What do you think of this DiMaggio ball?

[RichardSimon]

Opinions please

[Big Dave]

Not an authentic Joe DiMaggio.

[Runscott]

[CMIZ5290]

Not good.....

[RichardSimon]

So 3-3 say it is not good (I assume Scott's smiley meant not good).
I agree with that consensus.
Now take a look at where that ball comes from and who it is certed by:

http://sports.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleN...6&ts=off#Photo

[J.McMurry]

what does "Pre-Certified" mean exactly? is this another item for sale thats not really for sale?

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by J.McMurry

what does "Pre-Certified" mean exactly? is this another item for sale thats not really for sale?

Jody - I have never been sure what pre certified means. Does it mean they really did not look at it but trust the auction house? Does it mean they had a cursory look at a scan or a quick opinion kind of thing? Your guess is as good as mine.
But you would think that between PSA and the two former major autograph dealers on their staff that they would get this one right.
And the item is for sale, it has a $55 bid currently. No excuses on this one, it is really for sale, it is not in preview.

And btw - I have an account with Heritage though I have never bid there. I logged onto their site the other day (after I posted negative comments about the Cobb ball fiasco) and my account was suspended.

[Moesalty]

I, by no means, am anything of an "expert", but was fortunate enough to obtain several DiMaggio autos in person. The "m" looks nothing like mine... For what it's worth.

[Bilko G]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

And btw - I have an account with Heritage though I have never bid there. I logged onto their site the other day (after I posted negative comments about the Cobb ball fiasco) and my account was suspended.

WOW

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Moesalty

I, by no means, am anything of an "expert", but was fortunate enough to obtain several DiMaggio autos in person. The "m" looks nothing like mine... For what it's worth.

There are lots of problems with that autograph with the "m" certainly being the most prominent.

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by J.McMurry

what does "Pre-Certified" mean exactly? is this another item for sale thats not really for sale?

PSA's "Pre-Certified" is basically what they used to call an "Auction LOA" without the piece of paper. Same kind of guarantee that they had looked at it as before, but if you want the full LOA, you can send it in within so many days of the auction and get a discount on the fees.

Supposedly, anything that is "Pre-Certified" is guaranteed to get a Full LOA if you send it in, so it's like getting the thumbs-up without the re-sellable documentation. They're reason for changing to this was something about too many "Auction LOAs" being used in the same way a full LOA would be when auction winners flipped the items on eBay and elsewhere.

I'm not weighing in on whether they're right or wrong or the real motivation behind the change. Just giving info. I have no idea what would happen if you submitted a pre-certified item that they then determined to be non-authentic, or if pre-certified items are handled differently when re-submitted than a newly-submitted item would be.

[Fuddjcal]

this is going on way too much lately and its ridiculous.

[Big Dave]

Well, with the help and complicity of eBay, they have wiped out all their competition, so what do they care if they become / are like all the other incompetent losers that everybody complains about?

[travrosty]

Several people have had their accounts banned, canceled and suspended for voicing their concerns over this issue. I think what happened to Richard stinks. Is this what Heritage is all about?

Heritage takes a bow like they are doing everyone a favor, only AFTER people had to bring this to the public's attention, because after privately bringing it to heritage's attention, they were told to go away.

So then Heritage promises to be a good corporate citizen and fix the problem because they realize it's not the best way to do business, then this same good corporate citizen hands out behind-the-scenes suspended, canceled, and banned accounts.

Funny, that wasn't mentioned at all in their statement they made to the public regarding this issue. They didn't say 'By the way, we will be making this change, but suspending the accounts of those who brought it to light and challenged us in the public square.'

This wasn't a preview item, but live and open for bidding, like the boxing glove I showed also. We were promised this only happened to preview items. So this item actually has the precertification from PSA? I guess so since we heard from Heritage that the items that had this phantom notation weren't for sale, no way no how, and never would have been for sale. so this must not be a phantom pre-certification then, but real?

Is it live or Memorex? Heritage? Please forward a message to this board and explain.

