Talk about an amazing ROI

[HOFAUTOS]

Bought for $108 on CC http://www.myccsa.com/lot/242/lloyd-...-postcard.aspx




Resold on Huggins & Scott for $3,000

http://s01.hugginsandscott.com/cgi-b...id=270&lotno=0

Holy cow someone did good lol

[jimjim]

So I have a question... I was just looking at the Coach's Corner website, and they seem to have a lot of very rare items up for auction that are in very good condition. Does anybody find this a bit questionable?

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by jimjim

So I have a question... I was just looking at the Coach's Corner website, and they seem to have a lot of very rare items up for auction that are in very good condition. Does anybody find this a bit questionable?

It's not questionable. It's all fake.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by jimjim

So I have a question... I was just looking at the Coach's Corner website, and they seem to have a lot of very rare items up for auction that are in very good condition. Does anybody find this a bit questionable?

Um, yeah...

[D. Bergin]

Odds are they trip over a good one every once in awhile.

[Bored5000]

Does Coach's Corner occasionally have real stuff sprinkled in with all the fakes or is this a fake that got past JSA and Huggins and Scott? Who would consign a real Lloyd Waner signed Perez postcard to CC knowing you would get less than 10 percent of its value?

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

Does Coaches Corner occasionally hvae real stuff sprinkled in with all the fakes or is this a fake that got past JSA and Huggins and Scott?

I would answer yes to both. Just my opinion.

[chaddurbin]

i also believe CC would consign any good item(s) they have to a legit AH.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

i also believe CC would consign any good item(s) they have to a legit AH.

Agreed. Everything on their site is assumed to be fake, and prices reflect that attitude. They realize that as well as anyone.

[dapro]

So someone got a real thing for cheap and made $$$ or someone paid a lot for a fake. I am not too familiar with this item.

EDIT: Ok, I think I will answer my own question. The guy seems to buy it then got it authenticated at jsa and made bank. Good for him.

[jimjim]

I think in this case JSA was an unknowing conduit for allowing a fake autograph to officially enter the market. Kinda like money laundering. JSA didn't even know they were partaking in this little activity. Somebody should contact JSA and Huggins to let them know and hopefully they will take the item back and destroy it. Somebody just paid 3k for something that is most likely fake.

[travrosty]

Remember, we are talking about JSA here.

If they were aware of the place it came from what is the percentage of chance it would have passed JSA?

answer - you know the answer. That's why it's hardly considered an authentication vs. the old saw "where did you get it?"



imagine at a show:

authenticator: where did you get it?

collector - "coaches corner"

authenticator: ________________





now what is the authenticator going to say?
we know what he is going to say.

[JimStinson]

Reminds me of the great Harry Houdini ! Turn a rabbit into an elephant and then turn the elephant back into a rabbit again. So convincing that you have to remind yourself it didn't really happen , it was just an illusion
_____________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

[JimStinson]

In this case it appears the Elephant is patiently waiting to be turned back into a rabbit again
______________________
jim@stinsonsports.com
web site
stinsonsports.com

[RichardSimon]

I would not be a buyer of that card at $100.

[dapro]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

I would not be a buyer of that card at $100.

I am confuse. That card is fake, but jsa put their sticker on it?

[whyconform]

Third Party Authenticators make mistakes ......

[shelly]

Yea, you can make a mistake but there are only about three Waner'sknown to exist this become's a really really big one.

[JimStinson]

Originally Posted by shelly

Yea, you can make a mistake but there are only about three Waner'sknown to exist this become's a really really big one.

+1 or...don't attempt to drive a Ferrari with a "learner permit"
Requires a second more experienced driver in the car at all times
_____________________
jim@stinsonsports.com
web site
stinsonsports.com

[JimStinson]

When Ricky gets home Lucy is gonna have some "SPLAININ" to do
__________________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

[chaddurbin]

consignor got their money, H&S got their commission, JSA got their fees...everyone happy. poor winner hope he finds this thread in time.

