt because it is not a public school and does not receive public school funds. A Christian Academy would, for example, not need to comply with Title IX, a public school does.

While the ruling may or may not extend to school programs (nothing I've read specifically mentions sports or other extracurricular activities), I personally don't think it should extend to school programs. Those are privileges, not so much a right. That's what changed for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve B

While his getting in to OCS wasn't easy, and wasn't for several others at the same time, he was eventually commissioned, and was assigned to the 761st tank battalion.

So not a lesser position, despite the entire military being segregated at the time.

The rest of his military career was a complete mess because of racism though.

Steve B

Interesting. Thank you very much for sharing that.

packs · #2 10-02-2017, 11:30 AM

Sports programs are publicly funded they are not afforded anymore rights than any other public school program in school or after school. The law is clear. You cannot punish or otherwise dissuade a student in a public school from participating in any form of non-violent or silent protest on school grounds.

vintagetoppsguy · #3 10-02-2017, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

Sports programs are publicly funded they are not afforded anymore rights than any other public school program in school or after school. The law is clear. You cannot punish or otherwise dissuade a student in a public school from participating in any form of non-violent or silent protest on school grounds.

I disagree, but it's not worth arguing anymore.

Where's the law that says they coach has to play them?

packs · #4 10-02-2017, 12:04 PM

What do you disagree with? You didn't identify the difference between Louisiana public schools and a private Christian academy in Texas. If you disagree with the Supreme Court, well, I have bad news for you....

Title IX applies to sports programs, which you say are "extracurricular activities" that aren't subject to Supreme Court rulings. If that is so, then how do you explain the fact that public schools are required to comply with Title IX, which is a Supreme Court ruling? It applies to sport unequivocally.

Lastly, you did not even read the article I posted nor did you digest what it says. You immediately pointed to another article that had no bearing and no relevance to what I posted.

packs · #5 10-02-2017, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

While the ruling may or may not extend to school programs (nothing I've read specifically mentions sports or other extracurricular activities), I personally don't think it should extend to school programs. Those are privileges, not so much a right. That's what changed for me.

I don't really know what else to say other than a Supreme Court ruling is a Supreme Court ruling. Title IX is a Supreme Court ruling as well. It unequivocally applies to sports. How do I know? Because it is the law that says you must provide for both sexes, even in terms of sports teams. Now, you said that a sports program was "extracurricular" and not under the ruling. But if that is true, how do you explain Title IX and the law that says a public school must comply?

KMayUSA6060 · #6 10-02-2017, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

I don't really know what else to say other than a Supreme Court ruling is a Supreme Court ruling. Title IX is a Supreme Court ruling as well. It unequivocally applies to sports. How do I know? Because it is the law that says you must provide for both sexes, even in terms of sports teams. Now, you said that a sports program was "extracurricular" and not under the ruling. But if that is true, how do you explain Title IX and the law that says a public school must comply?

Don't get me started on Title IX. That's a joke of a law in and of itself.

The Supreme Court says a lot of things. Doesn't mean I have to agree with them; I just have to abide by the laws.

packs · #7 10-02-2017, 01:49 PM

That is the exact issue I brought up. Louisiana Parish doesn't know the law, and isn't acting within it when it threatens to punish public school students protected under Tinker vs. Des Moines by the highest court in our country.

KMayUSA6060 · #8 10-02-2017, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

That is the exact issue I brought up. Louisiana Parish doesn't know the law, and isn't acting within it when it threatens to punish public school students protected under Tinker vs. Des Moines by the highest court in our country.

Title IX visibly applies to sports. Tinker v. Des Moines does not.

packs · #9 10-02-2017, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

Title IX visibly applies to sports. Tinker v. Des Moines does not.

Tinker v. Des Moines applies to any and all silent, non-violent protests that take place on public school grounds. It is about protecting civil liberties, not protesting specifically and it protects public school students on school grounds. It's history is steeped in students who chose to wear black armbands to school during the Vietnam War.

vintagetoppsguy · #10 10-02-2017, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

Tinker v. Des Moines applies to any and all silent, non-violent protests that take place on public school grounds. It is about protecting civil liberties, not protesting specifically and it protects public school students on school grounds. It's history is steeped in students who chose to wear black armbands to school during the Vietnam War.

For the sake of argument, let's just say you're right. So, once again, where's the law that says they coach has to play them?

cammb · #11 10-02-2017, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

That is the exact issue I brought up. Louisiana Parish doesn't know the law, and isn't acting within it when it threatens to punish public school students protected under Tinker vs. Des Moines by the highest court in our country.

