SGC vs PSA in postwar

[goudey1933]

Coming from prewar now into postwar cards I was wondering how the 2 compare?I know this has been beaten to death on the other forum...probably here too...sorry.
Scott

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by goudey1933

Coming from prewar now into postwar cards I was wondering how the 2 compare?I know in PW SGC is the preferred.I know this has been beaten to death on the other forum...probably here too...sorry.
Scott

PSA is preferred for both until you show me ebay ads that say PSA 'Not SGC'

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

PSA is preferred for both until you show me ebay ads that say PSA 'Not SGC'

LOL, Yes PSA is preferred by those that like to pay more for the same exact card/grade. It is baffling to me but hey it is their $.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by goudey1933

Coming from prewar now into postwar cards I was wondering how the 2 compare?I know this has been beaten to death on the other forum...probably here too...sorry.
Scott

It really depends on what your end goal is. Are you a collector, are you buying to resell, are you buying graded, or are you buying raw and then getting graded?

If you give more specific info I am sure you will get some very good answers and not troll like posts like Jake's and my troll like response to him.

[goudey1933]

Originally Posted by bnorth

It really depends on what your end goal is. Are you a collector, are you buying to resell, are you buying graded, or are you buying raw and then getting graded?

If you give more specific info I am sure you will get some very good answers and not troll like posts like Jake's and my troll like response to him.

Buying graded.

[DBesse27]

PSA is the king of postwar. With that being said, SGC is next (better than BVG) and has the best looking holders.

[pokerplyr80]

From what I have noticed a higher end SGC card will sell for somewhere around half way between the equivalent PSA grade and one below. Aside from cards like the 52 Mantle yesterday that transcend their grade.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

PSA is preferred for both until you show me ebay ads that say PSA 'Not SGC'

Speak for yourself. Some of us prefer our cards accurately graded.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Speak for yourself. Some of us prefer our cards accurately graded.

right we all want that....

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Speak for yourself. Some of us prefer our cards accurately graded.

I'm curious how many will share your opinion with everything that was revealed in that Mastro post. If you can't trust the president of the grading site, how can you trust that the grades are accurate and fair?

Most of my cards are PSA graded, but I am worried about what will happen to the value of the couple in SGC holders. Although perhaps this will just blow over in the minds of those collectors who aren't active on these forums.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I'm curious how many will share your opinion with everything that was revealed in that Mastro post. If you can't trust the president of the grading site, how can you trust that the grades are accurate and fair?

Most of my cards are PSA graded, but I am worried about what will happen to the value of the couple in SGC holders. Although perhaps this will just blow over in the minds of those collectors who aren't active on these forums.

With all the PSA people listed in that same document why would SGC suffer and PSA get off with no fallout?

My guess is this blows over like it never happened in a very short time. It is like steroids in baseball. Everyone knew and those that did not had their head stuck in the sand and didn't want to know.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by goudey1933

Buying graded.

Are you buying as a hobby or are you buying for investment?

If for hobby I would buy what ever one you think the cards look nicer in.

If for investment it is more of a card by card decision. Always buy the card and not the holder because eye appeal means a lot. You can always crack it out and get it into what ever magic plastic holder is selling for the most when you decide to sell.

[jchcollins]

The trend seems to be that PSA has a higher resale value, but in terms of accuracy of grading I have seen both of those companies make mistakes all over the place in the past. Each unto his own, I would say.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sbfinley]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I'm curious how many will share your opinion with everything that was revealed in that Mastro post. If you can't trust the president of the grading site, how can you trust that the grades are accurate and fair?

Most of my cards are PSA graded, but I am worried about what will happen to the value of the couple in SGC holders. Although perhaps this will just blow over in the minds of those collectors who aren't active on these forums.

I share the opinion. SGC does an accurate job at grading cards. That's what I pay them to do. Someone else stated in the apocalypse thread that we should boycott TPG companies who have undertaken unethical practices, put collectors at risk, or have done things that present a conflict of interest. If you feel the same way, more power to you but from my experience you have now limited your card submissions to Verisleeve. (Not knocking Verisleeve, I actually like their concept.)