And if anyone speaks freely about their concerns. Well, what can I say? I am no longer able to log in and bid at Heritage either since this all came about a few months ago.
I had never placed a bid with them, but was told my account was suspended because they had tried but failed to satisfactorily do business with me. If I had never placed a bid with them, how is this a failure to do business? It didn't have anything to do with doing business with them.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by thecatspajamas

PSA's "Pre-Certified" is basically what they used to call an "Auction LOA" without the piece of paper. Same kind of guarantee that they had looked at it as before, but if you want the full LOA, you can send it in within so many days of the auction and get a discount on the fees.

Supposedly, anything that is "Pre-Certified" is guaranteed to get a Full LOA if you send it in, so it's like getting the thumbs-up without the re-sellable documentation. They're reason for changing to this was something about too many "Auction LOAs" being used in the same way a full LOA would be when auction winners flipped the items on eBay and elsewhere.

I'm not weighing in on whether they're right or wrong or the real motivation behind the change. Just giving info. I have no idea what would happen if you submitted a pre-certified item that they then determined to be non-authentic, or if pre-certified items are handled differently when re-submitted than a newly-submitted item would be.

So supposedly they have looked at it but have not issued a piece of paper for it?
According to another post in another thread it does not even mean that but I don't know for sure and I would not state that as fact. The other post stated that pre-certified meant that they did not even look at it and the auction house is the only entity that has "authenticated" it.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by travrosty

Several people have had their accounts banned, canceled and suspended for voicing their concerns over this issue. I think what happened to Richard stinks. Is this what Heritage is all about?

How un-American can they get? This is still a free country last time I looked.

[smotan_02]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

How un-American can they get? This is still a free country last time I looked.

Ah the little known 11th amendment...."In states of a man's mark be it on cowhide or a likeness, where the validity in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of expulsion for a question of a sellers true intention should be preserved by that very auction house."

They can refuse the right to sell to anyone, they are only hurting themselves with the practice.

[Sean1125]

If I'm not mistaken, the Ty Cobb that was pulled also said "Pre-certified", but PSA said they had not looked at it or authenticated it in any way.... So I'd have to assume that heritage is just using PSA's likeness with this "pre-certified" crap... I believe that their guys look at it and if their in house guys think it is good they throw PSA's name on their..

Honestly... If you were sold a fake item and had it authenticated and it came back bad and paid for it they would be entitled to refund the fees as well as full auction price/BP right?

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Sean1125

If I'm not mistaken, the Ty Cobb that was pulled also said "Pre-certified", but PSA said they had not looked at it or authenticated it in any way.... So I'd have to assume that heritage is just using PSA's likeness with this "pre-certified" crap... I believe that their guys look at it and if their in house guys think it is good they throw PSA's name on their..

Honestly... If you were sold a fake item and had it authenticated and it came back bad and paid for it they would be entitled to refund the fees as well as full auction price/BP right?

Fat chance of that I bet.

The Cobb ball was in preview and Heritage assumed, incorrectly, that PSA would authenticate it, so they said it was pre-certified. This DiMaggio ball is for sale, bids racing in, all the way up to $55. So what does pre-authenticate mean in a real auction, not a preview.

[GoldenAge50s]

There isn't a SINGLE letter from J to io in that sig that look good to me!!

[batsballsbases]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

How un-American can they get? This is still a free country last time I looked.

Richard,
Well not always so free! Land of the free and home of the all mighty dollar!

[thetruthisoutthere]

That is a horrible Joe DiMaggio and there is no way that PSA authenticated it.

[J.McMurry]

I think some auction houses are operating under what I call the car dealer philosophy,.. Promise 'em anything to make the sale and good luck to 'em collecting on any claims down the road.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

That is a horrible Joe DiMaggio and there is no way that PSA authenticated it.

