1952 mantle pwcc psa 8

[sflayank]

does anyone see the stain? including psa
should be 8 (st)
BUY THE CARD NOT THE HOLDER

[vthobby]

Yes, below the EY on the front, pretty bold for a PSA 8 of this caliber. Crazy stuff!

Mike

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by sflayank

does anyone see the stain? including psa
should be 8 (st)
BUY THE CARD NOT THE HOLDER

so the card would be a great psa 6 level...60k range and not 300k? .....I think someone will buy the holder not the card


BY THE WAY..THATS AGAINST THE RULES...don't out the mantle..i was going to bid on it..but now you outed it......

[pokerplyr80]

I don't know what that would be a stain from. It's definitely noticeable but it certainly doesn't seem to be a factor in the bidding so far. With the centering I will not be surprised if it closes over 400k.

[sflayank]

now upto 425k

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by sflayank

now upto 425k

so anyone going to allege shilling? funny pwcc much less likely to have shilling than regular seller....I guess someone wants to win winning their own card back now and lose 25k or whatever on fees. yeah right

also overnight delivery with insurance for $250 I believe? for a card for $450k I would have a brinks truck deliver the card..

[KCRfan1]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

so anyone going to allege shilling? funny pwcc much less likely to have shilling than regular seller....I guess someone wants to win winning their own card back now and lose 25k or whatever on fees. yeah right

also overnight delivery with insurance for $250 I believe? for a card for $450k I would have a brinks truck deliver the card..

I'm certainly not going to allege it. PWCC says, " Auction integrity is their #1 priority ". They said it themselves.....

[pokerplyr80]

I don't think there's any need to shill this one. The price is already higher than the card has been selling for lately. Even if the consignor had considered it, which I certainly hope he didn't, i doubt he would at this point.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I don't think there's any need to shill this one. The price is already higher than the card has been selling for lately. Even if the consignor had considered it, which I certainly hope he didn't, i doubt he would at this point.

right...people act like shilling is so common with these consignors..but it occurs much less than regular sellers


jessie.why not bid more on this card....that way you wont regret being an underbidder on this card 15 years from now and wont have to start another thread about regrets of being an underbidder.....they give you 6 months financing afterall ..thats enough time to mortgage everything or get some loans..so cant say you dont have the money...

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

right...people act like shilling is so common with these consignors..but it occurs much less than regular sellers

Are you seriously saying the average eBay sellers auctions are shilled more than a consigners auction? Do you have anything to base this opinion on?

[Peter_Spaeth]

That stain to me is pretty trivial.

[1952boyntoncollector]

delete

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Are you seriously saying the average eBay sellers auctions are shilled more than a consigners auction? Do you have anything to base this opinion on?

do you have any other information otherwise? I know a private seller can make two accounts and be the 'high bidder' on one of them and cancel the sale between their two accounts..i just don't see probstein in cahoots with 2000 consignors to cancel a sale afterwards........

A consignor risks having to be a high bidder and paying a buyers premium on their own card if they win it at an auction house....if they have two or more accounts and they 'win' their card..there is zero chance.....that's what my opinion is based on...

you think if it was a private account for the 1952 mantle psa 8..with some guy with 50 feeback theres less of a chance he would shill it then pwcc?

go consign a card to pwcc/probstein and win your own consignment with them and tell me what happens...if you are too scared to do it..that proves my point......

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

do you have any other information otherwise? I know a private seller can make two accounts and be the 'high bidder' on one of them and cancel the sale between their two accounts..i just don't see probstein in cahoots with 2000 consignors to cancel a sale afterwards........

A consignor risks having to be a high bidder and paying a buyers premium on their own card if they win it at an auction house....if they have two or more accounts and they 'win' their card..there is zero chance.....that's what my opinion is based on...

you think if it was a private account for the 1952 mantle psa 8..with some guy with 50 feeback theres less of a chance he would shill it then pwcc?

go consign a card to pwcc/probstein and win your own consignment with them and tell me what happens...if you are too scared to do it..that proves my point......

Why do you choose to overlook PWWC has come on this forum and said they have let people shill their own auction in the past. It has also been proven several times that people have shilled their consignments with Probstein with him knowing it and doing nothing about it.

I like your funny weird posts but in all seriousness are they done just to troll?

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

right...people act like shilling is so common with these consignors..but it occurs much less than regular sellers


jessie.why not bid more on this card....that way you wont regret being an underbidder on this card 15 years from now and wont have to start another thread about regrets of being an underbidder.....they give you 6 months financing afterall ..thats enough time to mortgage everything or get some loans..so cant say you dont have the money...

I didn't start that thread I commented on it. And I won't be regretting this one. For me to pay off 500k in 6 months would require a substantial jump in income.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Why do you choose to overlook PWWC has come on this forum and said they have let people shill their own auction in the past. It has also been proven several times that people have shilled their consignments with Probstein with him knowing it and doing nothing about it.

