Football Hall of Fame Rookie Cards Collection

[bcbgcbrcb]

I was thinking of starting to work on a Football Hall of Fame Rookie Card collection and came across this old auction result from Legendary:

http://legendaryauctions.com/LotDeta...entoryid=54650

Is it possible these days to put together such a collection and only spend the amount listed in the auction or was this a "steal deal" for the lucky winner?

[S_GERACE]

Phil,
I'd say that you're looking at more like $5,000 to $7,000+ to do a collection like that today. The 1935 NC Nagurski alone would probably run you $1,500 in a 1.5. The rest of the key rookies, with the exception of the Unitas & Sayers, are poor to fair but even in those kind of grades they would probably cost $50 to $100 each.

You're also trying to compare a sale that occurred in 2005 to today's prices. To assume that these cards have not appreciated at all in ten years is unreasonable. It may be possible if you found another lot like that one that you could purchase it at the figure(s) I quoted above but to go out and obtain these cards one at a time would be cost prohibitive. Even at $3 a card for shipping, about 20% of your total budget would be consumed just to have the cards shipped to you.

Hope you found this helpful and it doesn't deter you from collecting football cards. Vintage football represents some of the best bargains in the sports collecting field!

Regards,
Scott

[clamendo]

The HOF rookie list is a fabricated list of many non-period cards of the players. Who choose who's on the list? It wouldn't take long to have the people on this board come up with the "real" list, but of course no one would be able to get them all, but it's a lot more fun chasing those than 1988 Swell Arnie Herber's, 1990 Pro Set Al Davis, or 1994 Police Bud Grant, 1974 Fleer Paddy Driscoll. I guess I'll have to settle for low grade examples of 1932 Walker Cleaner Packers Arnie Herbert, 1963 Coke Cap of Al Davis, 1954 Blue Ribbon Bud Grant, or 1928 Star Player Paddy Driscoll.


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[brafcauknid]

I started working on a HOF rookie collection about 6 months ago, I'm up to about 1/3 of the cards needed thus far. I'm not going all sgc,psa or anything...mine are a mix, I have sgc, psa, and a lot of Raw as well. I am trying to stay a little bit higher grade than that auction listed for most of the cards anyways. I really do wish I had kept track of what I've spent on them so far but I haven't at all really, though I have been deal hunting, not just grabbing first thing I find.

This so far has been the most enjoyable and addicting thing Ive attempted in my 20 years of card collecting. Let me know how your collection comes together.

[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by clamendo

The HOF rookie list is a fabricated list of many non-period cards of the players. Who choose who's on the list? It wouldn't take long to have the people on this board come up with the "real" list, but of course no one would be able to get them all, but it's a lot more fun chasing those than 1988 Swell Arnie Herber's, 1990 Pro Set Al Davis, or 1994 Police Bud Grant, 1974 Fleer Paddy Driscoll. I guess I'll have to settle for low grade examples of 1932 Walker Cleaner Packers Arnie Herbert, 1963 Coke Cap of Al Davis, 1954 Blue Ribbon Bud Grant, or 1928 Star Player Paddy Driscoll.
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I completely agree, Carl. To me its silly to call a 1988 Arnie Herber his rookie card. I believe the rookie card phenomenon is a manifestation of two things:

1) It seems to have always been the unwritten rule that a rookie card has to come from a "mainstream" set that was distributed nationally if at all possible. I'm not sure if this rule was pushed by Topps and other card manufacturers or came from dealers wanting to make sure they had plenty of rookie cards to sell.

2) The grading companies would never advocate that rookie cards be designated in scarce sets like Star Player Candy as then hardly anyone would work on a HOF registry set as completing it would be pretty much hopeless and hopeless equals less grading fees for them!

Either way it is clear that the driver behind rookie card designations is $$$$, not what is truly the players first card.

