Missing Card Question

[Bo]

When I was 10 years old and buying packs of 1959 Topps I kept looking for 2 players - Ted Williams (superstar) and Vinegar Bend Mizell (I liked his name). Of course I never found them.

When I got older I found out about the Fleer contract that necessitated Ted's exclusion, but what about Mizell? Why no '59 card? He was certainly active.

Most times when players aren't on cards it's because

• it's their last year and Topps thought they'd retire

• it's their rookie year and Topps didn't think they'd make the team

• there's a contract conflict (T Williams)

• they're a superstar and can't be bothered (Stan Musial)

• they have a beef with the card maker (Honus Wagner)

Why are players like Wilmer Mizell, who don't fit into any of those categories, and who could have probably used the small amount of money Topps paid, not in the 1959 set? I'm sure there must be others, as well. I've never sat down and compared my complete set with the complete '59 roster of major league players.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Welcome Bo... Here is a link that discusses your Mizell question...he signed with Fleer, but never had a card produced by them, just a 61 Post card.

https://law.marquette.edu/facultyblo...ard-contracts/

[ALR-bishop]

Thanks for the link. Some folks think a Topps lawsuit halted the 63 Fleer set, but I have never found one. More likely a second series was halted by poor sales from not being able to sign enough players and trying to sell cards with cookies, since some players in the 63 Fleer set did have Topps contracts which were exclusive as to marketing with gum or confections. Leaf had tried earlier, in 1960, with a marble.

[Bo]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

Welcome Bo... Here is a link that discusses your Mizell question...he signed with Fleer, but never had a card produced by them, just a 61 Post card.

https://law.marquette.edu/facultyblo...ard-contracts/

Thanks for the answer. I'd always ignored Wills' absence on a '59 card since he didn't even play for the Dodgers until part way through the season.

And I'd never seen anywhere else that Mizell had signed with Fleer. Why would he do that? He was on the '57 and '58 cards and then nothing other than the Post cereal card. Why would you sign a contract with a company that wasn't going to print a card? And if he signed a contract with Fleer, how could Post issue his card?

Is there a link anywhere that lists players (by year) not on Topps cards?

Somehow my youthful mind drew the connection between Ted Williams not being on a 'regular' baseball card in 1959 and his set on Fleer. I bought about 30 or so of the Williams packs when I was a kid and was not impressed. When he and Mizell weren't on any 1960 cards either from Topps or Fleer I gave up the hobby.

[ALR-bishop]

Several players appear in both the Fleer and Topps sets. Topps contacts were not exclusive except as to distribution with gum and candy, hence Post with cereal, or Fleer with cookies or Leaf with marbles could distribute players under contract with Topps, if they could sign them.

As I mentioned above, Fleer had very poor sales on it's first ( and ultimately only) series in 1963. Topps had a good product that year, and the market ( little boys) was primed for and apparently favored gum over cookies.

Mizell and others were likely signed with the original Fleer plan that there would be a second series, or even more. Because of poor sales, there never was.

There are several reported and on line FTC cases in which many of the Topps/Fleer factoids are presented in various complaints filed by Fleer against Topps

[savedfrommyspokes]

Al, since Mizell's last Topps card was in 58, it would seem that he (like Ted W), signed sometime in 58 with Fleer. Why do you think would Mizell would sign 3-4 years ahead of a supposed card issue coming out? Clearly Ted had his own set in 59 so the time of him signing with Fleer makes sense, but not with Mizell. Do you think Fleer may have misled MIzell as to when they would produce a set with him in it?

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by Bo

Thanks for the answer. I'd always ignored Wills' absence on a '59 card since he didn't even play for the Dodgers until part way through the season.

And I'd never seen anywhere else that Mizell had signed with Fleer. Why would he do that? He was on the '57 and '58 cards and then nothing other than the Post cereal card. Why would you sign a contract with a company that wasn't going to print a card? And if he signed a contract with Fleer, how could Post issue his card?

Is there a link anywhere that lists players (by year) not on Topps cards?

Somehow my youthful mind drew the connection between Ted Williams not being on a 'regular' baseball card in 1959 and his set on Fleer. I bought about 30 or so of the Williams packs when I was a kid and was not impressed. When he and Mizell weren't on any 1960 cards either from Topps or Fleer I gave up the hobby.

Your welcome Bo...for me, I am still trying to understand why Topps did not make a Yankees team card in 68???

[ALR-bishop]

Some players signed with both Topps and Fleer. The Topps contracts were only exclusive as to packaging with gum and candy. Fleer prior to 1963 had been trying to sign players to contracts to do some sort of set. I do not know if Fleer would have sought an exclusive arrangement with Mizell as it did for a time with Williams and Wills. It would seem unlikely, but maybe. Maybe Mizell sought extra money from Topps for a renewal and they refused. Who knows. I am just speculating.

