Question about T206 "Old Mill" backs...

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

I see from this site that there are two different backs for the Old Mill cards from Factory 25, 2nd Dist of VA:

http://www.t206museum.com/page/bk_reglt3.html

Here is my question:

The "black" Old Mill back card on that page is for MAJOR league players...

while the "brown" Old Mill back card on that page is for "Southern League" players.



QUESTION: Is the "BLACK" Old Mill back shown on that website the ONLY "Old Mill" back that ever appeared on the reverse of the T206 Major League player cards??

Thanks

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

In other words...

is the BROWN back Old Mill ONLY limited to Southern League cards?

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Posted By: BRIANKW

Hi Hal,

The answer is yes, the Brown Old Mill backs are only on Slers.

Thanks Brian

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

Sweet!

That will save me a bunch of money, since I don't collect minor league cards!

Finally I catch a break in life.

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Posted By: RayPiskadlo

Where did they come from? and rarer than Ty Cobb backs???

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Posted By: Joe P.

As for their comparative scarcity to the Ty Cobb backs I don't know?
As I understand it, there are only 11 known Ty backs.

Joe

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Posted By: Ray

I've been colecting t206 cards for about 2 years, never saw or heard of one til now.

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Posted By: BRIANKW

Hi All,
I will post a scan of one tomorrow. The Old Mill Overprints are very rare, and I believe there are less than 10 cards known. I will try to post more info later. Be well Brian

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Posted By: fkw

I always considered the single overprint and double overprint as printing flaws, not a true back variation (done on purpose), the overprints ive seen (maybe 3 diff) are screwups as they dont line up with the original factor #. The single overprint at top is always upside down, and the double was done when they tried to correct the problem and flipped the sheet after first screwup printing but it still didnt line up so they didnt print anymore thus their rareity. I guess they gave up after 1-2 sheets were tried. Has anyone seen a single overprint that actually Overprinted the old factory # as intended??? Frank

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Posted By: Scott Elkins

I have only seen and/or heard of three Old Mill Overprints (just as Frank). I also believe they are printing errors, but extremely rare - 3-4 times as rare as a Ty Cobb back! This is the only back from T206, T205 and T207 that I never owned - I never even saw one for sale to get outbid on! I would guess that if one becomes available, it should fetch around $10k at least in any condition - maybe more, since T206's are so popular. T207 Red Cross backs are in the same rarity league as these overprints. However, we all know that T207's are not as widely collected as T206's and the Red Cross backs usually bring around the $10k range with the juice.

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Posted By: JimB

Not to take anything away from the Old Mill overprint (I wish I owned one!), whether it is an overprint or variation, but I think comparing relative scarcity of a brand back like Ty Cobb with an error back or variation is a bit like comparing apples and oranges unless we are just talking about the numbers in existence. Ty Cobb is by far the rarest brand back, much rarer than Drum (the second rarest). To my knowledge there are 12 examples of the Ty Cobb brand back, though I heard a rumor that a thirteenth surfaced last year. I may be in a minority, but I think breaking down brand backs by series, etc. and then comparing them with brand backs is a bit off the mark. For example, claiming Broadleaf 460s are rarer than Drums may be the case, but to me the question is Broadleaf vs. Drum, not Broadleaf 350 or 460 or whatever vs Drum. I think those kinds of comparisons are misleading. Just me two cents.\ Any thoughts from other T206 back collectors?
JimB

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

I agree with JimB.

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Posted By: john/z28jd

I disagree slightly with JimB and i know alot of other people do because they dont consider Ty Cobb backs to be part of the T206 set. Its been discussed here many time so i wont get totally into,you can find that thru search.

I agree with him saying however that a misprint or variation of a back shouldnt be compared to one specific brand of back.I have 2 "error backs" which ive never seen besides mine but that doesnt make them the rarest card in the set.If people ask me which T206 back is the toughest i say broadleaf 460,if they ask which brand i say Drum

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Posted By: Scott Elkins

when I collected rare backs. However, sometimes you DO have to compare these with other backs (comparing apples to oranges) to get a good idea of the rarity! It seems the Overprint Old Mills were going to be regular issued overprints just like a Factory 649 Sweet Caporal 150 Series back - they are just multiple times rarer. This Old Mill overprint error isn't like some of the "error" backs you see on eBay that are simply O/C or something - it probably was meant to be an issue itself (again, like a Factory 649 overprint). Also, there have been 13 known Ty Cobb backs for some time - if there is a new one verified, that would make it 14. However, there are some that are in old timer's collections that aren't even in that number - I know of a couple (and I am sure people like Art Martineau know of more than that!).

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Posted By: Jerry

I just wanted to confirm the existence of the Old Mill back with a factory Overprint bar. I currently own a PSA 4 example of this card. It has a black overprint bar. I have heard that there may be an additional variation of this back type with a red bar and/or 2 bars. The only instance I have ever seen of this specific back type in a public auction was on ebay about 3 or 4 years ago. The card didn't sell because it failed to meet the reserve.

My personal opinion is that this back type is 2 to 3 times more rare than a Ty Cobb back. I realize the overprint back is just a variation of an Old Mill back and not a distinct back type, but there is no denying the rarity of this variation.