I'm very content to focus on trying to get "pre-rookie" cards of HOFers from the scarce sets you mention even if these cards aren't designated as rookie cards. I agree its a lot more fun chasing those but don't begrudge anyone who wants to try and complete an official rookie card set ... that's still a tall task!

jeff

[Dan Carson]

Originally Posted by jefferyepayne

I completely agree, Carl. To me its silly to call a 1988 Arnie Herber his rookie card. I believe the rookie card phenomenon is a manifestation of two things:

1) It seems to have always been the unwritten rule that a rookie card has to come from a "mainstream" set that was distributed nationally if at all possible. I'm not sure if this rule was pushed by Topps and other card manufacturers or came from dealers wanting to make sure they had plenty of rookie cards to sell.

2) The grading companies would never advocate that rookie cards be designated in scarce sets like Star Player Candy as then hardly anyone would work on a HOF registry set as completing it would be pretty much hopeless and hopeless equals less grading fees for them!

Either way it is clear that the driver behind rookie card designations is $$$$, not what is truly the players first card.

I'm very content to focus on trying to get "pre-rookie" cards of HOFers from the scarce sets you mention even if these cards aren't designated as rookie cards. I agree its a lot more fun chasing those but don't begrudge anyone who wants to try and complete an official rookie card set ... that's still a tall task!

jeff

+1

[S_GERACE]

Haven't posted in awhile. Here are some of my iconic RC's.

[Jdoggs]

Nice centering on Namath psa 6.5 rookie.

[bcbgcbrcb]

Imagine how disappointed this consignor must have been after they spent well over $5K (even back then in 2004-05 and that doesn't include all of the SGC grading costs for raw and cross-over card purchases), as mentioned previously, and only netted around $3,100 after the buyer's premium was deducted from the final auction price.

OBTW, that consignor was me. The astonishing thing was that it only took me a little over 6 months to do the entire collection.

[S_GERACE]

Phil,
I'm sorry that you lost some money while collecting but hopefully you were entertained and learned something from the experience. I don't want to offer any platitudes or try to rub salt in your wound but your story validates both Carl's and Jeff's points posted above.

Again, sorry things turned out negatively for you. I've taken beatings myself (I think that everyone has at one time or another).

Scott

[bcbgcbrcb]

Thanks, Scott. Actually, it was a lot of fun, that's why I am considering doing it again but the financial aspect is what's keeping me from moving forward at this time. If I did go ahead with it, I would try to do a little bit nicer set condition-wise this time around, at least on the modestly priced rookies. Also, wouldn't bother with the SGC grading, that and the shipping costs were my two biggest money wasters. Also, admission cost and gas to local card shows played a much smaller role as well.

This time around, I have a 2 year old son so am thinking this might be a good endeavor to start and he and I can work on together in the future. Finance-wise, a baseball rookie collection would be impossible for me to undertake at this time, as would a hockey rookies collection with all of the early tobacco and '30's gum cards. What makes a basketball rookies collection less appealing than football to me is the large gaps in years of sets produced. That leaves football as my most likely endeavor if I decide to do a rookies set at all......

[jefferyepayne]

Sorry to hear that, Phil. Somebody got a pretty good deal.

If you decide to take up the task again, definitely start a thread and keep us posted on your progress!

jeff

[TanksAndSpartans]

I really like this set:http://www.psacard.com/PSASetRegistr...on.aspx?c=3658 for a much easier challenge that still includes a bunch of great players. And only the Hutson and Hein are.... "contrived" rookies.

So who would be the tough HOFers in a real earliest item HOF set? And the set wouldn't be all cards, right? Probably about 20 matchbooks? And how many photos? Would anyone be impossible? George Trafton?

[bcbgcbrcb]

Dave:

Is the 1926 Sports Champions of America Grange card legitimate? I have never heard of it before.

Thanks

[TanksAndSpartans]

Dave, I know we're bombarding you - but can you also post the list of earliest item for every HOFer - I recall you had that at one time. Thanks.