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Several players appear in both the Fleer and Topps sets. Topps contacts were not exclusive except as to distribution with gum and candy, hence Post with cereal, or Fleer with cookies or Leaf with marbles could distribute players under contract with Topps, if they could sign them.

As I mentioned above, Fleer had very poor sales on it's first ( and ultimately only) series in 1963. Topps had a good product that year, and the market ( little boys) was primed for and apparently favored gum over cookies.

Mizell and others were likely signed with the original Fleer plan that there would be a second series, or even more. Because of poor sales, there never was.

There are several reported and on line FTC cases in which many of the Topps/Fleer factoids are presented in various complaints filed by Fleer against Topps

Al,

Is "FTC" the Federal Trade Commission?

[ALR-bishop]

Yes. When I first started looking into whether Topps blocked the further production of Fleer's 1963 set, I looked for court cases but found none. But I did find several FTC complaints filed against Topps by Fleer. Some had interesting production figures for certain years for Topps and Fleer. It is my belief poor sales due to inability to package their cards with gum rather than Topps legal moves shut down their 1963 effort . I do think their original plans were to issue further series and that they did have other players under contract to do so. The 59 set could be distributed with gum because Williams was exclusive to Fleer that year, but in 1963 several of Fleer's cards involved players also under contract to Topps, whose contracts were exclusive to distribution of such player cards with gum or candy.

[IMG][/IMG]

[Jeff Alcorn]

Hi Guys,

Missing cards has been an area that I have always been intersted in. The Maury Wills story has long been known in the hobby- about his anger at Topps for not signing him in training camp because they did not think he was much of a prospect and his subsequent refusal to sign with Topps until 1967. However, there are other players that have no cards or are missing years. Off the top of my head-

Marshall Bridges - no cards
Tony Horton - no cards
Diomedes Olivo - no cards
Eddie Kasko - missing in 65 & 66
Bob Lillis - missing in 65, 66, 67
Al Worthington - missing in 69
Doug Clemens - missing his whole career except 67
Arnold Earley - same as Clemens, nothing until 67
Rusty Staub - had a personal services contract with the Mets from 72-74
Jim Gilliam - missing in 65 & 66
Ron Brand - missing in 67
Julio Gotay - missing after 68
Sandy Valdespino - missing after 68
Ron Kline - missing in 70
Juan Pizarro - missing in 70
Jim Grant -missing in 70
Reggie Jackson - missing in 67 & 68
Al Downing - missing in 77
Jim Bouton - missing in 69 & 70
Steve Bailey - no cards
Clyde Wright - missing in 67 & 68
Rickey Clark - missing until 70
Jerry Grote - missing in 77 since he had threatened retirement - there is a prototype in existence, though.

The list could go on & on. In listing missing players, I tried to use only those that were established Major Leaguers or that had played a significant number of games the year before. If I got out the Baseball Encyclopedia I could probably list 100 more that should have been in sets but were not, and these are just the mid-1960s until the mid-1970s. If it had been me, I would print every player, coach, and manager for every season, and with every team they were with, however, only with current photos - not with old photos on the wrong team.

However, since Topps never asked me as a kid back then it is still just a wish of mine that these cards had existed to collect. I am sure that the minute I post this I will think of some more.

Jeff

[ALR-bishop]

Great list Jeff. Starting in the later 60s my understanding is that individual contracts gave way to Marvin Miller and the Players Association contract. I wonder if being missing could in some cases have been a matter of individual preference and in others just Topps miscues.

[Rich Klein]

There are plenty more: Here are a couple I remember

Chris Short has no cards until 1967

Rich Reichardt missed cards in 1972 and 73

Bouton is an interesting case as no one knew he would make the Pilots in 69 and then was a middle reliever for the Astros going into 1970. Belileve it or not, Ball 4 had nothng to do with his not having a card to end his career.

Rich

[Bob Lemke]

I've got a nice image of Marshall Bridges and some nice later Bouton photos (all original Topps shots) that should eventually find their way onto my custom Topps-style cards.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Since it seems that Topps goal each issue (year) was to include and preview players on each team for the upcoming season (whenever possible), it is interesting that some years players were posthumously included in a new set. Some that come to mind are:
1964-Ken Hubbs
1964-Jim Umbricht
1973-Roberto Clemente
1975-Don Wilson
1977-Mike Miley
1977-Danny Frisella
1980-Thurman Munson (Yankee team card)

Several of these players passed away either in Dec or Jan (the year of their last card), so it was likely too late to pull the card as the issue was well into the production stages

[brewing]

I believe these missing cards are one portion that could make Topps Archives releases hot items.

The 1953 and 1954 Archives produced during the junk wax era are worth little today. Lacking the funds for the actual sets, i treasure my 1952, 53, and 54 reprints/Archives. I feel they really missed the mark on the "missing cards" in those sets. Black and white photos for the 1953's look horrible.

They could correct those and other errors in a future Archives release.

