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#1
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Posted By: Hal Lewis
I think you have to consider the NUMBER of overall victories AND the career winning percentage in order to get a TRUE idea of how good a pitcher was. They must have proved themselves over a LONG period of time, not just a short stint. |
#2
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Posted By: warshawlaw
Add in Spahn and Alexander to round it out. |
#3
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Posted By: Anson
That's certainly one way to look at it. However, Many pitchers end up on crappy teams with no run support. Just as an example, look at Clemens record early in the year. |
#4
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Posted By: leon
I don't think you can ever talk about the greatest pitchers of all time without mentioning the Big Train Walter Johnson. 110 career shutouts, led the league 12 years in strikeouts, 11 times had an ERA under 2.00..... and played on a crappy team ....I think he lost about half his games with his team giving him 2 or less runs to work with.....He has to be almost at the top, imo...regards |
#5
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Posted By: Tom Boblitt
Nolan Ryan fan, I'd enter him in based on the 'on the crappy teams' clause.....I know he only won about 30-40 games more than he lost but his supporting casts were often less than the best........I'm sure that nomination will upset some folks, but had he been on better teams in the 1970's and 80's, he'd have 400 wins I think......... |
#6
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Posted By: Darren J. Duet
The greatest pitcher ever? Walter Johnson. |
#7
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Posted By: Hal Lewis
Speaking of Nolan Ryan and Walter Johnson really makes you appreciate how great CLEMENS is... |
#8
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Posted By: Chad
And this is on no particular order: |
#9
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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
HAL |
#10
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Posted By: john/z28jd
edited because my scan was putting page off-center |
#11
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Posted By: Daniel Bretta
Without a doubt Walter Johnson is the greatest pitcher who ever lived. |
#12
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Posted By: Kieran
I was up at the HOF a few weeks back and actually had this same discussion with a few of the old boys. We talked about ranking hitters and of course it became impossible - the talk of steroids and the advances in nutrition and working out came up. I think they are still yelling at each over how is better Bonds or Ruth. |
#13
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Posted By: Chad
I left off Lefty Grove! I need coffee. Fast. |
#14
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Posted By: dennis
maybe feller is out spoken on his talent,because he gets no credit...no one has yet to mention his name and i happen to believe all who post here are quite intelligent in baseball history. feller won 266 games and missed almost 4 years due to ww2. between 1939 & 1948 his w-l totals were 24-9,27-11,25-13,5-3 in 9 games in'45,26-15 & 20-11....he struck out 348 in 1946...he did this when guys tried not to strike out.if you add 80 victories for the years he missed he could have won 350 games.i'm not saying he was the best pitcher ever but he should be in everyone top 10. mine are in progression young matty,alexander,johnson,grove,feller,spahn,gibson, randy jonson and clemens |
#15
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Posted By: Chris McAlister
Without a doubt, Walter Johnson. |
#16
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Posted By: Hal Lewis
Feller was great... but so was Koufax for a short time. |
#17
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Posted By: Chad
He was getting major league hitters out when he was 87 years old and had to attach his arm to his body with silly putty and surgeon's thread. And he was a good quote! |
#18
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Posted By: Tom L.