[Plinvestments]

I brought one of my items into JSA and was told that it needed further review since not all of the authenticators were present. Apparently, 7 people needed to look at the item and 5 had to say it was good. I wonder how many thought this Waner was authentic.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Plinvestments

I brought one of my items into JSA and was told that it needed further review since not all of the authenticators were present. Apparently, 7 people needed to look at the item and 5 had to say it was good. I wonder how many thought this Waner was authentic.

The 5th guy is back, and he says it is good.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by Plinvestments

I brought one of my items into JSA and was told that it needed further review since not all of the authenticators were present. Apparently, 7 people needed to look at the item and 5 had to say it was good. I wonder how many thought this Waner was authentic.

7 people have to look at it? They got 7 people at shows? they run three shows simulataneously, they got 21 people out on the shows at any given time?

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

consignor got their money, H&S got their commission, JSA got their fees...everyone happy. poor winner hope he finds this thread in time.

What would the winner do? They bid on a signed card that JSA certed. I'm sure H&S will deliver exactly that upon payment. Others can give opinions all day long, but JSA has given theirs and H&S will stand behind that.

The winner could certainly refuse to pay. All H&S could do is ban said winner from future auctions, no?

[chaddurbin]

if the winner knows the history of the item i don't think he would pay. easy choice whether to be banned from an auction or save 3k.

[HOFAUTOS]

I'm not going to get into if it is authentic or not. I was reading a thread on here about rare Petez Steeles and decided to google Waner to see images. Low and behold I found it at the two websites. I thought the hammer price was crazy until I saw one sold for over $5,000 at a Legendary Auction!

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by HOFAUTOS

I thought the hammer price was crazy until I saw one sold for over $5,000 at a Legendary Auction!

That is probably why this one got "signed"

[yanks12025]

wow

[johnmh71]

It's like GAI. There are alot of autos out there that aren't Williams, Mantle, or DiMaggio which are real with their cert on them. You just need to be able to pick between the good and the bad.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by johnmh71

It's like GAI. There are alot of autos out there that aren't Williams, Mantle, or DiMaggio which are real with their cert on them. You just need to be able to pick between the good and the bad.

No, it's not like GAI. GAI had it's problems, but it wasn't an operation that was set up to knowingly move fake autographs.

[shelly]

Originally Posted by Runscott

No, it's not like GAI. GAI had it's problems, but it wasn't an operation that was set up to knowingly move fake autographs.

Sorry, at the end that is exactly what they did.

[Big Dave]

As he stated, it wasn't set up for that, but in the end, someone's actions tainted a lot of good signatures merely because they have a GAI cert, not because they are not authentic.

[johnmh71]

Originally Posted by Big Dave

As he stated, it wasn't set up for that, but in the end, someone's actions tainted a lot of good signatures merely because they have a GAI cert, not because they are not authentic.

I couldn't have put it any better myself.

[Runscott]

If you rely on TPA's, then you admittedly have a better chance of buying something real if you go with JSA or PSA/DNA, as opposed to GAI. Is someone showed me a GAI-authenticated item that I was interested in, I would look, since there is a chance it could be real. If they showed me a CC item, I would laugh. If they were serious, I would lose respect for them.

I'm not a TPA guy, so my viewpoint is probably different from most peoples' in this forum.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Big Dave

As he stated, it wasn't set up for that, but in the end, someone's actions tainted a lot of good signatures merely because they have a GAI cert, not because they are not authentic.

The good signatures are still good. If you spot a GAI autograph that you are certain is good, you should be able to get it cheaper because the GAI cert lessens the value.

You are unlikely to ever see a CC autograph that you will feel is good - that's the difference.

[CW]

I am wondering if the subject line of this topic could be slightly edited to say something like, "Very questionable Lloyd Waner" so the buyer would have a better chance of seeing this thread? Just a suggestion...

