W503: Some old news with a new twist, and might as well show what you got!

[brianp-beme]

The W503 set is a fantastic medium sized issue, in both dimensions and amount of subjects. It features some of the best Black and White photos seen in 1920's sets, especially in my opinion the action shots possess unusual clarity. Futhermore this set has the distinction of still being incorrectly identified as a hand cut strip card issue, which if studied closely, is clearly not the case.

The reason I am posting is to point out that both PSA and SGC identify this set on their labels as a 1922 issue. In Lew Lipset's The Encyclopedia of Baseball Cards published in the mid-1980's Lew pointed out that the W503 set was likely released in early 1923. In fact, not mentioned in the W503 article in Lew's book, the Herb Pennock card, which shows him with the Yankees, indicates that this card had to be printed after January 30th, 1923, as that was when he was traded to the Yankees from the Red Sox. Interestingly enough, the Norm MacMillan card shows that he is with the Yankees, but he was sent to the Red Sox on January 30th, 1923 for, you guessed it, Herb Pennock.

Lew theorized that this set was issued in two separate printings, cards 1-32 and 33-64 due to a series of reasons, first being the script differences between the first 32 numbered cards and the second group of 32 cards, as shown in the examples below, the fact that all the portraits seen in the set are contained within cards # 1 to 32, and the fact that 25 of the first 32 cards are either Giants or Yankees players, both participants in the 1922 World Series, while only 4 additional Giants and Yankees are seen in card #'s 33 through 64.

This focus on 1922 World Series participants in the first 32 cards point to a likely post-1922 World Series issue for this first series, thus card #10 of McMillan, who, as mentioned earlier is pictured as a Yankee, and card #51 Pennock, also identified as a Yankee, and who were traded for each other on January 30, 1923, would indicate a possible late 1922 issue for the first series of cards, and an early 1923 issue for the second issue.

The inclusion of #8 Jimmy O'Connell with the Giants, and #29 Willie Kamm with the White Sox, makes the first 32 cards being issued in late 1922 a little cloudy, as they both started their major league careers in 1923 for their respective club. To make matters even more atmospheric, however, is the fact they were both purchased by their respective clubs from the PCL San Francisco Seals much earlier, O'Connell on December 21, 1921, and Kamm on May 29th, 1922, but both continued to play all of the 1922 season with the Seals. A final card I think swings the entire set being issued solely during 1923: #14 Al DeVormer is shown as a Red Sox, and he was traded to the Red Sox on January 3, 1923.

Also admittedly the makers of this set were not too current with team designations in some cases, for example Rube Marquard is shown with the Dodgers, a team he last played for in 1920, and Lee Meadows is shown with the Cardinals, a team he last played for in 1919!

In conclusion the 1922 date utilized by both PSA and SGC is incorrect, as this set should be identified as 1923 instead, with the first series early in 1923, and the second series likely sometime later in 1923.

Brian (I was inspired to post this due the latest postings of this awesome thread on the Memorabilia side of the Net54 block...check it out, and the whole thread is worthwhile too: http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...=141145&page=4)

[midmo]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

Also admittedly the makers of this set were not too current with team designations in some cases, for example Lee Meadows is shown with the Cardinals, a team he last played for in 1919, and Jake Daubert with the Dodgers, a team he had last played for in 1918!

Were there two W503 Dauberts? I think I've only seen him as a Red.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by midmo

Were there two W503 Dauberts? I think I've only seen him as a Red.

Good spotting. An error on my part and the team checklist I was using for the set when I was researching this, as Daubert's team identification in the W503 set is indeed the Reds. I will switch out Daubert with Rube Marquard, whose card definitely identifies him as a Dodger, and the last time he was with Brooklyn was 1920.

Brian

[Leon]

I don't have anything to necessarily add but I do like the W503s...

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

The W503 set is a fantastic medium sized issue, in both dimensions and amount of subjects. It features some of the best Black and White photos seen in 1920's sets, especially in my opinion the action shots possess unusual clarity. Futhermore this set has the distinction of still being incorrectly identified as a hand cut strip card issue, which if studied closely, is clearly not the case.

The reason I am posting is to point out that both PSA and SGC identify this set on their labels as a 1922 issue. In Lew Lipset's The Encyclopedia of Baseball Cards published in the mid-1980's Lew pointed out that the W503 set was likely released in early 1923. In fact, not mentioned in the W503 article in Lew's book, the Herb Pennock card, which shows him with the Yankees, indicates that this card had to be printed after January 30th, 1923, as that was when he was traded to the Yankees from the Red Sox. Interestingly enough, the Norm MacMillan card shows that he is with the Yankees, but he was sent to the Red Sox on January 30th, 1923 for, you guessed it, Herb Pennock.

Lew theorized that this set was issued in two separate printings, cards 1-32 and 33-64 due to a series of reasons, first being the script differences between the first 32 numbered cards and the second group of 32 cards, as shown in the examples below, the fact that all the portraits seen in the set are contained within cards # 1 to 32, and the fact that 25 of the first 32 cards are either Giants or Yankees players, both participants in the 1922 World Series, while only 4 additional Giants and Yankees are seen in card #'s 33 through 64.

