1954 Topps Canadian Jackie Robinson???

[bobbyw8469]

I am confused by this auction. Why is Goodwin & Co calling this card a Canadian issue, when it says no such thing on the label, and the back of the card clearly says "Printed in the USA"? I'm hoping some of the 1954 experts can chime in....

http://www.goodwinandco.com/1954_Top...-LOT31579.aspx

[bbcard1]

I don't know anything in particular about that issue, but I suspect the stock is the tip off. Also the catalogue writer is trying way too hard.

[Laxcat]

Think '52 gray backs. But, I believe, much more difficult.

[ALR-bishop]

The SCD Standard Catalog has a separate listing for the first series gray backs in 54 and the mid series gray backs in 52. It refers to them as Canadians based on speculation they may have been printed and distributed in Canada. That theory is contested by many. Ted Z or David H, or others may chime in.

Very tough to complete a super master set with those backs

[glynparson]

A Canadian back since the early 1990 s at least. Many contest that but regardless they are extremely difficult to find and even more so in such spectacular condition. So even if erroneous Canadian is how many have referred to this issue for at least 20-25 years.

[CharleyBrown]

The card is incredibly difficult to obtain, and usually sells for quite a bit more than the card in its typical stock. I've owned 3 of them - really regretted selling my first 2 (PSA 3 and PSA 5 I believe) - was really glad to have picked up the PSA 2 in the last Heritage auction. The pop report tells all - I think there are 6-8 total Gray Backs vs. 2600 or so regular backs.

Here's a comparison between the two:

[MW1]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

The SCD Standard Catalog has a separate listing for the first series gray backs in 54 and the mid series gray backs in 52. It refers to them as Canadians based on speculation they may have been printed and distributed in Canada. That theory is contested by many. Ted Z or David H, or others may chime in.

Very tough to complete a super master set with those backs

The Canadian origin is the correct one. The 1952 Topps Canadians are actually much tougher in top grade than the 1954 Topps Canadians, with the exception of just a few players.

[Stampsfan]

CharleyBrown, thanks for the scans. The back color of the Robinson card in the Goodwin auction almost seems to be between the colors of your scans. The grey in yours in quite dark. IYO, have you seen differing shades of grey, or might it be the scans?

Thanks...
Bob

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by MW1

The Canadian origin is the correct one. The 1952 Topps Canadians are actually much tougher in top grade than the 1954 Topps Canadians, with the exception of just a few players.

Micheal-Do you have a source for this information? Generally, most hobby origin stories have an element of truth but I always like to go back to the source if possible and would love to see that here.

[ALR-bishop]

From Bob Lemke's Blog ( I have no personal knowledge and enjoy the mystery). I also realize we may be in wrong forum, but not my thread

http://boblemke.blogspot.com/2011/05...-canadian.html

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Stampsfan

CharleyBrown, thanks for the scans. The back color of the Robinson card in the Goodwin auction almost seems to be between the colors of your scans. The grey in yours in quite dark. IYO, have you seen differing shades of grey, or might it be the scans?

Thanks...
Bob

there are 50 shades of gray

[MW1]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I am confused by this auction. Why is Goodwin & Co calling this card a Canadian issue, when it says no such thing on the label, and the back of the card clearly says "Printed in the USA"? I'm hoping some of the 1954 experts can chime in....

http://www.goodwinandco.com/1954_Top...-LOT31579.aspx

Bobby,

As mentioned elsewhere, the only thing that distinguishes one issue from the other is the color of the reverse side, not the text. What might be problematic, however, is that the card in the auction does not appear to be a gray back. Either that or it's a really bad scan.

If the label is indeed correct, that's one heck of a rare card.

Update: I have been told that the Jackie Robinson comes from a reputable source and is indeed a 1954 Canadian Topps gray back. I'm not sure why I was contacted by an intermediary, however. The owner of the card should just supply an alternate scan/image to the auction house.

[MW1]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

From Bob Lemke's Blog ( I have no personal knowledge and enjoy the mystery). I also realize we may be in wrong forum, but not my thread

http://boblemke.blogspot.com/2011/05...-canadian.html

We've been buying throughout Canada and have attended all of the major conventions for a little longer than John Rumierz (the first source cited by Lemke). Our experience has been somewhat different. Although we haven't found large quantities, we have located some 1952 Topps third series gray backs is in Canada, with most of them turning up in and around the Toronto area. I should also add, however, that it is quite likely that these cards were distributed in various places in the United States as well.

