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  #1  
Old 08-31-2018, 07:44 AM
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Default Harsh SGC grades

I was looking through the PWCC auction that posted last night on eBay, and noticed several of the new SGC labels. Each one seemed to be significantly undergraded. A few posted below. Practically every one was tagged with an HE or PQ, which I used to make fun of, but I can't fault PWCC on these. How can that US Caramel Ruth be a 4.5? I realize you can't tell everything from a picture, but you can tell enough. I was considering sending some 19th century PSA stuff to crossover to SGC, but there's no way now.



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Old 08-31-2018, 08:09 AM
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a) there's no back scans; b) you can't see minor wrinkling from a scan.
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  #3  
Old 08-31-2018, 08:18 AM
TheRocket9 TheRocket9 is offline
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Must be a surface wrinkle somewhere.
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Old 08-31-2018, 08:20 AM
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Brent says the upper corners of the Ruth have surface wear. Still, a hell of a card.
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Old 08-31-2018, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calvindog View Post
a) there's no back scans; b) you can't see minor wrinkling from a scan.
The auctions have back scans and they look fine. PWCC usually discloses hard to see imperfections, particularly on high-end cards like this.
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  #6  
Old 08-31-2018, 09:34 AM
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I've always said SGC grades cards harshly but they'd be the company I would choose to send my cards to.
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  #7  
Old 08-31-2018, 09:54 AM
iowadoc77 iowadoc77 is offline
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The E95 Cobb is really cool. Nice big borders on that one!
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  #8  
Old 08-31-2018, 10:12 AM
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We see cards that look over and under-graded by all the TPG's
but it's funny you started this thread about the harsh grades.
When I saw this Tenney I was thinking how did it get a 7
with those corners especially the top left.
Tenney.jpgTenney Back.jpg
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  #9  
Old 08-31-2018, 10:18 AM
Throttlesteer Throttlesteer is offline
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The top right and bottom left corners on the Ruth. It also seems to have some surface wear and possibly a small wrinkle on the bottom right, maybe 1/10 of the way up. Honestly, the only one that jumps out at me is the E95 Cobb. But, as pointed out, there may be surface wrinkles not obvious in the scan. The WaJo might actually be overgraded, given the corner wear and toning spots.
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  #10  
Old 08-31-2018, 10:21 AM
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The upper right hand corner of the Ruth is missing the top layer of the card. The Cobb has wear on all 4 corners and is missing part of the top left corner. The Johnson has some minor wear on all 4 corners. I have had cards nicer than those receive those grades or lower.
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  #11  
Old 08-31-2018, 01:25 PM
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every card ever submitted has been undergraded, according to the submitter.

every card being offered for sale is undergraded, according to the seller.

Every card being offered for sale is overgraded, according to the buyer.
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Last edited by RedsFan1941; 08-31-2018 at 01:27 PM.
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  #12  
Old 08-31-2018, 01:27 PM
NotVader NotVader is offline
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Wow, what a beautiful card!

US CARAMELS are classic

SGC seems tough to predict while PSA is harder overall from what I've gathered.


Near The Gulf of Mexico,

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  #13  
Old 08-31-2018, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rats60 View Post
The upper right hand corner of the Ruth is missing the top layer of the card. The Cobb has wear on all 4 corners and is missing part of the top left corner. The Johnson has some minor wear on all 4 corners. I have had cards nicer than those receive those grades or lower.
Man, if you were a grader nothing except a 2018 card out of a pack would ever get a 9 or even an 8. Brutal assessment lol.
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  #14  
Old 08-31-2018, 02:36 PM
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Man, I didn't like this whole sticker thing at first, but now I like it.
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  #15  
Old 08-31-2018, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Man, if you were a grader nothing except a 2018 card out of a pack would ever get a 9 or even an 8. Brutal assessment lol.
No, I just don't like pieces of the card missing. Cards getting above 6.5 should look like this

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  #16  
Old 08-31-2018, 10:49 PM
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I’m loving the new SGC flips. And the SGC holders frame cards so beautifully.
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  #17  
Old 09-02-2018, 09:00 PM
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Another example of SGC harsh grading.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Topps-...r&LH_Auction=1
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  #18  
Old 09-02-2018, 09:41 PM
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here’s the thing: these examples of “harsh” grading likely are actually examples of why TPG’s can save a collector from overpaying for an overgraded card. does anyone really think that SGC or PSA haphazardly slaps a 4 on a card that appears to be a 7 or 8? i see a card like that and i think there’s obviously a reason the card isn’t a 7or 8 and I just don’t or can’t see it in a scan. I couldn’t care less about the subtle difference between a 5 and 6. but when i see something like the examples in this thread, I’m happy there is professional grading.
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Old 09-02-2018, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irv View Post
Another example of SGC harsh grading.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Topps-...r&LH_Auction=1
While I dont think it would look out of place in a "5" holder. with all the border damage (possibly rubber band?) a 4 isn't a travesty of justice.
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  #20  
Old 09-03-2018, 01:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irv View Post
Another example of SGC harsh grading.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Topps-...r&LH_Auction=1
There appears to be touches of damage to all three corners and also small damaged spots along the right hand border especailly.