I like your funny weird posts but in all seriousness are they done just to troll?

it also has been proven that private sellers have shilled their cards...I not saying shilling never happened with prob and pwcc..but its less likely to occur and more difficult ..plus the fact that everyone agrees its not happening on a 425k card is nice to know as well

some people like my posts..its not like every one of my posts are hated. ...people that troll like to accuse others of trolling....

[jason.1969]

What a beautiful card! I agree that A) the stain should have been noted, and B) it doesn't detract much. That said, the PWCC write-up focuses on this being at the very top of PSA 8 examples, which I'm not sure is true when considering the stain.

On another note, and this isn't to knock the card at all...looking up close, it's easy to notice the top black border is too long. I wondered if all 52T #311 cards had this same border issue, and it looks like many don't. Perhaps it's speaks to the perfectionists at Topps back then that this card would be redone to fix such a small issue. Or more likely, perhaps it speaks to the general variability in their setup and printing back then that minor things like this might vary unintentionally from run to run.

Purely academic mind wanderings here as this is a card I definitely will never own!

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by jason.1969

What a beautiful card! I agree that A) the stain should have been noted, and B) it doesn't detract much. That said, the PWCC write-up focuses on this being at the very top of PSA 8 examples, which I'm not sure is true when considering the stain.

On another note, and this isn't to knock the card at all...looking up close, it's easy to notice the top black border is too long. I wondered if all 52T #311 cards had this same border issue, and it looks like many don't. Perhaps it's speaks to the perfectionists at Topps back then that this card would be redone to fix such a small issue. Or more likely, perhaps it speaks to the general variability in their setup and printing back then that minor things like this might vary unintentionally from run to run.

Purely academic mind wanderings here as this is a card I definitely will never own!

I never seen an auction house ever say on a 100k+ card that a card isn't in the top echelon for the grade...

[alfredoleal2001]

wish I had some extra change to pick this one up lol

[sflayank]

Btw. Card sold for 62500 including buyers in 2005
Legendary auction...nice profit for the buyer

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by sflayank

Btw. Card sold for 62500 including buyers in 2005
Legendary auction...nice profit for the buyer

if its the same buyer...card could of changed hands between those times......plus who knows..the guy that paid 62500..maybe his wife got mad at him paying 60k for cardboard..then got divorced that costed him more than 300k increase in value........so who knows!

[pclpads]

"costed??" WTF is that?

[pokerplyr80]

Almost 460k now. Does anyone think this one hits 500k? Personally I think it will fall a little short. If I was a betting man I'd put the over/under at about 480k.

[RaidonCollects]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Almost 460k now. Does anyone think this one hits 500k? Personally I think it will fall a little short. If I was a betting man I'd put the over/under at about 480k.

Still got a few days left, I think it could even reach 550k if there's a bidding war. High-grade 52 mantles never come up for sale now, as they've settled into collections. Just my opinion, and I'm no expert on '52s.

~Owen

[Bestdj777]

If I was bidding I would want it to hit $500,000 at this point. It is much more impressive to own a half a million dollar card than a $460,000 card. It is the same reason people will pay to for the .01 higher carat diamond to get to the next round number.

[jason.1969]

I don't know the market for high-end Mantles but I'll go with $554K, one for each HR, counting the postseason.

[swarmee]

Didn't Brent's note say something about removing false bids after a couple of days letting it run? Has that happened yet? Are all these validated/approved bids along with all future bids?

[Jdoggs]

Heritage auctions just sold a 52 topps mantle psa 7 for $227,000!

[pawpawdiv9]

Originally Posted by Jdoggs

Heritage auctions just sold a 52 topps mantle psa 7 for $227,000!

And in a few weeks HA will be selling a PSA 8
Wonder if the non-winners be going for it??
Heritage last recorded PSA 8 sale was for 382,400 (July 30,2015)
Note: MileHigh sold a PSA 8 for 309,613.20 (Nov 16,2015)

Now which one would you want?
HERITAGE


or PWCC (not noteing the stain)

[sbfinley]

A. The odds of this auction ending on a legit bid is less than probable.

B. If somehow all the bids are legit these guys are just burning money. An 8 hammered in Mile High for $313k last month.

C. Bidder 1271 is just toying with the auction.

D. $100 bid increments on something pushing a half million dollars is most one of the most absurd things I've seen.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by sbfinley

A. The odds of this auction ending on a legit bid is less than probable.

B. If somehow all the bids are legit these guys are just burning money. An 8 hammered in Goldin for $313k last month.

C. Bidder 1271 is just toying with the auction.

D. $100 bid increments on something pushing a half million dollars is most one of the most absurd things I've seen.

funny someone can win the card very last second on a 100 dollar bid...


it not funny but if someone is just playing and 'wins' the auction..they can be sued for 500k etc...normally nobody cares on ebay if someone welches on ebay..but that would be bad precedent on a 500k card

[pawpawdiv9]

Based on the 'stain' alone, they could say it was never disclosed and hidden and the decsription states it among the best and 'far superior'
I do not see any disclosure about payments, except for the finanincing part and 10% in 7 days. I am assuming that the buyer can rely on Ebay's policies here and not pay without any harm nor foul, basically using 'not as described'.

