Did PSA get a free pass on The American Greed show?

[Flintboy]

I don't think they mentioned PSA by name once.....Quite a few things concerned me regarding that company including the Ruth card getting bumped significantly from the "other company's " holder. Being the industry leader that they are, they need to do better.

[insidethewrapper]

Didn't PSA also give that trimmed Wagner a High Grade ?

[ngnichols]

Yes, they did.

[Kenny Cole]

Yes and yes. The trimmed Wagner that Gretzky and McNall bought was PSA's first graded card and its unveiling as a card grading company if I recall correctly. So yes, I think it is fair to have some questions and ask why PSA gets a pass.

[Orioles1954]

It's only a one hour program.

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

It's only a one hour program.

Right. That deserves its own episode.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

Yes and yes. The trimmed Wagner that Gretzky and McNall bought was PSA's first graded card and its unveiling as a card grading company if I recall correctly. So yes, I think it is fair to have some questions and ask why PSA gets a pass.

There have been rumors abounding for many years that the whole grading gala for the T206 rollout Wagner by PSA and Mastro was a staged event from the get go. As the story goes, Bad Bill approached, I guess, Collector's Universe brass with the Wagner in hand (yet trimmed or not, who knows?) and basically said, 'let's make a deal.' -- perhaps something like I will pay you
X to make this T206 Wagner Wonder Card the first card you grade, but it must be a nrmt/mt 8. The publicity for both of us will be terrific etc. etc.
Perhaps just another urban legend about this sad chapter in hobby history.

[LeftHandedDane]

I am one of the many collectors who prefer raw cards to graded. I frankly find the obsession over a 6 vs. a 7 vs. an 8, which to my eye look virtually the same (and all nice) to be uninteresting. But I do understand the financial implications of those differences, and therefore strongly believe that any company that performs this service has a fiduciary obligation to be consistent and accurate in its performance.

But at an even more base level, many collectors like me have been told that we should buy slabbed cards whenever we are purchasing something of any real value as protection against buying a fake or tampered card. Now while I believe that PSA catches the fakes, the fact that I cannot confidently believe that a slabbed card has not in fact been tampered with simply gives me yet another reason to stay aware from them altogether.

[turtleguy64]

I was waiting for any kind of reference to PSA since the Wagner was their first graded card.Joe Orlando once again gets a pass.How does this guy wriggle off the hook so many times??????? Plus.yes,my heart was breaking for Evers complaining about getting ripped off after doing a ripping off of his own on an elderly garage sale grandpa.

[bnorth]

Why wouldn't PSA get a free pass? From what I have read on the whole Mastro debacle they all got a free pass including Mastro himself. I know some might disagree but as someone who has spent some time locked up I would do his slap on the wrist sentence anytime for the $ he made.

[turtleguy64]

Mastro really got a freebie with that sentence while Doug Allen took a big hit,mainly for squealing on the Fed wire placement.Yet it still grinds me about mastro's relatively light sentence.Govt. had a chance to make a statement and blew it.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by turtleguy64

Mastro really got a freebie with that sentence while Doug Allen took a big hit,mainly for squealing on the Fed wire placement.Yet it still grinds me about mastro's relatively light sentence.Govt. had a chance to make a statement and blew it.

My guess is you don't know the whole story. What info or help was given for the lighter Mastro sentence?

I think Ryan and SA Brusokas did a great job as well as Jeff L. Kudos to all 3 of them.
Let's hope some more hobby fraudsters get taken down. And if anyone sees something really egregious and bad in our hobby I hope they will act on it. Or at least PM me .....

.

[Fballguy]

Never been a fan of card grading and have only done it a few times. How in the world could PSA not notice a trimmed card? That seems like "Card Altering 101". And they stay in business? How can anyone trust them after that?

[turtleguy64]

Leon,forgot to add : Mastro found God just in time.Maybe he had a religious leaning sentencing judge.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by Flintboy

I don't think they mentioned PSA by name once.....Quite a few things concerned me regarding that company including the Ruth card getting bumped significantly from the "other company's " holder. Being the industry leader that they are, they need to do better.

I was thinking the same exact thing once the episode ended. PSA should have been strongly scrutinized for the Wagner and those Evers cards that went from SGC 4 to PSA 6. I also seem to recall that during the criminal hearings it was disclosed that Mastro acknowledged to a wired witness or in a wire tap that ALL the cards he submitted to PSA were altered. That to me was the biggest scandal in all of this. I'd rather overpay for a good card than pay anything for a bad card. What a scandal and to my knowledge none of the widespread damage has ever been redressed.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

I was thinking the same exact thing once the episode ended. PSA should have been strongly scrutinized for the Wagner and those Evers cards that went from SGC 4 to PSA 6. I also seem to recall that during the criminal hearings it was disclosed that Mastro acknowledged to a wired witness or in a wire tap that ALL the cards he submitted to PSA were altered. That to me was the biggest scandal in all of this. I'd rather overpay for a good card than pay anything for a bad card. What a scandal and to my knowledge none of the widespread damage has ever been redressed.

Altered cards are pervasive. Some cards are more altered than others. And as long as they are encapsulated, most people don't seem to care.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Altered cards are pervasive. Some cards are more altered than others. And as long as they are encapsulated, most people don't seem to care.

I live on the hope that my graded cards are not altered, always assuming that whoever graded them had more knowledge than me and had no motivation other than grading the card accurately.

We can only hope that all graders are monitored, scrutinized and held accountable for their work.

Pie-in-the-Sky? Perhaps.

[Bicem]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

Pie-in-the-Sky? Perhaps.

Definitely!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

I live on the hope that my graded cards are not altered, always assuming that whoever graded them had more knowledge than me and had no motivation other than grading the card accurately.

We can only hope that all graders are monitored, scrutinized and held accountable for their work.

Pie-in-the-Sky? Perhaps.

There are really good card doctors out there who get stuff past well-intentioned graders, particularly where TPGs basically are giving most cards a relatively quick look and are not running a crime lab. Good alteration can be hard to detect; many experts have commented on this. I think this is the main problem, although I have suspicions about other things.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Altered cards are pervasive. Some cards are more altered than others. And as long as they are encapsulated, most people don't seem to care.

How sad and how true.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

How sad and how true.

It's the hobby's dirty not-so-secret, every AH and dealer out there knows (IMO of course) they are dealing with altered material.

[prestigecollectibles]

Here is a You Tube video called "Holy Grail: The T206 Honus Wagner" produced by ESPN with Keith Olbermann.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUTbxT_CleE

[The Nasty Nati]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

I was thinking the same exact thing once the episode ended. PSA should have been strongly scrutinized for the Wagner and those Evers cards that went from SGC 4 to PSA 6. I also seem to recall that during the criminal hearings it was disclosed that Mastro acknowledged to a wired witness or in a wire tap that ALL the cards he submitted to PSA were altered. That to me was the biggest scandal in all of this. I'd rather overpay for a good card than pay anything for a bad card. What a scandal and to my knowledge none of the widespread damage has ever been redressed.

Personally, I think chances are very high that most tobacco cards graded PSA 6 or higher have been 'professionally' trimmed. The likelihood that a card stayed that crisp over 100 years is slim. I'm sure there are genuine examples out there, but very very few.

That's why I collect in the 3-5 range. They all have some corner wear, so you know it's legit...also I just can't afford most super high-end grades