Need Help...Need 1916 Fleischmann Bakery (Bread) Cards. Any info appreciated!

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Posted By: Erick L.

Hi, im new to the site, 22yrs old, collecting most of life and just reached my biggest challenge....

I'm Looking for 1916 fleischmann bakery cards (D381) in ANY condition with or without tabs. I recently inherited some from my great grandfather and have 86 out of the 103 cards in the set. All i have are w/o tabs, so i would like to try and complete a tabless set, but will glady take cards with tabs if i can afford them and/or will make nice trade offers for these cards in any condition. I want them in ANY grade from poor to mint. Fair to VG condition cards would be great.
i need 17 more in total for the set.

I need: Larry Cheney, Tom Clarke (either version), Ty COBB, A. Wilbur Cooper, Joe Gedeon, Robert Harmon, Hugh Jennings, Ed Konetchy, Fred Lauderus (luderus), Otto Miller, Dan Murphy, Art Nehf, Tris SPEAKER, Chas (jeff) Tesreau, Walter Tragresser, Arthur Wilson (also...i have a charles "babe" adams but its ripped so wouldn't mind another to replace filler). (Ferguson variety of cards is fine also)

If anyone has any of these or has an idea of where i could find some please let me know, ANY condition is fine , i would still be interested in intact Poor condition cards...with or w/o tabs.

If anyone else out there sees this message and has some of these with or without tabs in any condition, let me know what you have. I will pay money for them or will trade some of mine which i have duplicates of if you're interested. Thanks....Erick----email me @ yanksrnice09@yahoo.com
Or call/leave message @631-767-4189. I am very interested in trying to complete this set, and i need help, these cards are extremely rare in any shape. Even if you have any information to share about the set in general or where i might find some, feel free to post.

Quick Card Description:
They are balck and white photo cards with blank backs. Disrtibuted by Fleischmann Bakery of NYC. They messure 2 3/4"x 5 1/2" with tab/ messure 2 3/4"x 5 13/16" without tabs. Cards without tabs can be difficult to identify if someones unfamiliar with them. The photos are copywrited by Underwood & Underwood, which it says on most of them. The bottom lists the players name, team, and league.

If anyone can help me at all please contact and/or reply to this....Also if anyone would jsut like to discuss this really rare and attractive issue from a tough year in cards feel free to reply. Id really just likeme of you vintage pre-war card experts that know anything about the set. My greatgrandfather had him his whole life and said he thought he got them from packages of loaves of bread. I also know that these cards are very rare but perhaps some of you might want to elaborate on how rare you think this issue is.

thanks for your help-----Erick Lewin (yanksrnice09@yahoo.com)

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Posted By: Paul

Congratulations on your inheritance. Those cards are extremely hard to find. You may have one of the largest collections in existence. Larry Fritsch may have some that you need. I'm pretty sure he has a Cobb glued onto another piece of paper or cardboard, with the tab I think. He has a website so you can do a google or yahoo search for him. I can't think of anyone else with any for sale. You might find 2 or 3 per year on ebay. Good luck. Even with your enormous hoard, it will take a lot of persistence to complete that set.

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Posted By: Erick L.

Thanks for you're response. I saw Fitsch's selection last week, i had him mail me the list of what he had. I believe he had 3 that i needed ...Cobb (mounted on back), tris speaker, and dan murphy. They wrote on the sheet of paper that all the cards were without coupons i believe. i thought that too, that the conditions seemed pretty high. I havn't seen pictured of the cards, so they could be in that good of shape but i doubt they're quite as good as stated as most seemed to be listed at EX - Ex+. The Cobb i would think should be listed in poor if its mounted on paper or something but he had it listed as EX or Exmt i think and wanted 2000 dollars for it. All of the prices seemed to be far too high and were not even close to any guide i've seen if they're all without tabs. Im going to try and call him and perhaps see if he would maybe want to trade or something, becuase i don't have that much money(2000 for tabless cobb) at the present time. I know this is going to be a really tough challenge for me and i doubt that i will ever have the complete set. Im going to try my best and do my homework on the set, im trying to learn all that i can and will look into the Fritsch ones some more. He also had a Wagner, i beleive for 900 dollars, but it had the bottom of the card cut off past his name i believe, so i would consider that poor condition too. I will look into it and see what happens.
I will also try and post some scans of my cards in 2-3 weeks once i get back to my home, im at college right now. Im sure that some of you out there would want to see the cards that i have.
I hope more of you share some thoughts about the card set and how rare you think they are. This is a great site---thanks

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Posted By: Paul

I thought Fritsch's prices for these cards weren't too bad, except for the Wagner. With the name cut off, the value should go waaay down. And many people have found Fritsch's cards to be overgraded, so you should take that into account. There was a recent thread discussing his grading practices. I think the consensus was that his cards are overgraded, but he has a no-questions-asked return policy, so there's not much risk, just inconvenience.