[Laxcat]

Originally Posted by MW1

Interesting information but certainly misleading. We've been buying throughout Canada and have attended all of the major conventions for a little longer than John Rumierz (the first source cited by Lemke). Our experience has been the exact opposite. The ONLY place to find "quantities" of 1952 Topps third series gray backs is in Canada, with most of them turning up in and around the Toronto area. The few that we have found in the United States were most likely from Canadian sources.

Rumierz writes that he has seen "thousands of '52s with 100s of High Numbers and many Mantles" in Canada but no gray backs. It could be that he just didn't have access to enough collections and material during his travels. For comparison, we have encountered hundreds of thousands of 1952s, thousands of high numbers, and perhaps a hundred Mantles. Our total yield has been 50 or so gray backs so these cards are indeed very scarce. Chances are Rumierz just didn't see enough 1952s to find any or was searching in the wrong cities.

Not sure that those '52 are THAT rare. I pulled 30 or so out of the stock my father had in his store in Austin TX. Compared to 0 '54's. The store opened and closed pre eBay. That is why I'm not confident at all in the "Canadian" label.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by MW1

Bobby,

As mentioned elsewhere, the only thing that distinguishes one issue from the other is the color of the reverse side, not the text. What might be problematic, however, is that the card in the auction does not appear to be a gray back. Either that or it's a really bad scan.

If the label is indeed correct, that's one heck of a rare card.

Here is an archived photo of one, it definitely looks different from Bill's which is next to it. Then again, Bill's scans are not always the best, it would be surprising if PSA mislabeled this.

[MW1]

Originally Posted by Laxcat

Not sure that those '52 are THAT rare. I pulled 30 or so out of the stock my father had in his store in Austin TX. Compared to 0 '54's. The store opened and closed pre eBay. That is why I'm not confident at all in the "Canadian" label.

Which ones did you have? Condition?

[CharleyBrown]

I believe that the Goodwin Jackie is a gray back... card stock looks about right. The gray color does vary from card to card from what I've seen. I'm pretty certain the issue here is with the scan.

[Laxcat]

Originally Posted by MW1

Which ones did you have? Condition?

Fellow boarder members bought the lions share of them. They were all in 3-5 range. Sold the rest on eBay raw. None of the super rates. Multiples of Moss Judson Howell. Had a Ramazotti and Waitkus that had no qualifiers.

[glynparson]

Is a gray back. I just talked to the consignor who is among the most knowledgable baseball card experts on the planet and he assured me it is a gray back. The brightness of bills scans make the card look different. Also the 1954 grays are definetly from Canada as the packs say printed in Canada even if the cards do not.

http://www.legendaryauctions.com/mob...entoryid=85196

[CharleyBrown]

Originally Posted by glynparson

Is a gray back. I just talked to the consignor who is among the most knowledgable baseball card experts on the planet and he assured me it is a gray back. The brightness of bills scans make the card look different. Also the 1954 grays are definetly from Canada as the packs say printed in Canada even if the cards do not.

http://www.legendaryauctions.com/mob...entoryid=85196

Nice find!

Looking back at my past sales, the '54 Gray Backs sold for many multiples more than the normal '54s - I would not be surprised if this one does so as well.

[CharleyBrown]

Here's a look at another '54 Gray Back where the back isn't as gray as my previous..

[glynparson]

http://www.net54baseball.com/attachm...1&d=1451785969

[Exhibitman]

Interesting how the 52 and 54 are gray stock but many of the OPC cards are lighter whiter stock than the comparable Topps cards.

[glynparson]

First year of OPC for baseball

[toppcat]

Finds around Toronto of Baseball cards from the 50's make sense as OPC was located nearby in London, Ontario. What follows is somewhat theoretical but I've seen anecdotal evidence that Topps shipped materials, including uncut sheets from various sets, up through the Great Lakes to London from Detroit for a time before OPC was really set up to deal with the flow of Topps product into Canada. There is a story out there about a truck accident involving 1954 hockey sheets in Detroit IIRC.

More theory-Given the lack of gum and wax staining, some of the grays in '52 may have originated in ten cent cello packs in the US. Some of those cellos, branded as Trading Card Guild by Topps, had mixed series and printings within them.

Not theory but fact-Topps also sold off excess and older inventory through Sam Rosen (Woody Gelman's stepfather) and that company eventually became Card Collectors Company. Rosen originally coordinated aftermarket sales from midtown Manhattan at 110 W 34th St, a building that still stands and is a block away from the Empire State Building. Topps would direct you there if you inquired about buying cards from older sets. I could see grays being dispersed by Rosen if they were dumped on him by Topps.

I really want to do more research into the Topps-Canadian Pipeline. Topps had trademarks in Canada as early as 1944, so they would have been right on it after the war ended.