[travrosty]

if you make the perez postcard into one of those stupid 1 of 1 limited editions, they go for 6000 apiece.

http://www.legendaryauctions.com/Lot...0-%221-of-1%22

[travrosty]

Coaches corner used to go to spence according to this article by ted taylor.

http://articles.philly.com/1998-04-3...ctors-collages

[Runscott]

Travis, that's disturbing. The comment about Malack seems out of place in that article, but it makes since that the author would check out other autograph sellers in the same state as Spence, and maybe he didn't realize that CC was crooked. Also, it would have been in CC's best interest to try to tie themselves to someone legitimate.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by travrosty

Coaches corner used to go to spence according to this article by ted taylor.

http://articles.philly.com/1998-04-3...ctors-collages

Consider who you are quoting here.

[dgo71]

Originally Posted by travrosty

if you make the perez postcard into one of those stupid 1 of 1 limited editions, they go for 6000 apiece.

http://www.legendaryauctions.com/Lot...0-%221-of-1%22

I was relieved to see this was the entire item slabbed as a 1-of-1. When I first read your post my heart shipped a beat thinking someone may have actually made a cut out of a Waner PS.

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Consider who you are quoting here.

My first thought too, along with "when" you are quoting. I don't know exactly where everybody in the story was when it was written, but it's not like that was written yesterday.

On a related note, how long has CC been around, anyway?

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by Runscott

No, it's not like GAI. GAI had it's problems, but it wasn't an operation that was set up to knowingly move fake autographs.

was cc set up to move fakes from the BEGINNING? if so why use spence. that is my observation.

Either it was a long time ago that they wanted to use spence and they didnt peddle fakes back then, or they did, but then why use spence? anyone?

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by thecatspajamas

My first thought too, along with "when" you are quoting. I don't know exactly where everybody in the story was when it was written, but it's not like that was written yesterday.

On a related note, how long has CC been around, anyway?

I used to get SCD as a kid in the 80's and Coaches Corner has been around for as long as I can remember. I even won a few non-sport items from them, before I knew any better.

[D. Bergin]

CC has always peppered their auctions with a few JSA and PSA authenticated items to try a legitimize the rest of their wares.

Whether they are items they were consigned from unaware collectors / estate managers or it was bad stuff they got by the TPA's, I don't know.

I know they have been around long enough and used to dominate SCD so thoroughly, they must have gotten SOME good items in from consignors who didn't know any better.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

CC has always peppered their auctions with a few JSA and PSA authenticated items to try a legitimize the rest of their wares.

Whether they are items they were consigned from unaware collectors / estate managers or it was bad stuff they got by the TPA's, I don't know.

I know they have been around long enough and used to dominate SCD so thoroughly, they must have gotten SOME good items in from consignors who didn't know any better.

I believe we have a much higher percentage of knowledgeable collectors in this forum, than exists outside of this forum. Given that we still have a lot of people who read this forum and get duped anyway, you can extrapolate how much greater this problem must be elsewhere. CC is still in business for a reason.

[JimStinson]

Back to initial topic consider this ....Lloyd Waner was part of the 4th series in the Perez/Steele set which was issued in 1981 , the set was NOT popular at that time nor was collecting baseball autographs and its likely most of the cards did not end up in collectors hands until LATE 1981, Waner was dying of emphysema a slow death, finally passing away July 22nd 1982. So while its possible he COULD have signed a few of the cards its extremely unlikely, Maybe one or two slipped through , But the window of opportunity was SO small. From a human point of view a sick dying man would probably not have "answering fan mail" real high on his "Things to do" list.IMHO
___________________
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web site
stinsonsports.com

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Runscott

I believe we have a much higher percentage of knowledgeable collectors in this forum, than exists outside of this forum. Given that we still have a lot of people who read this forum and get duped anyway, you can extrapolate how much greater this problem must be elsewhere. CC is still in business for a reason.

Absolutely. 1500+ lot auctions every month or so, even more in their SCD heyday. Casino gift shops and silent auctions on Cruise ships to fill up with material. Web sites full of bogus material popping up all the time. Local auction houses to bombard with "estate finds".

Impulse buyers everywhere.

[Runscott]

A quick google shows three additional copies of this card signed by Waner. Maybe they are all bogus?