How much should I spend on a 1952 topps psa 1 Mantle?

[begsu1013]

disagreeing, jake. it's simply another case of the auction factor.

i couldn't even count the number of times the same exact card has been sitting at a BIN (for months) and then it gets auctioned off and absolutely shatters the bin price

but, will agree not all 4.5's will go for $7K. but well centered ones w/o roller marks and that have that eye appeal probably will!

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

disagreeing, jake. it's simply another case of the auction factor.

i couldn't even count the number of times the same exact card has been sitting at a BIN (for months) and then it gets auctioned off and absolutely shatters the bin price

but, will agree not all 4.5's will go for $7K. but well centered ones w/o roller marks and that have that eye appeal probably will!

right but there are certain price points that the card would sell at BIN...its becomes more sketchy when need an auction to go over...if that card was listed for $3,000..it sells right? doesn't go to auction.....always a risk to hope to get at a future auction what a card wouldn't sell for on BIN that is close in time...

[begsu1013]

ya lost me.

[pokerplyr80]

Auctions have an element of risk to them as you need two bidders who want the card to drive the price up. Sometimes they may get more than a BIN price because of this, sometimes less. I agree with Bob and MattyC though in that nice centered cards without common flaws are going for big premiums, especially the big Mantle cards. I would not expect to find a dead centered 4.5 51 Mantle again for less than this one sold for. If I did I would probably buy it.

[begsu1013]

not if i get there first! 😉

[rgpete]

52 Mantle is just like a "Jeep" JUST EMPTY EVERY POCKET

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Auctions have an element of risk to them as you need two bidders who want the card to drive the price up. Sometimes they may get more than a BIN price because of this, sometimes less. I agree with Bob and MattyC though in that nice centered cards without common flaws are going for big premiums, especially the big Mantle cards. I would not expect to find a dead centered 4.5 51 Mantle again for less than this one sold for. If I did I would probably buy it.

so next buy it now for 6500 its all you..

[MattyC]

Man, if I saw that card at $6500 and didn't have one I would have hit that BIN hella fast.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Man, if I saw that card at $6500 and didn't have one I would have hit that BIN hella fast.

but the point is you don't buy it....that's like saying on B/S/T you love someones card 'but wont buy it'...haha

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by CW

I think that may be a record for a PSA 4.5, although an SGC 55 sold at REA last summer for $7800.

The auction did have a few red flags, too, like the fact that he had it graded this year yet the holder had no front hologram (I guess early this year they still weren't out?). The seller mentioned he pulled the card from a pack at age 8, and the photo made the holder appear to possibly have some frosting on the right edge. Just seemed like a weird auction. I had a snipe placed and was somewhat relieved it was blown out of the water.

Yeah on the one hand he did post the old flip (I had asked him to but on the other hand the candy store story, the lack of any feedback for a year, and just the whole karma of the auction did not feel reassuring.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

the fact the no one bought it at a bin for 6500 still says somethings...I wouldn't be assuming all 4.5s go for 7k now...

When it had the BIN he had not posted the flip of the old 6 which lent some measure of credibility.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Yeah on the one hand he did post the old flip (I had asked him to but on the other hand the candy store story, the lack of any feedback for a year, and just the whole karma of the auction did not feel reassuring.

plus the lack of paperwork he said he had in the questions and answers and wouldn't produce it....it funny though there probably like 5 or 6 guys ..several here from net54 who are the first responders on all new listings....

still though peter there was your centered 4 that you keep asking about on net54....I been waiting on a yellow/red ruth ....maybe someone has a psa 6 ruth they will submit for a bump and it will come back a 4.5 ...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Man, if I saw that card at $6500 and didn't have one I would have hit that BIN hella fast.

Need a card or not, I need to feel pretty sure that the seller is legit before making a purchase at that level. Too many loopholes even with all the protection supposedly out there.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Need a card or not, I need to feel pretty sure that the seller is legit before making a purchase at that level. Too many loopholes even with all the protection supposedly out there.

right I don't feel like going though all the headache with the credit card/ebay challenge..psa resubmit etc...if I had a $5000+ card to sell I would surely get it in a new holder..