The Supreme Court does not make law. Only congress and states can. Congress can negate any Supreme Court decision

packs · #12 10-02-2017, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cammb

The Supreme Court does not make law. Only congress and states can. Congress can negate any Supreme Court decision

Congress cannot overrule a Supreme Court decision. The decision is the interpretation of the law. Congress can change the law that the court decided upon, or amend a portion of the Constitution, but it cannot ignore the ruling of the court.

Peter_Spaeth · #13 10-02-2017, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

Congress cannot overrule a Supreme Court decision. The decision is the interpretation of the law. Congress can change the law that the court decided upon, or amend a portion of the Constitution, but it cannot ignore the ruling of the court.

Congress can only propose an amendment, not amend. That's up to the states.

cammb · #14 10-02-2017, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

Congress cannot overrule a Supreme Court decision. The decision is the interpretation of the law. Congress can change the law that the court decided upon, or amend a portion of the Constitution, but it cannot ignore the ruling of the court.

Again, reread what I posted. No mention of congress overruling Supreme Court

Michael B · #15 10-02-2017, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

I don't really know what else to say other than a Supreme Court ruling is a Supreme Court ruling. Title IX is a Supreme Court ruling as well. It unequivocally applies to sports. How do I know? Because it is the law that says you must provide for both sexes, even in terms of sports teams. Now, you said that a sports program was "extracurricular" and not under the ruling. But if that is true, how do you explain Title IX and the law that says a public school must comply?

FYI: Title IX is not a Supreme Court ruling. They have ruled on it and clarified it, but it is a federal statute. Title IX is a portion of the United States Education Amendments of 1972, Public Law No. 92‑318, 86 Stat. 235 (June 23, 1972), codified at 20 U.S.C. §§ 1681–1688

packs · #16 10-02-2017, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael B

FYI: Title IX is not a Supreme Court ruling. They have ruled on it and clarified it, but it is a federal statute. Title IX is a portion of the United States Education Amendments of 1972, Public Law No. 92‑318, 86 Stat. 235 (June 23, 1972), codified at 20 U.S.C. §§ 1681–1688

Yes, but it's validity is upheld by the Supreme Court. That's what makes it federal law.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

You don't know what it has to do with anything?

It relates to what you said because even though the school or coach may not legally be able to punish them, they can get around that by just not playing them. They still get punished, it's just unofficial. Get it now? Need a 5 year old to explain it to you?

There is a big difference between official policy and unofficial policy. What you're saying didn't happen. What I'm saying did. So THAT is the difference. That is why what you're saying has no bearing. It is fantasy. I am talking about practice.

Michael B · #17 10-02-2017, 03:03 PM

[QUOTE=packs;1706716]Yes, but it's validity is upheld by the Supreme Court. That's what makes it federal law.

Actually, it was federal law once it was signed by President Nixon. The challenges that arose, upon which the Supreme Court ruled, were to specific points in the law and when and where it applied i.e. Grove v. Bell 465 US 555 (1984), not the law itself.

packs · #18 10-02-2017, 03:06 PM

I don't want to get into a war of semantics when the intricate details aren't really making or breaking anything. My point was the supreme court sets rules public schools and colleges have to follow, and one of those rules is Title IX in its current form and another is Tinker v Des Moines. I brought up Title IX only to demonstrate that public school policy applies to all aspects of the public school system, sports included.

KMayUSA6060 · #19 10-02-2017, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

I don't want to get into a war of semantics when the intricate details aren't really making or breaking anything. My point was the supreme court sets rules public schools and colleges have to follow, and one of those rules is Title IX in its current form and another is Tinker v Des Moines. I brought up Title IX only to demonstrate that public school policy applies to all aspects of the public school system, sports included.

Actually, the semantics do apply here. Title IX, as stated above, was a federal law prior to the Supreme Court rulings. Therefore, the law was upheld/adjusted accordingly.

In the same sense, while Tinker v. Des Moines has been ruled on by the Supreme Court, it doesn't specifically mention sports and, if it ever got that far, could be ruled upon again to adjust for any situations such as this. Obviously it's a case (not a law; the 1st Amendment is the law), but it can still be adjusted.

That is what we are saying. Yes, the Supreme Court made a ruling, but it is also up for interpretation, and could be ruled upon again to specifically include or exclude sports.