Phil, Grange is in the Spaulding set, but as others can explain better, I don't think his earliest item can be confirmed, but rather it is narrowed down to 1 of 3 possible..... Here is a link to the Spaulding set which includes HOFers Ernie Nevers and Benny Friedman: http://www.psacard.com/psasetregistr...on.aspx?c=2800

Here is a link to a discussion on the earliest Grange card: http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=209241

[bcbgcbrcb]

Thanks for the info, John. So a Spalding card of Grange does exist but it was not part of the issued set but instead, a "promo" card of sorts. That probably explains why I was unaware of it. Even though it might only miss out on being Grange's earliest card by a few months, I think the "promo" card status prevents it from being classified as a rookie card anyway.

I have never seen a W590 Grange, does anyone have a scan that they can share? On the baseball side, the W590 Gehrig is always a popular debate as to whether that card should be considered as a rookie in addition to the '25 Exhibit of Gehrig. Range of years for this set goes all the way out to 1931 so very tough to say...........

I don't really consider any of the Shotwell cards to be classified as rookie cards either as they were part of their own set and only included Grange.

For me, the 1928 Anonymous card of Grange might "fit the bill" as a Grange rookie card better than any others, unless the W590 can somehow be pinpointed to 1925-27.

[jefferyepayne]

Don't forget about the 1926 Shotwell sets. They would be earlier than the 1928 Star Player Candy Grange.

Here you go:

Spalding


W590


Shotwell


jeff

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by jefferyepayne

Don't forget about the 1926 Shotwell sets. They would be earlier than the 1928 Star Player Candy Grange.

Here you go:

Spalding


W590


Shotwell


jeff

1926 Amatller



These are also approx 1926 cards:

[clamendo]

I believe that this 1908 RPPC of the Carlisle Indian Football team which includes Thorpe his Pre-rookie. I've been looking for such a piece for a long time and was able to snag it in the Hunt Super Bowl auction. I believe someday I will sell it to one of the Indian Casinos in the Northeast and they will proudly display it. I know Thorpe's image is small, but it's the real deal.



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[Publius]

Originally Posted by clamendo

I believe that this 1908 RPPC of the Carlisle Indian Football team which includes Thorpe his Pre-rookie. I've been looking for such a piece for a long time and was able to snag it in the Hunt Super Bowl auction. I believe someday I will sell it to one of the Indian Casinos in the Northeast and they will proudly display it. I know Thorpe's image is small, but it's the real deal.
]

Carl, so I guess Ill call this 1907 RPPC of the Carlisle team I have with Thopre in in his Pre, Pre-rooke

[clamendo]

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[clamendo]

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[clamendo]

Something I never noticed.
I believe Pop Warner who coached the team is also depicted? That would make it his Rookie too. WoW


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[clamendo]

Yes! Very Nice, but no Pop Warner. I like them both because he is at least in a football uniform. I think 1907 was his first year. I think these are "cornerstone" pieces to any collection. They just didn't make one,... I wonder how many, if anymore survived!!


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[jefferyepayne]

Awesome Thorpe RPPC's Carl and Joe! Those are really cool items.

Pre-pre-per-pre rookie

jeff

[argpdt]

I started collecting NFL HOF rookie cards about 10 years ago, with the goal to get the "official" rookie or the oldest card I could afford from the player's playing days. Some official rookies are from 1974/75 Fleer HOF, 1955 Topps All American, etc. I currently have 275 of the 293 HOF rookie cards available, that meet my standard for rookie. I would love to acquire the 1933 Diamond Matchbooks of Badgro, Battles, Edwards, Flaherty, Hein, Herber, Hewitt, Hinkle, Hubbard, and Nagurski.
The only inductee that I don't have anything of is George Wilson (Rookie: 1960 Bills Team Issue).

[bcbgcbrcb]

Andrew:

There's a George Wilson in the Pro Football Hall of Fame?

[S_GERACE]

I don't want to put words in his mouth, but I think he means Ralph Wilson. Just a guess.

Good luck on your quest Andrew!

[clamendo]

Just for your reference ...here is the "tough" Ralph Wilson" 1960 Buffalo Bills Team Issue Photo and the envelope as an added bonus. Not many have survived.




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