My idea is for a 1955 release along with some of the missing cards done properly (era correct photos, the card should look like it belonged in the set), and they could include proper solo rookie cards. A 1967 Tom Seaver should look like other solo releases from that set, not the bastardized version they have put out in previous Archives sets. The missing cards could be inserts along with numbered autographed rarities. The high numbered 1955 cards could be short prints.

There are several bloggers that make great versions of missing cards. Bob Lemke as he previously mentioned (also sells copies of his creations, thanks to him I own a 1967 Koufax). The blogs "Cards That Never Were" and "Uncle Doc's Closet" make incredible versions of missing cards.

[Rich Klein]

Back when I was at Beckett (and we would do that every few years or so) s to do pictures of cards that never were.

I think one of the weirdest was the lack of a 1993 George Howard Brett Donruss card. 1982 Ryne Sandberg should have been made as well.

Plenty more where those came from

Rich

[ALR-bishop]

This one appeared on an early checklist on card 44, the Washington team card but appears blank on latter checklists in the set. Compliments of Mr Lemke. One of my favorite cards that never were:

[cardinalcollector]

That's a great card Al, my favorite Lemke card is the 1956 Topps Charlie Peete.
In fact, I'm going to make it my avatar!

[Bob Lemke]

Thanks for the mentions of my customs. Here's my latest. As an update, I'm working on a 1966-style IN MEMORIAM version.

Al, I just found a new photo of Bouchee that I'm considering using for a remake of my '58. I've never been completely happy with the 1960 Topps photo I used.

65 wantz f.jpg

As best I remember Topps only created one "In Memoriam" card for a player. That was 1964 card #550, Ken Hubbs, remembering the Cubs second baseman who was killed in a plane crash on Feb. 15 that year.

They could have created a similar card the following year.

Dick Wantz was a California boy whom the Los Angeles Angels signed to a bonus contract out of a 1961 tryout camp in Southern California.

At the time the Angels were looking to develop their farm system in the same season that they debuted in the American League. In '61 the Angels had only two minor league teams, Dallas-Ft. Worth in the Class AAA American Association, and Statesville in the Class D Western Carolina League.

Wantz, at age 21, was assigned to Statesville. As the Angels expanded their farm system into higher classifications, Wantz advanced a step or two every season, despite the fact that he never had a winning season. He was 20-33 with a 4.29 ERA between 1961-64.

He was a lanky right-hander with a propensity for wildness. In 1962 he led the Midwest League with 16 hit batsmen. But he also could throw heat. In 1963 at Tri-City he recorded 164 strikeouts in 137 innings. Since the Northwest League didn't keep strikeout records, I don't know if that was league-best or not.

Wantz pitched in the Arizona Instructional League in the winter of 1964-65, with a 2-1 record. On the basis of a strong spring training, he made the major league team for 1965.

Wantz pitched only a single inning in the big leagues. In the top of the eighth inning of the season opener, with the Cleveland Indians ahead 5-0, Wantz was brought in to relieve Don Lee. While he struck out two of the six batters he faced, he gave up two doubles and a single for two earned runs.

A month later he was dead.

Wantz had been suffering from severe headaches for some time. When the Angels visited Detroit at the end of the month, Wantz was hospitalized there for a week before returning to Southern California where he was operated on at Daniel Freeman Hospital in Inglewood on May 12 in an effort to remove a cancerous brain tumor. He never regained consciousness and died the next day.

We'll never know at this late date why Topps chose not to issue an In Memoriam card for Wantz. They certainly had a usable photo.

The picture I used on my Dick Wantz custom card is courtesy of Keith Olbermann, who acquired it from the Topps archives. It's a good thing Olbermann recognized the importance of the image because I haven't found any other decent color photos of Wantz. Also courtesy of Olbermann are Wantz's strikeout numbers from 1961, 1963 and 1964 Tri-City. In that era, the leagues didn't promulgate certain stats for pitchers. Olbermann maintains an extensive baseball library and was able to get the K numbers from appropriate edition of the Baseball Guide.

In making a 1965-style Dick Wantz card, I chose to go with the regular format. Given the timeline of Wantz's MLB appearance and his death. It's just as easy to presume that Topps might have created an In Memoriam card for its high-number series.

It would be easy enough for me to do an In Memoriam version, and I probably will in the near future. For now, I'm very happy with how my first attempt at a 1965-style custom card came out.

65 wantz b.jpg

[ALR-bishop]

Looking forward to seeing the new Bouchee card, Bob

And I like the Wantz card too. Instead of a 1966 Memorial card you could just do what Topps did with Hubbs that year and put Wants on a card with Dick Ellsworth's name .

Oh, and I think you should bill Randy a monthly license fee for the use of Peete as his avatar

[cardinalcollector]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Looking forward to seeing the new Bouchee card, Bob

And I like the Wantz card too. Instead of a 1966 Memorial card you could just do what Topps did with Hubbs that year and put Wants on a card with Dick Ellsworth's name .

Oh, and I think you should bill Randy a monthly license fee for the use of Peete as his avatar

Bob should pay me for advertising his great work.