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Posted By: Erick L.

thanks for the tip. Yeah, im totally not trying to bash Fritsch's cards becuase i havent bought anything from him yet so i don't know. But i think they probably slightly overgraded. If the cards were the actual grades at those prices besides the damaged and cut ones it wouldn't be that bad i guess. I didn't know about his return policy so that's helpful. Ill be more incline to maybe get one from there now.

Everyone.... Keep the discussion going.-Erick

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Posted By: dan mckee

David Bryan on ebay as davidbvintage has a bunch for sale.

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Posted By: hrbaker

Fritsch doesn't have the Danny Murphy anymore and the grade was pretty close!

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Posted By: Erick L.

I was curious did you buy that Dan Murphy card? I'm glad to hear the condition was close. I want to thank everyone for their input so far, the email i have recieved has been tremendous. I had another question about the Ferguson variety of the cards. I know they can be identified by having only one line of identification on the bottom instead of two, i have a couple fergusons i guess because they only have one line of info. does anyone have a scan of a ferguson with the tab? i was curious if it said ferguson bakery on it instead of fleischmann, all of mine are without tabs. Also i noticed that the fergusons that i have , i dont have any fleischamnns of those players. For example i believe its the Red Smith, i have 3 or 4 of and they all have only 1 line of identification and although i only have one Casey Stengle, thats a Ferguson too and i saw one in a lelands auction that was ferguson too, i've never seen any fleischmanns of these players. Did Ferguson exclusively make cards of certain players that Fleischmann did not? I also found it odd that i had a few fergusons because i thought each were regional issues. The fleischmann bakery was located in the NYC area and the Ferguson was suposedly in the Boston area, so i found it this to be weird. Any info appreciated....
Also any other information about the d381 issue will be helpful
thanks--Erick

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Posted By: Anonymous

Yes, I bought the Murphy!

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Posted By: Erick Lewin

Hello again everyone,

I've been reading the threads on this site now for the past wekk or so and i must say this is a great forum, with some very respectable enthusiasts that post hear, it seems like. I noticed that everyone here is pretty close knit and people like to know who they're talking to, so i included my last name this time. I'm still learning more about the really old stuff, im somewhat knowledgable but am really more into it now with my recent Fleischmann Aquisition and the finding of this forum. I also noticed that you guys like to hear the stories behind people's cards, so here's mine: (i love talking about them, the problem is most of my friends aren't into it)

How i got the Fleischmanns:
I would guess that the first time i saw the cards i was between the ages of 8-10, not sure exactly what age. I went to my greatgrandparents house with my parents who were both almost or at 90 years of age at the time, in long island. On my way to their house i remember my father told me that great-grandpa had some old cards and baseball "pictures". When i got there we all just started talking about different things and i saw how my grandparents kept EVERYTHING. They even had a newspaper clipping from when the Titanic sunk.
After a little while i got the courage to ask my greatgrandfather if i could see his baseball cards. He said sure, and got up and walked to the back room where he kept them in a filing cabinet. He opened it up and pulled out a really old cardboard candy box, circa 1910-1916 i would estimate. We walked back to the room with my family and he handed me the box. I opened it up and was amazed. This was when i was just geting into baseball cards but only had new cards, my oldest was probably my 1985 topps McGwire RC at the time.
There was a stack of black and white, oversized cards, that were more like pictures to me with nothing written on the back and no real card set identification, only the underwood & underwood copyright. There were more than 170 of these "pictures" that had been cut on the bottom where a dotted line was. I looked through these and was fascinated by the age of them and the pictures of the players, and also the "old cardboard smell".
However, i noticed that he also had about a handful of the Cracker Jack cards, which i later found out to be 1915 rather than 1914, highlighted by 2 Connie Macks. At first i was more interested in the few Cracker Jacks because i knew what they were and had some idea of the value of them at the time. I had absolutely no idea what the other cards were.