SGC recently had key members of the company outed in the release. It's damning and I'm disappointed, but it's not a death blow and in a month the hobby will move on to something else. They employ some of the most accurate graders and despite what the homemade flyers nailed to lamp posts around here, they don't universally sell for pennies of PSA. Their turnaround times are near spot on, and the slab is beautiful especially with vintage. I use them for my vintage cards and will likely forever continue to.

PSA had as many or more names listed, the only difference was their title with the company. The company colluded on the hobby's most iconic fraud, it took years (boderline decades) for them to improve upon the hobby's easiest to tamper slab, their turnaround time on specials is measured by the seasons, and they whitewash their image like Stalin's photo album. For example: last year I received a ban from their message board for outing this BS they allow:



I didn't call out PSA for stupidly slabbing this in the manner they did. I simply posted it to warn people what to look for so they don't make a costly mistake (the auction winner ended up bidding $1300 for what in reality is a $30 card). Over night the thread vanished I was banned without an explanation or even a "hey you've been banned" email. It took two months of email tag and an 'apology' from me to forum administrator to get reinstated. But hey, at least it's not a widespread issue and this was just a one time oversight....



Oh wait, it's not. They allow stupid sh$t like this to be slabbed constantly that cause uneducated collectors to lose thousands of dollars. Crap like this pops up on eBay weekly and PSA's lack for foresight to prevent this is astounding. This crap is subbed in this manner for one reason only... to take advantage of the uneducated and scam some money... and PSA is totally cool with it.

That being said, their grading and alteration detection is fairly accurate, their implementation of the registry was brilliant, and they have one of the best reputations in the hobby. I use their PSA/DNA service for my signed cards and most of the 50's and 60's sets I work are PSA. I see no reason why this will end anytime soon.

Beckett was not on the list from what I could gleam, they must be smart enough not to conflict themselves. Except for the fact YOU CAN TOTALLY LET THEM GRADE YOUR CARDS AND THEN AUCTION THEM FOR YOU. Lord could you imagine the mudshow that would erupt if you opened up a catalog and saw a m101 Ruth graded REA 8 in a REA Auction. Peter Nash would have a stroke and need a new change of britches. Also....

This crap...


Da fuque was this ever supposed to accomplish, why is it still a thing, and seriously tell me who ever... ever.... ever... thought it was a good idea.

Yet I still like Beckett. Their slabs can stop a bullet and they've corned the modern market. I appreciate the semi-transparency of their sub grades that give you insight into why you received the grades assigned. Remember that PSA crap I posted above with the Jordan? They refuse to slab such in a manner that might trick an future unsuspecting buyer (they used to label them 'not authentic signature' now they refuse to slab) because, ya know, they have some common sense and all. I use them for my modern cards and pack pulled autos and likely will until forever.


Point being, they've all done stupid sh$t that has caused me to stop and wonder "why? really?" and between personal shilling practices, sheer stupidity, and whatever the heck BCCG is supposed to be they have wittingly cost the collectors they are in the business of protecting thousands of dollars. But at the end of the day they accurately grade cards and put them plastic blocks which is pretty much what they tell me they are going to and all I ask them to do, so like my parents always said.... "I'm not mad. I'm just disappointed."

Happy Collecting.

[DeanH3]

Has there ever been an explanation of the WIWAG little thingy?

[pokerplyr80]

I think there is a big difference between someone who works for a company and someone who owns or runs one to be involved in this kind of activity. Although obviously both situations are a problem.

Personally I don't believe the owner of a grading site should be able to grade his own cards and sell them in any auction, shilled or not. Seems like the definition of a conflict of interest. What do you think the result would be if he asked for a grade review before selling a card? Imagine him buying a nice SGC 7 52 Mantle and then selling the same card in an SGC 8 holder.

I would hope PSA has procedures in place if employees want to submit cards for grading, or bans this all together, but I do not know the answer to that.

[whitehse]

Originally Posted by DeanH3

Has there ever been an explanation of the WIWAG little thingy?