I personally find that PSA is the easiest of the three big ones, and beckett on averages percentage wise I have taken on older cards is the harshest of the three with SGC closer to Beckett in harsher grading than it is to PSA.

If I was going to grade a card to sell, I would likely send it to PSA thinking I am more likely to get a better grade, easier to sell and get more money. If it was a card I want to keep, I would likely send it to one of the other two as I think they are closer to how I would grade if I had a good pair of eyes still.
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  #21  
Old 09-03-2018, 09:40 AM
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My opinion and experience are the opposite of yours. I only deal with post war Regular and a lot of regional and food oddball issues. PSA is number 1 for me, Sgc a close second. BVG is horrible and inconsistent with corner assessment on post war vintage they are usually overgraded by 1/2 to 1 full grade in comparison to the other 2 companies. A small percentage are accurately graded. sgc gives too many numerical grades to miscut cards that are out of square and miscut on the obverse. They also are not great with postwar hand cut issues- too lenient with missing borders and surface issues- my experience with postwar only


“I personally find that PSA is the easiest of the three big ones, and beckett on averages percentage wise I have taken on older cards is the harshest of the three with SGC closer to Beckett in harsher grading than it is to PSA.

If I was going to grade a card to sell, I would likely send it to PSA thinking I am more likely to get a better grade, easier to sell and get more money. If it was a card I want to keep, I would likely send it to one of the other two as I think they are closer to how I would grade if I had a good pair of eyes still.”
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  #22  
Old 09-03-2018, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedsFan1941 View Post
here’s the thing: these examples of “harsh” grading likely are actually examples of why TPG’s can save a collector from overpaying for an overgraded card. does anyone really think that SGC or PSA haphazardly slaps a 4 on a card that appears to be a 7 or 8? i see a card like that and i think there’s obviously a reason the card isn’t a 7or 8 and I just don’t or can’t see it in a scan. I couldn’t care less about the subtle difference between a 5 and 6. but when i see something like the examples in this thread, I’m happy there is professional grading.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards View Post
While I dont think it would look out of place in a "5" holder. with all the border damage (possibly rubber band?) a 4 isn't a travesty of justice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sportscomicfantasy View Post
There appears to be touches of damage to all three corners and also small damaged spots along the right hand border especailly.

I personally find that PSA is the easiest of the three big ones, and beckett on averages percentage wise I have taken on older cards is the harshest of the three with SGC closer to Beckett in harsher grading than it is to PSA.

If I was going to grade a card to sell, I would likely send it to PSA thinking I am more likely to get a better grade, easier to sell and get more money. If it was a card I want to keep, I would likely send it to one of the other two as I think they are closer to how I would grade if I had a good pair of eyes still.
Rather than using the word "Harsh", maybe "tough" as in SGC grades tough would be a better choice of words.

Comparing the card I posted to others I have seen, I do still personally think the card has been graded tough, but as we all know, scans/pics don't always tell the whole story.

Maybe reading PWCC's assessment of the card is influencing my opinion but I have seen far worse looking cards getting the same grade or higher.

Does anyone know, since SGC came out with these new flips, have they also decided to grade tougher?

A stunner for the grade assigned. Shows like a NRMT card in almost every way with white borders and great centering for the issue. Easily the best '4' we've seen in our history. Very faint wear exists at the extreme corner tips but otherwise this card appears truly world class. Appears free of the wrinkles or creases that might explain the harsh technical assessment. As it sits this card is an outright steal for the technical grade

Last edited by irv; 09-03-2018 at 10:51 AM.
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  #23  
Old 09-03-2018, 10:43 AM
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Sgc has decided that "centering all of a sudden counts" yet doesnt use qualifiers, resulting in the appearance of stricter grades. I've always like sgc because I could judge the card centering for myself, and they could assess the other aspects. Recently, I was told a psa 7 OC would cross to an SGC 30! Normally this might be a 7 or a 6 at worst.
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  #24  
Old 09-05-2018, 03:26 PM
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There are reasons they aren't higher grade than they are. As I think has been said, some spider wrinkling or things that can barely be seen. And there are, many times, things that can be seen in hand but not on a screen which lower a grade. Until I inspect them in hand I would say they aren't that far off. Great looking cards.

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Originally Posted by Shankweather View Post
I was looking through the PWCC auction that posted last night on eBay, and noticed several of the new SGC labels. Each one seemed to be significantly undergraded. A few posted below. Practically every one was tagged with an HE or PQ, which I used to make fun of, but I can't fault PWCC on these. How can that US Caramel Ruth be a 4.5? I realize you can't tell everything from a picture, but you can tell enough. I was considering sending some 19th century PSA stuff to crossover to SGC, but there's no way now.



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  #25  
Old 09-05-2018, 05:18 PM
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Without seeing the backs of some of these cards, the point is very much lost.

Last edited by luciobar1980; 09-05-2018 at 05:18 PM.
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