After i looked through them all, my family left and i said thanks and goodbye. I didn't ask for any of the cards because i didn't want to rude.
After that initial visit and viewing of the cards, i was yearning to go back and see them again. Probably about a year or two later i went back with my whole family to visit with them again.
This time i couldn't wait and immediately asked to see the cards. I went and got them with him in the other room and came abck and looked through them. This time i also brought a new card myself to show him, a 1993 Flair Wave of the Future of Jeremy Burnitz! This was in 1993 which would have made me 11 i guess and i thought the Flair set was a really beautiful set and i wanted to show my great grandfather how cards had changed. I showed it to him and told him to keep the Burnitz card and asked if i could have one of his old cards. He was somewhat reluctant, He hesitated slightly but then said i could take one of the Connie Mack cracker jacks, which he had 2 of, and said i could take a couple of the black and white ones that he had doubles of. He also told me that the black and white cards were from bread , and that he got them out of packages of bread as a kid. I think he also mentioned that he cut off the coupons, but i dont remember exactly what he said. He actually said that he thought they were from Butter-Krust Bread, but he might have been mistaken, since butter-krust issued a different set from another year. I was curious if Butter-Krust was a brand of the Fleischmann Bakery though, that im not sure of.
Anyway i walked out of there that day when i was 11 with about 15-19 of the Fleischmanns that he had doubles of. The best one i got was Edd Rousch, who i later saw was a HOFer, along with the Mack cracker jack.
I did research on the set for years before the internet was big as a young kid but never found out what those cards actually were until a few months ago when i got the rest of them and found them online by chance (thanks to Old Cardboard site).
anyway,I went back there a couple more times before he died and looked at his cards. Then he died around when i was about 14-15 years old i think.

After that when i went back to visit my greatgrandmother, who lived up until this past Summer (99 or 100yrs old!), i think i might have saw them once, im not sure. I remember the last time i asked to see the cards i remember walking back to the room with her to get them and she opened the filing cabinet and they weren't there! I was very upset but didn't say anything. she didn't know what had happened to them.
I thought the cards were either lost, stolen by a relative, or thrown away. I never heard about the cards again and didn't actively search to find out what the cards were that i had.

However, my grandfather (not greatgrandfather), said that if he ever found the cards, he'd give them to me since i showed such an interest in them.

Then this past summer my greatgrandma died. About a month and half later, out of the blue, on my first break from college this fall, my dad told me that grandma found grandpas old cards and she'd give them to me. he told me to just drive up there. So, i immediately hopped in my car and drove up there and asked about them. She showed the cards to me and it brought back all the old memories and, now being more educated, i knew about a lot more of the players too and i was really excited. She thought to keep them for a while because she had wanted to look through them as well, but then relented and handed them to me because she didn't know anything about them. I said thanks and left to go home and immediately showed my brothers friend who's into them to and we sorted them all out by the players into stacks of cards i had doubles of etc... and then we started researching them online and i eventually found out what they were on the oldcardboard website under the "D" Bakery issues. I knew it was from around 1915-1916 and clicked on the Fleischmann link and saw a picture of the johnny evers card, and i realized i had that card. As they say, the rest is history and i'm trying to locate the rest of this set.

I apologize for the longevity of this post, but if you read up to here i guess you were interested. I figure at least a couple people might be interested in the story. (on a side not i noticed that i forgot to post in my initial post here that im also missing the TOM GRIFFITH card).

Also, dont think i've forgotten, i will try and post scans of some of my Fleischmanns as soon as im back from college.

Sorry for the length of this post and thanks for everyones help so far, this is a great site
Sincerely-Erick Lewin

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Posted By: jay behrens

Don't apoligize for the long story. Most of wish we could have had that type of experience. It's what this hobby's dreams are made of.

Jay

The difference between genius and insanity is acceptance.

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Posted By: Bill Cornell

I wanted to bump this post up again, as the background of the site now shows D381's of Wagner, Stengel, and our old buddy Fred (S)nodgrass. These were in the Leland's auction back in June.

Bill

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Posted By: Paul

How do I view the background by itself, without these annoying posts in the way?

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Posted By: dstudeba

Right click on the background and select Save Background As...

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Posted By: Erick Lewin

I like the background, and like how you're bringing attention to this rare set. I just want to say that the responses i've gotten on this set have been great. I just purchased and got 4 that i need from Larry Fritsch. The info on him and his practices was very helpful. I'd have to say the grades weren't as bad as some of you were saying. I'd say they were all about one grade too high and pretty pricey, but i don't know where else to get those 4. I'm now currently down to needing 13 different cards(exept for all the diff. variations) and have found someone who i might be able to work out a deal with for a few more of them. I'll keep you posted on my gradual progess.