If that is true, that PSA did not authenticate it, than the entire system of authentication by pre-certification really stinks and it is not worth the paper that those PSA pre-certs are printed on.
If PSA did not authenticate it are they aware that Heritage uses the PSA name to verify an autograph?
Something really stinks here if PSA did not examine this autograph.
Something really stinks here if PSA did examine this autograph.
And I know some can make a stink that there is very little money involved in this item, but lets multiply that by who knows how often this might occur.
Heritage are you just slapping a PSA COA on any item you choose to, without any examination at all? If so, why is PSA allowing that?
We know that people from Heritage read this forum as they have responded to prior threads. I think perhaps some answers are in order now.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

If that is true, that PSA did not authenticate it, than the entire system of authentication by pre-certification really stinks and it is not worth the paper that those PSA pre-certs are printed on.
If PSA did not authenticate it are they aware that Heritage uses the PSA name to verify an autograph?
Something really stinks here if PSA did not examine this autograph.
Something really stinks here if PSA did examine this autograph.
And I know some can make a stink that there is very little money involved in this item, but lets multiply that by who knows how often this might occur.
Heritage are you just slapping a PSA COA on any item you choose to, without any examination at all? If so, why is PSA allowing that?
We know that people from Heritage read this forum as they have responded to prior threads. I think perhaps some answers are in order now.

This aspect of B.S. in the autograph industry should be added to Travis's TPA "Bill of Rights".

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

So supposedly they have looked at it but have not issued a piece of paper for it? According to another post in another thread it does not even mean that but I don't know for sure and I would not state that as fact. The other post stated that pre-certified meant that they did not even look at it and the auction house is the only entity that has "authenticated" it.

PSA's definition of "Pre-Certified" from their website, near the bottom of the page:

http://www.psacard.com/about/what_is_grading.chtml

"PSA/DNA Pre-Certified
As a hobbyist, you may see the PSA/DNA Pre-Certified logo in various auction house catalogues or online. It is a service unique to auctions and to autographs found within. The purpose of the service is to let the prospective bidders know whether an autographed auction item will pass PSA/DNA should that person win the item and want to send it in for authentication immediately after the auction closes. If you see the Pre-Certified logo, it means the item has been reviewed by our experts and is absolutely guaranteed to pass."

Also found an announcement from May of 2009 when PSA stopped issuing "Auction House LOAs" and started using the term "pre-certified."

http://www.auctionreport.com/psa/psa...ction-service/

Feel free to speculate what this actually means in practice, but it does not mean that PSA gives the auction house wholesale license to rubber-stamp their name on any item the in-house authenticator deems legitimate.

[RichardSimon]

So according to the Heritage ad for that ball and the PSA website, PSA did examine that ball and deem it authentic. And PSA guarantees its authenticity.

[Big Dave]

PSA/DNA does not guarantee the authenticity of the autograph, they just guarantee it will pass their inspection. Pretty much what Morales, TTA, Coach Corner, Frangipani, JSA, and all the rest guarantee. All brands of toilet paper guarantee the same thing too.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

PSA did examine that ball and deem it authentic. And PSA guarantees its authenticity.

Uh oh. Now that's gonna upset our buddy Chris, who declared "That is a horrible Joe DiMaggio and there is no way that PSA authenticated it."

Looks like Chris is gonna have to rethink his worldview.

[earlywynnfan]

[QUOTE=thecatspajamas;978473]PSA's definition of "Pre-Certified" from their website, near the bottom of the page:

http://www.psacard.com/about/what_is_grading.chtml

"PSA/DNA Pre-Certified
As a hobbyist, you may see the PSA/DNA Pre-Certified logo in various auction house catalogues or online. It is a service unique to auctions and to autographs found within. The purpose of the service is to let the prospective bidders know whether an autographed auction item will pass PSA/DNA should that person win the item and want to send it in for authentication immediately after the auction closes. If you see the Pre-Certified logo, it means the item has been reviewed by our experts and is absolutely guaranteed to pass."



Well, not to throw a monkey wrench in this, but I won a small group of baseballs from a smaller auction a couple years ago. They were PSA pre-certified, and there was one $100 ball and several $10 balls. The auctioneer owed me a favor, so he said he'd send the good ball for an official cert on his dime. Guess what? It failed!

