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#1
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Yes, how dare I make fun of the biggest scammers and card alterers in the hobby making a deal with a grading company. This is outrageous, I tell you. Or, just maybe, maybe there's something wrong with the people who think it's the people who don't like fraud that are the annoying ones... |
#2
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There’s a saying that people judge you by the company you keep. Not where I would be going, if I was CSG.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#3
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I agree with you Peter, but the hobby couldn't care less about this stuff. I don't see any downside for CSG - 100 people in the hobby will think the partnership is BS, and 10K more will place their first order with CSG.
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#4
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I know. Just how it is.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#5
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You can make all the infantile and idiotic comments you want, and personally insult me all you like. I never said or implied that people that don't like fraud are annoying, so don't go trying to put words in my mouth. But it is annoying whenever someone even mentions PWCC and all bashing starts anew. I've heard it 1,000 times already, and get it, you all hate PWCC and think they suck. Great, I'm with you, but can we talk about something else already? I'm not necessarily a big fan of CSG partnering with PWCC either, but given the circumstances and current situation in the hobby and with TPGs, I can on some levels understand where CSG may be coming from in deciding to do business through PWCC. And I was hoping to possibly have at least a semi-intelligent and adult conversation about that aspect of it without the conversation digressing into a PWCC bashing session, and the automatic inclusion of CSG in the bashing simply because they agreed to accept grading submissions from consignors through PWCC. That is exactly why I was purposely proactive in commenting like I did about sarcastic and joking comments being made about the partnership, I was hoping to cut off the stupid statements from being directed at CSG since they haven't really done anything wrong yet that I'm aware of. I should have known better though, there always seems to be someone that will troll what could otherwise an intelligent discussion here on the forum. I was interested to see what others thought of the reasoning I put forth as to maybe why CSG decided to go forward with this partnership anyway, and the different things that may or may not have influenced them. But noooooo! It unfortunately started turning into a PWCC is bad and stupid, so therefore if CSG decides to work with them CSG is now automatically bad and stupid too thread. So, sorry you didn't fully understand and comprehend what I was trying to say, and somehow think I'm supporting PWCC and fraud. But that ignorance is on you. I'm not, and never have or will support fraud, and those who perpetrate it. But maybe, just maybe, if CSG starts looking at these submissions coming through PWCC, they'll pay more attention to what they're looking at and catch more of these altered and doctored card attempts than their predecessors ever did. Now wouldn't that be nice? Despite all the hatred and anger directed at PWCC, they're still around, and it doesn't appear they'll be disappearing or going anywhere anytime soon. So suck it up and deal with it! You can bitch and moan about PWCC all you want, but why not at least give CSG a chance before bashing them in as well? This is exactly the kind of crap I feared would be coming out in this thread instead of a more positive conversation as to why CSG decided to do this. And thus, the close-minded minds appear to rule the day again. |
#6
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Having read this thread - I found myself stumbling onto the PWCC site for the 1st time in a couple years.
Fixed Price listings are absolutely crazy high. Kinda made me wanna box up about 200 pounds of stuff and have them sell for me.
__________________
Lonnie Nagel T206 : 172/520 : 32.8% |
#7
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I think the fixed prices are set by the individual sellers, not pwcc. Not positive though.
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#8
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#9
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And as for being tedious in my rantings, you obviously find them to be that because you're from the close-minded and "I'm right and you're wrong!" school of thought. I really didn't want to hear the bitching and moaning about PWCC, so your immediate response is to come right back and make your sarcastic comment and shove it my face as a more or less "I'm going to do want I want, and you can't tell me what to do!" kind of statement. I wasn't trying to tell you what to do, just hoping the more adult side and thinking of people would prevail. My bad for continuing to hold out hope that might actually happen one day. |
#10
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#11
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#12
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You joined in 2021. Are you familiar with the whole history of PWCC that we've talked about here for the last 15 years?
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#13
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A light joke about PWCC does not mean that everyone or anyone else is clean. I'd love to see where I have picked and chosen. |
#14
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I thought I was done with CSG 6 months ago. But their recent changes to their flip and grading scale show humility and that they are listening to the customers. Their continued partnerships with major players in the hobby show initiative and drive. Their bandwidth to turn around the volume of cards that are heading their way via eBay on top of the submissions they receive is pretty impressive given how new they are. Comparing their ability to hire and train graders to that of their competitors leaves me scratching my head as they seem to be nearly an order of magnitude more efficient in this process. I'm becoming increasingly more convinced that CSG is going to jump into the #2 spot in the not too distant future. The vintage market will be more hesitant to adopt them, at least at first, but they will definitely become major players with modern cards very soon IMO.