ALso , i just got home from college, and have been working the past 2 days and have been sick, but i will try to get some posts up this week.

Keep this set discusion going....

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Posted By: Jason Duncan

Erick-

I sold Frisch 4 of them about 2 years ago. I would be interested in knowing which ones you got from him and what you paid. I know most of the time he overgrades about 2-3 grades.

Jason

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Posted By: Erick Lewin

I bought the Arthur Wilson (listed at VG)for $90, Ed Knoetchy (Listed at abt EX)for $190, Fred Lauderus (listed at about EX) for $150, and A.N. "art" Nehf (listed at VG)for $115.

These cards were all without coupons and were about a grade to a grade and a half lower than stated
I think they were too expensive, but it's the only place i knew to get those 4.

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Posted By: Erick Lewin

http://eshare.hpphoto.com/start.asp?JobID={5398B4D5-9AA5-40F1-8C30-02674E9609C4}&IDKey=1212247550


let me know if you all cna view the pics this way, these are the 1st four from my set. If this isn't the right way to post them, or if people can't see them let me know

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Posted By: Erick Lewin

Okay, i tried to post the scans of my first 4 cards and i think i posted the 1st 12. No one has answered me yet , if they can see my cards or not with the way i posted them. please, someone let me know. Does anyone think that i should start a new post with all the scans under a different post title. I think some people might not realize that im posting the scans of my cards and might not be paying attention. This set is really rare and i dont think most people have ever seen most of these cards. So please let me know if you can see the scans.

If everyone can see the link of the first 12 in alphebetical order; i posted:Charles (BABE) Adams (ironically 1st card in set and my one in the worst condition, ripped), Grover C. Alexander, W. Alexander, Frank Allen----Fred Anderson, Dave Bancroft, George Burns, Eddie Burns, Bobby Byrne, R.B. Caldwell

Please let me know if you can see the cards, and if you can see them well.....If you clcik on a group of the 4 cards i think they should enlarge to see them about at their full sizes.

Erick

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Posted By: Glen V

They come up fine for me. Thanks!

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Posted By: Erick Lewin

ALright, i guess people can see them. (I forgot to mention i posted the Jack Barry and Beals Becker cards too i think, in the 2nd group).

I'll try to get up the other scans of my different cards as soon as i can get around to it

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Posted By: Bill Cornell

Erick-

Thanks for providing the D381 scans - keep 'em coming. We'll add this to the Vintage Links page.

Bill

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Posted By: Erick Lewin

Thanks Bill, that would be great. I'm going to try and get some more scans up

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Posted By: Erick Lewin

http://eshare.hpphoto.com/start.asp?JobID={E5EB996D-CB94-48BC-ADE7-8B8896F5EF5A}&IDKey=1508618595

This is almost half of my different player cards from the set. Hope they come up well, i'll hopefully get the rest up soon with my Mathewson, stengle, and Wagner among others

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Posted By: Erick Lewin

By the way, The Chas. Herzog card has a P written in pencil on his sleeve, that shouldn't be there, incase you can't tell

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Posted By: Art Jones

Hi;



I was following this thread and thought I'd post some images of the cards that I currently have. I'll start with a few for now (I have less than a dozen total) and put the rest up when I have time.



Here's the link: D381 images




I recieved these from my grandfather and great-grandfather who were MAJOR fans! While the cards are nice, the highlight of what they left me is several "ledger books" full of newspaper clippings, more cards, game drawings and notes, and memorabilia, they are extremely interesting!


Regards, Art

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Posted By: Erick Lewin

Those are some nice looking cards. Can't wait to see the rest. Hopefully I'll get the rest of mine scanned and posted soon, been a little busy lately. My great grandfather also left me a little collection of newspaper clippings from the same time as the D381s, the clippings are dated in september of 1916. Maybe i'll post some of them eventually, theres a couple nice ones of wagner, cobb and mathewson...

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Posted By: Erick Lewin

Hi everyone,
I just noticed that my scans expired i guess, that i sent. I didn't know that it was going to do that. Sorry i have been so slow to get the rest of my cards up and to notice this problem, i've been busy working this week.
I will see what i can do to correct this problem and get all of my cards posted, hopefully permanantly this time, if i can figure out a way to do it with my scanner.
Please bear with me and be patient, i promise i'll get them up eventually.

Sorry, Erick