[GregC]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

but the point is you don't buy it....that's like saying on B/S/T you love someones card 'but wont buy it'...haha

I think point is he already has one. I second Matt's statement. Given the current climate and how nice that card was (no roller marks, well centered, sharp focus) I would have hit the bin as well if I didn't already own one. If you aren't looking to make a quick buck and want one for you collection, today's "overpay" is tomorrow's bargain.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by GregC

I think point is he already has one. I second Matt's statement. Given the current climate and how nice that card was (no roller marks, well centered, sharp focus) I would have hit the bin as well if I didn't already own one. If you aren't looking to make a quick buck and want one for you collection, today's "overpay" is tomorrow's bargain.

right you loved the card 'but wouldn't of bought it' at that price.....which goes to my point..i not going to count on a card going for auction at a price higher than no one is willing to pay at that BIN price..no matter the reason...

[GregC]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

right you loved the card 'but wouldn't of bought it' at that price.....which goes to my point..i not going to count on a card going for auction at a price higher than no one is willing to pay at that BIN price..no matter the reason...

If I did not already own a 51 bowman I would have gladly paid $6500 for that particular example.

I already have the card so I'm not in the market for it. I believe Matt was making the same point.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Real or not, we are really starting to see the 51B grab some props. What impresses so much about the difficulty of the 51B Mick is the registration problems-- if the Yankee cap isn't blurry, it's the outline of the bat. Then there's the centering. Then there's those two, or sometimes one, vertical lines. It's a major card and also so hard to find a nice one, despite the very misleading overall pop number.

Gum stains on the back too -- and a slightly blurry face too, and/or washed out color -- believe me I know every damn reason I haven't bought one yet.

[MattyC]

Man, I forgot the gum stains, too, Peter. Good call. I think half the total pop across all grades or maybe worse suffers from one or more of the aforementioned flaws. I've seen 7s that have some of these problems. These are the challenges that make card collecting so fun. It's like when I found a 67 that had no red dot over the YANKEES, or a 57 that was actually in focus, LOL. I swear if I ever see let alone hold a 57 Mantle that is both dead nuts centered and focused I might have a heart attack on the spot.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Man, I forgot the gum stains, too, Peter. Good call. I think half the total pop across all grades or maybe worse suffers from one or more of the aforementioned flaws. I've seen 7s that have some of these problems. These are the challenges that make card collecting so fun. It's like when I found a 67 that had no red dot over the YANKEES, or a 57 that was actually in focus, LOL. I swear if I ever see let alone hold a 57 Mantle that is both dead nuts centered and focused I might have a heart attack on the spot.

I had one in an 8 years ago, or at least by memory it was. Pretty nice focus on this one at least by my standards, although the centering isn't quite there.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

so next buy it now for 6500 its all you..

I do have one and would hit the BIN for 6500 on one centered like the one we're discussing if it was from a seller I trusted. There were a lot of red flags, and I didn't even see it until the BIN was over and the auction had started.

If you come across one I'll even buy it here to save you the ebay fees

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I do have one and would hit the BIN for 6500 on one centered like the one we're discussing if it was from a seller I trusted. There were a lot of red flags, and I didn't even see it until the BIN was over and the auction had started.

If you come across one I'll even buy it here to save you the ebay fees

can it be a psa 4 or have to be a psa 4.5..

how high did you bid in that auction by the way?

[begsu1013]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I had one in an 8 years ago, or at least by memory it was. Pretty nice focus on this one at least by my standards, although the centering isn't quite there.

was it 9.25.13 by chance? that's when i got mine. if so, i love our 58! slight centering issues, but been trying to find an even somewhat centered signed one to compliment it for my basic set and it's slim pickings.

forget needle in a haystack. it's more like a hayfield!

i do have one fellow that keeps tempting me w/ his for sale, but just when i think i've got it out from underneath him, he turns over and wakes up...

yes, you know who you are!

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

can it be a psa 4 or have to be a psa 4.5..

how high did you bid in that auction by the way?

I did not bid in this past auction for the issues about the seller I mentioned earlier. I did not feel comfortable. I would be open to upgrading my 51 to a centered example graded 4-6.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I did not bid in this past auction for the issues about the seller I mentioned earlier. I did not feel comfortable. I would be open to upgrading my 51 to a centered example graded 4-6.

Two weeks later, for what it's worth, no feedback has been left on the 51B 4.5, nor did the seller leave feedback for the high bidder.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Two weeks later, for what it's worth, no feedback has been left on the 51B 4.5, nor did the seller leave feedback for the high bidder.

they appreciated each other silently...