I imagine that the authenticators go through the room, checking out lots. They scan each lot, picking the most desirable or most forged autos and giving them a quick eyeball. How do you guys imagine this works?

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

[Scott Garner]

[QUOTE=earlywynnfan;978512]

Originally Posted by thecatspajamas

PSA's definition of "Pre-Certified" from their website, near the bottom of the page:

http://www.psacard.com/about/what_is_grading.chtml

"PSA/DNA Pre-Certified
As a hobbyist, you may see the PSA/DNA Pre-Certified logo in various auction house catalogues or online. It is a service unique to auctions and to autographs found within. The purpose of the service is to let the prospective bidders know whether an autographed auction item will pass PSA/DNA should that person win the item and want to send it in for authentication immediately after the auction closes. If you see the Pre-Certified logo, it means the item has been reviewed by our experts and is absolutely guaranteed to pass."


Well, not to throw a monkey wrench in this, but I won a small group of baseballs from a smaller auction a couple years ago. They were PSA pre-certified, and there was one $100 ball and several $10 balls. The auctioneer owed me a favor, so he said he'd send the good ball for an official cert on his dime. Guess what? It failed!

I imagine that the authenticators go through the room, checking out lots. They scan each lot, picking the most desirable or most forged autos and giving them a quick eyeball. How do you guys imagine this works?

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

They cash your check regardless. What can you say other then it's a moneymaker for the XYZ companies?

[Vintagedegu]

-

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

If that is true, that PSA did not authenticate it, than the entire system of authentication by pre-certification really stinks and it is not worth the paper that those PSA pre-certs are printed on.
If PSA did not authenticate it are they aware that Heritage uses the PSA name to verify an autograph?
Something really stinks here if PSA did not examine this autograph.
Something really stinks here if PSA did examine this autograph.
And I know some can make a stink that there is very little money involved in this item, but lets multiply that by who knows how often this might occur.
Heritage are you just slapping a PSA COA on any item you choose to, without any examination at all? If so, why is PSA allowing that?
We know that people from Heritage read this forum as they have responded to prior threads. I think perhaps some answers are in order now.

Very valid points,

Is it live or is it memorex? When is an item at heritage inspected and issued an loa or precertification, and when is it not?

they dropped the ball and i would love to hear an explanation too, but they have to come up with one first that they think will fly.

Let's hear it heritage!

And how does someone know for sure that psa did not authenticate that ball? It says so right on the auction listing, and it is not a 'preview' item, but a live item open for bidding. You have to take a listing at face value. It says precertified by psa, so it's precertified by PSA.

Chris Ivy said that the 'preview' items, that are not for sale, carried the phantom LOA's, not live items. This is a live item. So what is the excuse this week?

[Vintagedegu]

-

[HRBAKER]

Sounds like mostly a way to pass the majority of the cost of the authentication on to the bidder/winner but for the auction house to be able to reap the benefits of the item being certified.

[Bilko G]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

Sounds like mostly a way to pass the majority of the cost of the authentication on to the bidder/winner but for the auction house to be able to reap the benefits of the item being certified.

thats exactly what is.

Not to mention, if i win a new item that is already "pre certified" by PSA as being genuine, the last thing i want to have to do is mail it off for a few weeks to get the full loa.

[RichardSimon]

Look at what it says on the Heritage site when you click the link to that auction:

This lot has been withdrawn from this auction. Bids are no longer accepted and previous bids have been cancelled.
Wow,, I guess I will never be allowed to re-register with Heritage now .

[RichardSimon]

Now the questions remain: (boy it is nice to know that Heritage reads this board)

1- Did PSA ever look at that ball and the 500 HR ball that Shelly wrote about that was also removed?
2- Did Heritage somehow issue a PSA pre-cert for these baseballs, without an examination by PSA, and if so how can they do that? Did PSA supply them with pre-certs?
3- Or did Heritage have their own in house authorities (two former well known autograph dealers) examine the baseballs?

Anyone care to speculate if these questions will be answered?