This focus on 1922 World Series participants in the first 32 cards point to a likely post-1922 World Series issue for this first series, thus card #10 of McMillan, who, as mentioned earlier is pictured as a Yankee, and card #51 Pennock, also identified as a Yankee, and who were traded for each other on January 30, 1923, would indicate a possible late 1922 issue for the first series of cards, and an early 1923 issue for the second issue.

The inclusion of #8 Jimmy O'Connell with the Giants, and #29 Willie Kamm with the White Sox, makes the first 32 cards being issued in late 1922 a little cloudy, as they both started their major league careers in 1923 for their respective club. To make matters even more atmospheric, however, is the fact they were both purchased by their respective clubs from the PCL San Francisco Seals much earlier, O'Connell on December 21, 1921, and Kamm on May 29th, 1922, but both continued to play all of the 1922 season with the Seals. A final card I think swings the entire set being issued solely during 1923: #14 Al DeVormer is shown as a Red Sox, and he was traded to the Red Sox on January 3, 1923.

Also admittedly the makers of this set were not too current with team designations in some cases, for example Rube Marquard is shown with the Dodgers, a team he last played for in 1920, and Lee Meadows is shown with the Cardinals, a team he last played for in 1919!

In conclusion the 1922 date utilized by both PSA and SGC is incorrect, as this set should be identified as 1923 instead, with the first series early in 1923, and the second series likely sometime later in 1923.

Brian (I was inspired to post this due the latest postings of this awesome thread on the Memorabilia side of the Net54 block...check it out, and the whole thread is worthwhile too: http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...=141145&page=4)

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by Leon

I don't have anything to necessarily add but I do like the W503s...

I was contacted by PM by a member who pointed out that the player that Rube Marquard was traded for in the 1920 (Dec. 15th) trade that sent him from the Dodgers (the team identified on his W503 card) to the Reds was none other than Dutch Ruether, card # 56.

Thanks John

Brian

[brianp-beme]

Here is one of my favorite W503's. Anyone familiar of where this shot was taken? Check out that unforgiving wall!

Brian

[LincolnVT]

Looks like some jail...lol. I love how dirty he is in this card and how he has what looks like his glove just stuffed in his back pocket. Great looking card.

[bocca001]

Here is O'Connell.

[brianp-beme]

I waited an appropriate amount of time (about a week) to boost this thread back into the spotlight...here's Pistol Pete Alexander.

Brian (I believe I am mixing up stars from different sports)

[HRBAKER]

[brianp-beme]

Always loved the Frisch and Sisler...such crisp, cool looking batting action shots!

Brian

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

Here is one of my favorite W503's. Anyone familiar of where this shot was taken? Check out that unforgiving wall!

Brian

Just a guess, but the outfield wall, now covered in ivy, at Wrigley Field.

[glchen]

Here's my contribution.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by glchen

Here's my contribution.

Wonderful card, Gary. It is definitely not hand cut as the label says.
Since they don't know that I am not so sure they know what an alteration is either.

[brianp-beme]

Great card. Back around the turn of the century a Ruth with tape on the top border sold on Ebay for $100 just before I started noticing a seller's listings. A few months later the same came back on ebay from another seller and sold for around $150. I have always regretted not going after it.

It looks like the alteration is the old school pen marking to 'fill-in' the crease.

Brian

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by Leon

Wonderful card, Gary. It is definitely not hand cut as the label says.
Since they don't know that I am not so sure they know what an alteration is either.

It's just their "opinion" Leon.

[Exhibitman]

Damnit, Brian, now I have to get some of these!

[ValKehl]

Like Leon with his E90-1 Cy Young card, I won't pass up an opportunity to show this one again. If anyone has a WaJo in nicer condition, I'd love to see it.

[ullmandds]

i have not seen most of these poses...rare issue!!!!

thanks everyone for sharing!

[GasHouseGang]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

i have not seen most of these poses...rare issue!!!!

thanks everyone for sharing!

I was thinking the same thing. These are not poses you see often, and I really like them!

[glchen]

Originally Posted by Leon

Wonderful card, Gary. It is definitely not hand cut as the label says.
Since they don't know that I am not so sure they know what an alteration is either.

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

Great card. Back around the turn of the century a Ruth with tape on the top border sold on Ebay for $100 just before I started noticing a seller's listings. A few months later I came back on ebay and sold for around $150. I have always regretted not going after it.

It looks like the alteration is the old school pen marking to 'fill-in' the crease.

Brian

Thanks! Yep, the alteration is due to the recoloring of the crease. Still, I was waiting for this card to show up for sale for YEARS, and was very happy that I was able to add it to my collection even in this condition.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Damnit, Brian, now I have to get some of these!

Don't mean to pile on, but...

Brian (as Stengel snickers softly while he swings)