[Johnny630]

That's a sweet 57 Mickey Bob, very nicley centered. Super hard to find a nice centered 57 mantle in any grade.

[PolarBear]

Conversations like this make me realize what a great value coins still are.

For the 10k-100k price of a 52 Topps Mantle with thousands still existing, you could get any number of rare gold coins with less than 100 still existing.

[Bestdj777]

Originally Posted by PolarBear

Conversations like this make me realize what a great value coins still are.

For the 10k-100k price of a 52 Topps Mantle with thousands still existing, you could get any number of rare gold coins with less than 100 still existing.

You could also get a number of Mantle cards with fewer than 100 in existence, but they don't have the same universal appeal as a 52 Topps. If I told a non-collecting friend I owned a Pittsburgh Playing card of Mantle or some gold coin, they wouldn't know or care a bit. Most of my friends would be interested in seeing the 52 Topps though.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Bestdj777

You could also get a number of Mantle cards with fewer than 100 in existence, but they don't have the same universal appeal as a 52 Topps. If I told a non-collecting friend I owned a Pittsburgh Playing card of Mantle or some gold coin, they wouldn't know or care a bit. Most of my friends would be interested in seeing the 52 Topps though.

find a coin forum to discuss all of that, im sure coin forums are a lot of fun..

its funny how people still talk about rareness versus demand...who cares if there is one of something if nobody wants it.

[PolarBear]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

find a coin forum to discuss all of that, im sure coin forums are a lot of fun..

its funny how people still talk about rareness versus demand...who cares if there is one of something if nobody wants it.

There's plenty of rare coins which aren't popular either. That wasn't my point though. We're talking about blue chip items from cards and coins, not something that "nobody wants". In fact, there's not a gold coin in existence that "nobody wants".

I'm just pointing out what an over priced, over hyped, poor "value" the 52 Topps is. As someone pointed out earlier in the thread, the 51 Bowman is a much better card for your money and is actually his rookie card, unlike the 52 Topps.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by PolarBear

There's plenty of rare coins which aren't popular either. That wasn't my point though. We're talking about blue chip items from cards and coins, not something that "nobody wants". In fact, there's not a gold coin in existence that "nobody wants".

I'm just pointing out what an over priced, over hyped, poor "value" the 52 Topps is. As someone pointed out earlier in the thread, the 51 Bowman is a much better card for your money and is actually his rookie card, unlike the 52 Topps.

again will be an argument what is 'blue chip' if more people willing to pay more for the card than the coin and they could of been purchased at the same price last year...then the 'blue chip' coin isn't worth as much as the card....but maybe in the future the coin is worth more than card..i see what you are saying but who knows the future

[begsu1013]

when everyone else is digging for gold, sell shovels.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by PolarBear

There's plenty of rare coins which aren't popular either. That wasn't my point though. We're talking about blue chip items from cards and coins, not something that "nobody wants". In fact, there's not a gold coin in existence that "nobody wants".

I'm just pointing out what an over priced, over hyped, poor "value" the 52 Topps is. As someone pointed out earlier in the thread, the 51 Bowman is a much better card for your money and is actually his rookie card, unlike the 52 Topps.

It's sure managed to fool a lot of people for a long time.

[MattyC]

Originally Posted by PolarBear

There's plenty of rare coins which aren't popular either. That wasn't my point though. We're talking about blue chip items from cards and coins, not something that "nobody wants". In fact, there's not a gold coin in existence that "nobody wants".

I'm just pointing out what an over priced, over hyped, poor "value" the 52 Topps is. As someone pointed out earlier in the thread, the 51 Bowman is a much better card for your money and is actually his rookie card, unlike the 52 Topps.

Overhyped my ass. What's the definition of that anyway, pray tell? More like it is what it is, which is something that many find desirable and iconic, a standard bearer of their hobby for over three decades now. And will always be so.

And who are you to determine what's a "value" or "better" for another's money? I could buy a 52 Topps Mick today, and if I've gotten enjoyment and happiness for my money, that's "value" to me. It's also specious to pit his 51 against his 52 as if they're locked in some asinine competition. They are both fantastic baseball cards, and I'd venture the collector who likes one likes the other.

[PolarBear]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Overhyped my ass. What's the definition of that anyway, pray tell?