Bob Gibson |
#19
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Posted By: Hal Lewis
Various Negro League and Cuban web sites credit Satchel Paige with having 1,500+ career wins and over 300 shoutouts!!! |
#20
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Posted By: Hal Lewis
AL SPALDING won 80% of his games and had 250 career wins!!! |
#21
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Posted By: identify7
Certainly Games won and winning percentage are good yardsticks for pitching performance. But they rely a bit on the team that is behind you. that is a part of the reason that Johnson and Ryan stand out. |
#22
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Posted By: Greg Ecklund
I'd choose Johnson as the greatest ever, with Grove and Alexander right behind. Johnson's consistent dominance on a team that was never great until the end of his career puts him over the top. If Johnson had pitched for the teams Mathewson got to pitch for, there would be no question as to who the greatest pitcher ever was. |
#23
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Posted By: Steve
Sidd Finch |
#24
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Posted By: Kieran
In regards to Paige, if he played his full career in the Big League then there is no doubt in my mind he woul dbe regarded as the greatest pitcher ever. |
#25
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Posted By: jay behrens
I forget the exact number, but Johson holds the record for most 1-0 losses in a career. It's somehting over 50. As with his shutouts, no other pitcher is close. |
#26
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Posted By: Hal Lewis
Still amazes me that one player won 94 games... |
#27
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Posted By: Adam J. Moraine
The Greatest Pitcher Ever?- MATTY |
#28
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Posted By: Peter_Spaeth
Johnson, Mathewson, Alexander, Koufax, Clemens. My next five would be Young, Grove, Feller, Spahn, Maddux. |
#29
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Posted By: identify7
Hal: After two years of walking more batters than he struck out, Boston dumped Ruth off to NY. When he showed no signs of improvement they tried him in the field, fortunately that worked out for him. A few years later, the same thing worked for O'Doul. |
#30
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Posted By: JimB
I was a big fan of Nolan Ryan's. But he did have a control problem. I wouldn't put him in my top 10. Walter Johnson gets the top spot in my book. |
#31
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Posted By: warshawlaw
O'Doul had a dead arm and went the minors after being released by the Yankees and Red Sox. He resuscitated his career there then went back up with the Giants in 1928. |
#32
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Posted By: Shannon
My top five in no particular order Johnson,Clemens,Mathewson,Alexander and Feller who is probably #5, its just too bad the war robbed him of 4 of his prime years with 3 no hitters and a record 12 one hitters its tuff to leave him off. |
#33
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Posted By: Hal Lewis
Look at 1952 for Bob Feller: |
#34
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Posted By: Glenn
1. Clemens |
#35
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Posted By: Kieran
Clemens best ever? |
#36
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Posted By: identify7
Well yes Warshawlaw, the facts appear to differ from my statements. |
#37
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Posted By: Peter_Spaeth
Feller was on the downside of his career by 52, Hal. Didn't he start in 37? |
#38
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Posted By: Hal Lewis
Peter: |
#39
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Posted By: Hal Lewis
But I will agree that if Feller had STAYED in the states and pitched in 1942, 1943, 1944 and all of 1945... |
#40
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Posted By: cn
I may be biased being a diehard Mets fan but 100 more wins than losses on lousy hitting teams. Tom Terrific The Franchise is my choice. With all the good pitchers the Mets have had Seaver,Koosman,Ryan,Cone,Gooden,Martinez etc. still no one has pitched a no hitter in a Mets uniform. |
#41
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Posted By: T206Collector
Has to be the most overrated pitcher of all time, if not player of all time. Strikeouts and no-hitters are fascist. Great pitchers win despite adversity, and Ryan nearly ended up being the only pitcher to win over 300 games, but lose more times than he won. He also never won a Cy Young Award. Ever. Not even one. Plus he walked a billion people, which is why his no-hitters were never perfect games. Just about every pitcher listed on this link so far is tons better than Ryan. For me it starts with Grove, Matty and Johnson. The other two in the top five are debatable, but I'd probably wind up with Koufax and Gibson. Maybe Paige. But tell Ryan to get in the back of the line and take his 4,000+ walks with him. |
#42
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Posted By: Glenn
Hear, hear! I haven't done a complete list, but I suspect I'd have Ryan about 25th. (Not sure that strikeouts and no-hitters are fascist though.) |
#43
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Posted By: dennis
feller turned 34 in '52 and was injury free. back then 34 was old, players(even great ones see hornsby & foxx)were usually on the down side in their early 30's. |
#44
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Posted By: robert a
I know Cy Young doesn't really need to be defended, but lets give him a little more consideration for top five pitchers ever. |
#45
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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
Hard to compare pitchers across generations. One way is to answer this question: which pitcher would you want to pitch Game 7 of the World Series on two days rest? That's an easy one: Koufax. Pitched a 4 hit, complete game shutout in Game 5 against the Twins in Game 5; comes back on two days rest and pitches even better: a 3 hit, complete game shutout to clinch the Series. |
#46
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Posted By: john/z28jd
Id want Mathewson to pitch if i had one game with everything on the line but i still rate him 3rd.I think his 3 shutouts in one W.S. cemented that choice |
#47
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Posted By: Anson
If this were top SEASON ever by a pitcher, add Jack Chesbro to the list. I believe it was 1904 when he devistated the league. He was 41-12 with a 1.82 ERA and 239 Ks. That's plain disgusting. |
#48
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Posted By: Julie
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#49
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Posted By: Rob
But I guess you can't argue with numbers of the other guys. Modern day would have to be Clemens. I haven't seen stats of the pre-war guys * ducks a chucked head of lettuce * so I can't really list them. |
#50
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Posted By: Glenn
Hey, who took my lettuce? |
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