I am convinced the hobby will never get an explanation of the wigwam thingy.

[DeanH3]

Originally Posted by whitehse

I am convinced the hobby will never get an explanation of the wigwam thingy.

Exactly. Both companies have skeletons in the closet. I guess it just depends on which skeleton you want to ignore.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Personally I don't believe the owner of a grading site should be able to grade his own cards and sell them in any auction, shilled or not.

I would hope PSA has procedures in place if employees want to submit cards for grading, or bans this all together, but I do not know the answer to that.

Steve Hart authenticates his own packs (and graded through PSA) and sells them on his site (BBCE). What's the difference?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Steve Hart authenticates his own packs (and graded through PSA) and sells them on his site (BBCE). What's the difference?

David, everyone who sells raw cards and gives an opinion on their authenticity and grade is grading his own cards too. But I guess the difference is that they are not purporting to be THIRD PARTY graders?

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Steve Hart authenticates his own packs (and graded through PSA) and sells them on his site (BBCE). What's the difference?

I don't see much of a difference there. I don't feel either should be allowed, but my opinion doesn't count for much. I think if I was grading my own packs, cards, autographs, or anything else the temptation to over grade, or at least overlook flaws in borderline situations, would be too hard to resist. Especially in cases where a grade, or even half a grade, can mean thousands of dollars.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I don't see much of a difference there. I don't feel either should be allowed, but my opinion doesn't count for much. I think if I was grading my own packs, cards, autographs, or anything else the temptation to over grade, or at least overlook flaws in borderline situations, would be too hard to resist. Especially in cases where a grade, or even half a grade, can mean thousands of dollars.

Yup, agreed.

[sbfinley]

If I'm not mistaken (correct me if I am), Steve Hart does not "grade" packs for PSA, he only authenticates them. From my understanding PSA bulk mails all unopened subs to him once a month and he only judges the authenticity. When they return to PSA with with his approval are they assigned a number grade. And yes, his seal of approval is worth a premium (IMO) because he's the best at what he does. I nailed PSA for some shenanigans earlier in this thread, but they get a pass from me on this process.

[glynparson]

Psa. With very few exceptions they just are more liquid and bring more money. I also think most of their graded items over the last 3 years are consistent and strictly graded. I am rarely disappointed buying sight unseen I can not say the same for sgc anymore. Sorry that's just how I feel. They used to be harsher graders than they seem to now be. I also hate the cheap 1980s look of the slab. The new tags are an improvement but not enough of one and they also scratch far to easily. I prefer the size of the Psa holder and I prefer the new security measures they have incorporated. I also am not a fan of the sgc insert as I think it occasionally has damaged cards and I am not sure of the long term effects it may have on a card. I think both are light years ahead of Beckett as far as grading ability. the only items I send to sgc are those Psa does not slab like the 1974 topps puzzles. I think sgc does a good job I just think Psa now does a better job.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by sbfinley

If I'm not mistaken (correct me if I am), Steve Hart does not "grade" packs for PSA, he only authenticates them. From my understanding PSA bulk mails all unopened subs to him once a month and he only judges the authenticity. When they return to PSA with with his approval are they assigned a number grade. And yes, his seal of approval is worth a premium (IMO) because he's the best at what he does. I nailed PSA for some shenanigans earlier in this thread, but they get a pass from me on this process.

Correct, Steve Hart does not grade the packs, he only authenticates them. I think my point was missed though. Earlier in the thread, someone inferred that grading companies (owners or employees) should not be allowed to grade their own cards and sell them. I agree with that. That same person then said there is too much temptation to over grade or overlook flaws. I agree with that too, not to mention there is also too much temptation for corruption.

My point was that Steve Hart authenticates his own unopened product and then sends it to PSA for grading. What's to keep Steve honest? Who is verifying his work? Can I authenticate my own packs and send them to PSA for grading? I guarantee you I can authenticate just as good as he does. He's made his mistakes, but we won't get into those. But my point is that graders/authenticaters should not be allowed to grade and/or authenticate their own stuff and then sell it - it's just too much room for corruption.