I'd start with all the hype declaring this his rookie card. Even people in this thread think it's his rookie. The 52 Mantle is riding on the wave of the 52 Topps set being iconic, not that the 52 Mantle itself is iconic.

Originally Posted by MattyC

And who are you to determine what's a "value" or "better" for another's money? I could buy a 52 Topps Mick today, and if I've gotten enjoyment and happiness for my money, that's "value" to me.

It's funny how people get so emotionally wrapped up in other people's internet forum opinions. If you like the 52 Mantle, well good for you. Not everyone sees the same value in that.

Originally Posted by MattyC

It's also specious to pit his 51 against his 52 as if they're locked in some asinine competition. They are both fantastic baseball cards, and I'd venture the collector who likes one likes the other.

It makes perfect sense to compare the two when half of the baseball card world thinks the 52 Topps is Mantle's rookie card. But, if we're just talking about random Mantle cards and not his rookie, heck, the 53 Bowman is a better card than the 52 Topps.

[begsu1013]

the 53b is a sweet ass card. all im saying.

ya'll please continue...

[pokerplyr80]

The 51 Mantle may be under appreciated but as others have mentioned the 52 topps is the most iconic card in the hobby, aside from the t206 wagner, and much more attainable. It's worth what it's worth because so many people are willing to spend that much to own one. I only wish I had bought a higher grade example when I had the chance.

How many Wagner cards are more rare than the t206, yet sell for less than a couple of percent of its value? The e90-1 throwing Wagner, for example, has a total PSA population of 12 and the t206 has a pop of 35. I don't think we will see many threads saying the t206 is all hype and some other card should sell for more, even one that was issued earlier and could be considered his rookie.

[GregC]

One thing you can set your watch to... Any thread about a 52 topps mantle will bring out at least one or two irrational "overrated" posts. Somehow it has managed to be overrated for some thirty odd years.

I can appreciate anyone's opinion but pardon me if I don't rush to trade my 311 for some coins anytime soon.

[ALR-bishop]

I collect all Topps and Bowman sets, so I needed Mantle cards to complete sets. Since I like to collect hobby recognized variations with my sets, this unfortunately required 2 of the 52 Mantles.

I have some gold (not coins) as a diversification investment, but cards are just a hobby for me, albeit in some cases an expensive one.

I personally get a kick out of the debate about the value of the 52 Mantle card and how much some folks get so worked up about the rookie card thing. I do agree that it usually seems people who disparage the 52 Mantle card don't have it

Also agree that some of the Topps Mantle cards( not the 52) are among the rarest in the hobby, much more so than the T 206 Wagner. But they are from obscure sets with little recognition or following.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Putting the debate to one side, I do find it odd that SGC labels the 52T his rookie card, when clearly it is not.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Id rather have a PSA 1 graded authentic nicely centered mantle with non noticeable trimming and otherwise clear card or even have a small spot or two versus a destroyed super wrinkled PSA 1 card..

[PolarBear]

One thing for sure, people who own a 52 Mantle seem to have a deep emotional investment in it.

I rarely saw that level of emotional investment with coins. Those people generally didn't care what other people's opinions were.

Ok, so, debate aside, I'd take the card with vibrant color and creases over the dull, washed out card.

I'd still rather have a 51 Bowman though, and keep the change.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It's sure managed to fool a lot of people for a long time.

There have been a lot of things that have fooled a lot of people for a long time. Talking cards? OK, PSA 8 T206 Wagner – and it still does!!!. A card that should be labeled as "A" (Authentic).

If someone were to offer me a choice of a ’52 Topps Mantle (let’s just say a well centered EX card) or an equivalent amount of gold bullion, and told me that whatever I choose I had to hold it for 10 years, I would take the gold bullion in a heartbeat.

99.99% of the rest of the world would do the same. Those silly fools

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

There have been a lot of things that have fooled a lot of people for a long time. Talking cards? OK, PSA 8 T206 Wagner – and it still does!!!. A card that should be labeled as "A" (Authentic).

If someone were to offer me a choice of a ’52 Topps Mantle (let’s just say a well centered EX card) or an equivalent amount of gold bullion, and told me that whatever I choose I had to hold it for 10 years, I would take the gold bullion in a heartbeat.

99.99% of the rest of the world would do the same. Those silly fools

Mantles are at record highs and gold has taken a tremendous beating the past couple of years, so that's probably a good choice.