I have about 150 cards that I previously had no intention of grading that I'll be sending off to CSG tomorrow. I really, really love their new slabs. Well-centered PSA 9s are about to get the middle finger from CSG, just watch. Soon, people will be cracking PSA 9s and sending them off to CSG, hoping for that 9.5 (or better). Last edited by Snowman; 05-01-2022 at 02:48 AM. |
#15
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But, of course a topic like the CSG/PWCC partnership is going to generate a lot of negative comments toward both parties. "But CSG hasn't done anything wrong - yet!" isn't a defense here. The "anything wrong" is partnering with PWCC in the first place. If you partner up with an enterprise that is a known criminal enterprise, you're no longer an innocent party who has done nothing wrong. People pointing this out - even sarcastically- are not misdirecting the conversation. They're taking it to a logical destination. How can you possibly discuss a PWCC/CSG partnership in any meaningful way and NOT bring up PWCC's criminal activities? You can't, IMHO. |
#16
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I just bought 71 topps reggie jackson🤭
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#17
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And by extension then, the bank they use is invariably aiding in their criminal activity, and should be considered an accessory to their crimes. And that goes for the landlord who leases them space, the cleaning company they may hire to vacuum and dust their offices, the store that sells them office supplies, heck, even the US postal service is guilty for continuing to deliver them mail that aids and abets their criminal operations. And of course, every single employee on PWCC's payroll is also equally as guilty of their crimes and should also end up behind bars. And you can go on and on to name every single person and enterprise that does anything that helps to keep PWCC's business operating, as an accessory to their crimes then. At least that is according to the logic being put forth for people on Net54 apparently. "If you partner up with an enterprise that is a known criminal enterprise, you're no longer an innocent party who has done nothing wrong." So based on what you seem to be implying for yourself and many other people here on Net54 with those words, is that when the FBI finally completes their investigation of PWCC and goes forward with criminal prosecution, we should expect an enormous number of people to end up going to jail, including all the people working with other businesses that supported and helped to maintain PWCC's criminal operations by offering and providing them their goods and services. ""But (enter name of any person or business doing anything with or for PWCC) hasn't done anything wrong - yet!" isn't a defense here. The "anything wrong" is partnering with PWCC in the first place.". Those are your words, incorporating a quote from me, not mine. Maybe you can explain that to the single Mom with two little kids at home as she gets hauled off to jail because she needed the job and money from being a receptionist and just answering the phones at PWCC. Of course, I'm making up the single Mom being their receptionist part (even though it actually could be the case) to make a point and add a little dramatic effect. As you alluded to, she has no defense and should be considered guilty, just like CSG, right? So, I guess such a hypothetical figure as this single Mom could/would/should also be an eligible target for sarcastic comments from Net54's peanut gallery then as well. And therefore, I would be remiss and completely in the wrong for calling out any of those parties hurling sarcastic comments at the obviously guilty single Mom as being juvenile a-holes for doing so! Chris, you're a good guy, and we usually see eye to eye on things. I trust you can see my logic and reasoning behind what I'm saying. And though you put forth the most obvious reasons for CSG doing this (money and market share), I was hoping to get into a little deeper discussion of specific points that may have swayed CSG to make the decision to go forward. Along with the possibility that there may actually be some good coming from this arrangement, such as a flat rate grading fee finally being seen in the hobby. Forgive my foolishness for actually thinking that such an adult conversation could take place on this forum in regards to such a testy and controversial subject, without it also releasing the juvenile trolls that just love to bark and bite at one's ankles. |
#18
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There is a difference between a cleaning company, who is likely unaware of the criminal activities of PWCC and a grading company who is absolutely aware of them. Quote:
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Your judgment is suspect. Also, thanks Quote:
CSG could have implemented the flat rate grading outside of a relationship with PWCC. This certainly seems like a positive step for the grading industry. While I certainly understand why companies haven't done it before (besides the obvious increased revenue, there are greater risks and possible costs associated with grading more expensive cards), the inherent conflict of interest has always bothered me. But correcting that conflict didn't necessitate getting into business with PWCC. And getting into business with PWCC kinda offsets any positive things that CSG might be doing. |
#19
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You guys keep talking about PWCC as if any of these allegations have been proven. You might be convinced, but the prosecutors asks FBI clearly were not. CSG probably couldn't care less about hobby conspiracy theories. PWCC has been charged with zero crimes. PWCC is a big player in this market. That's probably all CSG cares about. I wouldn't even be surprised if they knew absolutely nothing about all the PWCC conspiracy theories in fact. That stuff is pretty deep in the shadows of this hobby. |
#20
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It’s one of the most talked about things in the hobby. It’s not in the shadows…
A person who is guilty of wrongdoing and a person who has been convicted of a crime are different things. That PWCC has not been charged or convicted does not mean the mountains of evidence are untrue. |
#21
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I was unaware of the "PWCC has been banned from PSA" conspiracy theory. Regardless, it's false. I know for a fact that PWCC is still submitting cards to PSA. They offered to send in one of the cards in my vault for a grade review 3 days ago (prompted by me, not them).
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