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Speak for yourself. Some of us prefer our cards accurately graded.

Good one..

[sbfinley]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Correct, Steve Hart does not grade the packs, he only authenticates them. I think my point was missed though. Earlier in the thread, someone inferred that grading companies (owners or employees) should not be allowed to grade their own cards and sell them. I agree with that. That same person then said there is too much temptation to over grade or overlook flaws. I agree with that too, not to mention there is also too much temptation for corruption.

My point was that Steve Hart authenticates his own unopened product and then sends it to PSA for grading. What's to keep Steve honest? Who is verifying his work? Can I authenticate my own packs and send them to PSA for grading? I guarantee you I can authenticate just as good as he does. He's made his mistakes, but we won't get into those. But my point is that graders/authenticaters should not be allowed to grade and/or authenticate their own stuff and then sell it - it's just too much room for corruption.

I would agree with your point if he wasn't already widely regarded as the best and most honest unopened specialist before PSA contracted him. That marriage notwithstanding, his authenticated packs, boxes, and cases already sell for a steep premium. If it's wrapped by his brand - add 25%. If it comes with a FAFSC sticker as well - add another 15%. He doesn't need PSA. PSA needs him. His prices and reputation don't get to such a place by picking and choosing when to be honest. I don't doubt you could authenticate packs well, but when someone wants to sell or authenticate a high dollar pack or wax box they don't think to themselves "I should have David James look at this." Not knocking you, but you can't short a guy because he's built a brand - and an honest one at that. Yes, he's made mistakes here and there, but I do know he makes it right if he is wrong and the thousands of high grade important cards pulled from his packs speak volumes.

I'm sorry but I don't believe a well respected businessman in the hobby should recluse themselves because they were deemed good enough by a TPG or TPA to work with. Jim Stinson is at the top of my list when it comes to autographs and I trust him implicitly. If tomorrow he were contracted by Spence to authenticate for JSA I wouldn't start questioning his items he still sold until I was given a strict reason to.

You asked "what's to keep Steve Hart honest?" The answer: nothing. This hobby, however, requires you operate with a semblance of trust occasionally - in sellers, buyers, authenticators, etc. If I had none for anyone whatsoever I'd collect thimbles. Because thimbles seem safe.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by sbfinley

I would agree with your point if he wasn't already widely regarded as the best and most honest

That exact same thing could have been said for many in the hobby at one time or another who were later found out to be a crook.

"(Insert name here) is one of the best and most honest..."

The thread on the main board is full of those names.

I think most people would agree with me there is a huge conflict of interest to grade/authenticate your own collectibles and then sell them. If you don't agree, that's ok. We'll agree to disagree

[sbfinley]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

We'll agree to disagree

Nothing wrong with that my friend.

[Baseball Bob]

You are joking, right? Nothing wrong with grading and then selling your own cards when your business is grading cards? Not only highly unethical, but it's also just terrible business. Now, if you disclosed every card that you had personally graded and then were trying to sell, that would be fair! Only a true sucker would buy the card then!!

[begsu1013]

prior to "the list", i would say that recent tendencies show that the average collector is waking up and doesn't really matter.

they are caring less about the flips and more about the card themselves.

more focus seems to be placed upon centering and overall eye appeal when we are talking anything within a 2 grade range or so...

there are amazing 5's that blow avg 7's outta the water and so on.

some dead centered sgc 4s are selling for more than a psa straight 5 (which may be a lil oc and not as appealing).

shoot for overall eye appeal in either...

until sgc owner and boat have been reported missing off the coast of boca and after a week the coast guard has announced they are calling off the search. and it just so happens to be hurricane season.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Baseball Bob

You are joking, right? Nothing wrong with grading and then selling your own cards when your business is grading cards? Not only highly unethical, but it's also just terrible business. Now, if you disclosed every card that you had personally graded and then were trying to sell, that would be fair! Only a true sucker would buy the card then!!

a little bit like insider trading, in the stock market they disclose what the officers of companys shares are and if they are selling them..