This example is easily among the best copies ever graded, and is likely among the best half-dozen PSA 8s in the world. Far superior to what's typically seen for the issue, boasting exceptional centering, evenly toned borders, and wonderfully preserved card stock throughout. Most educated collectors acknowledge that a card's eye appeal can fluctuate considerably within a single grade, and we are excited to label this example as being in the upper echelon of the NM-MT condition range. An all-around beautiful card which even the pickiest card-investor would consider a superior specimen.

[kengoldin]

Originally Posted by sbfinley

A. The odds of this auction ending on a legit bid is less than probable.

B. If somehow all the bids are legit these guys are just burning money. An 8 hammered in Goldin for $313k last month.

C. Bidder 1271 is just toying with the auction.

D. $100 bid increments on something pushing a half million dollars is most one of the most absurd things I've seen.

An 8 did not hammer at Goldin for 313
I think you confused Goldin with mile high

https://www.goldinauctions.com/LotDe...entoryid=16317

it's tough to follow what is going on , on eBay because as I understand it, until tomorrow anyone can place a bid with no credit check. I remember when I tried to bid on action comics number one on eBay they had to approve each bidder in advance of any bid. So as a non regular on eBay looking at an ultra high priced item this is a confusing process to me.

[sbfinley]

You are right Ken. I edited my previous post.

[Dpeck100]

Bidder 1271 may be a legit spender but clearly he has no ethics. I would hate to be going after this card and seeing his bid history.

Eddie Plank

Bidder Action Date of Bid and Retraction
-***o ( 1271Feedback score is 1000 to 4,999) Retracted: US $62,000.00
Bid: Nov-04-15 21:53:00 PST
Retracted: Nov-04-15 21:54:20 PST
-***o ( 1271Feedback score is 1000 to 4,999) Retracted: US $60,349.00
Bid: Nov-04-15 21:54:39 PST
Retracted: Nov-05-15 12:32:57 PST


Ernie Banks

Bidder Action Date of Bid and Retraction
-***o ( 1271Feedback score is 1000 to 4,999) Retracted: US $5,950.00
Bid: Nov-02-15 22:02:37 PST
Retracted: Nov-05-15 12:33:35 PST

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by sbfinley

A. The odds of this auction ending on a legit bid is less than probable.

B. If somehow all the bids are legit these guys are just burning money. An 8 hammered in Mile High for $313k last month.

C. Bidder 1271 is just toying with the auction.

D. $100 bid increments on something pushing a half million dollars is most one of the most absurd things I've seen.

funny how you go by a 313k auction LAST month..if this card goes for 450k...that will be the new norm...in fact weren't there a few 8s before LAST month that went for 400k

all a dealer needs is one sale at a top price to quote it no matter what....there could be 5 auctions this year...300k, 400k 300k, 330, 300,...and ill I would hear about on why they want $410k for the cards is because a 'a card sold at aucton this year for 400k' the fact is that one card went for 313k in LAST month auction. Cards before than went for FAR MORE and a PRESENT auction goes for 450k..i would not be so quick to say the guy is 'burning' money because of ONE auction...

[jchcollins]

The '52 Topps Mantle is the Wagner / grail card of the Baby Boomer set. It's fascinating to me how grading and the craze of the modern hobby have continued to push the price of this card up in recent years. I started collecting as a kid in 1986 and used to persuade my mother to buy vintage cards for me at the local shops back when $20 or so for a nice '66 Koufax (still one of my favorites) was considered BIG MONEY. I guess I should have been more persuasive back then when a mid-grade '52 #311 went for "only" a couple of thousand dollars. Hey ma, do you know what this card will be worth in 2015?? The sad thing is, I was doing that kind of persuading back then - but alas, for complete sets of '89 UD and 1990 Donruss and that kind of thing. Doh!

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by kengoldin

An 8 did not hammer at Goldin for 313
I think you confused Goldin with mile high

https://www.goldinauctions.com/LotDe...entoryid=16317

Just my opinion, but the color on that Mile High Mantle (the slightly greener blue...) is way better than the PWCC 8. Even with the print line through his cap. And the black box surrounding the stars around the name plate is unbroken on the Mile High one, vs. the "crumbly look" above the stars on the one in the current auction. I know both are legit variations, but just saying. I would scrutinize the minutiae too if I were paying that much for a card.

I guess it's a good thing I collect mostly cards in VG condition. Er,...nevermind I wouldn't be able to afford a '52 #311 even in much worse condition than that.