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#1
11-03-2011, 10:53 PM
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I conducted myself poorly and I apologize
I want to apologize to Net54 members for exhibiting childish behavior in the thread in which I was attacked by David Atkatz.
The mature thing to do would have been to realize that responding to these attacks by Mr Atkatz would be foolish and would certainly achieve nothing. Eventually, I did realize that I was appearing childish and foolish in reacting to the insults that emanated from David Atkatz in that thread. I should have just chosen to ignore it. I appreciate the supportive posts and supportive e mails that I have gotten in the aftermath of this. Most especially appreciate the words from someone on this board that I and others have the utmost respect for. In closing I just want to state that I mistakenly believed the apology that I received by e mail and I should have just ignored the unprovoked attacks that came after the apology. I overreacted. I was angered by the attack thread, started by Mr Atkatz, which was started after Mr Atkatz had apologized to me and had admitted to me that he had started the initial conflict. I thought it was over after he did that. But he then chose to extend the conflict, in new threads, and I overreacted. I should have taken the high road immediately, ignoring him completely, and I regret not doing that. I will not conduct myself in this manner again.
__________________
Sign up & receive my autograph price list. E mail me,richsprt@aol.com, with your e mail. Sports,entertainment,history. - Here is a link to my online store. Many items for sale. 10% disc. for 54 members. E mail me first. www.bonanza.com/booths/richsports -- "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure."- Clarence Darrow Last edited by RichardSimon; 11-03-2011 at 10:56 PM. 
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#3
11-04-2011, 12:54 AM
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Richard, I don't know you and mean you no disrespect, but may I ask if you will be apologizing for wasting our time with your facetious apology?
__________________
Looking for Toronto baseball items. Please contact me at chris@pacmedia.ca
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#4
11-04-2011, 01:38 AM
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#5
11-04-2011, 02:28 AM
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That is very nice of you to say you are sorry.... David is JUST THE WORST isn't he???
__________________
[I]"When you photograph people in colour you photograph their clothes. But when you photograph people in B&W, you photograph their souls." ~Ted Grant Www.weingartensvintage.com https://www.facebook.com/WeingartensVintage http://www.psacard.com/Articles/Arti...ben-weingarten ALWAYS BUYING BABE RUTH RED SOX TYPE 1 PHOTOGRAPHS--->To add to my collection Last edited by Forever Young; 11-04-2011 at 03:22 AM.
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#6
11-04-2011, 06:00 AM
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Personally, I don't think any apology was needed from Richard, but I respect the fact that he did.
I hate to be redundant, but like I wrote, the original thread was dead; it became a non-issue that was just between David and Richard. Why did David have to revive it? Why? There was no reason to revive it. If I was in Richard's shoes I would have reacted to David's comment, too.
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#7
11-04-2011, 06:02 AM
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We all have our moments but I have to agree with the others who have replied to this. Richard, when you said you were done with that thread earlier, you continued to pile on David while saying you were going to be the grown up in the situation.
Now again, you seem to be doing the same thing while still trying to plead your case for why you were right. I have no disrespect for either of you but if either or both of you really wanted to act like grown ups, you might try calling each other and apologizing to each other and work it out like men instead of battling on a message board. Just a suggestion. I didn't vote in the poll, mainly because there was not an option for two people who had a disagreement to work it out. That would be my vote. I honestly don't mean any disrespect to either of you, it just seems like it is time to step back and think about this. Someone always has to be the bigger person in a disagreement to actually start moving forward. IMO, it's not truly being the bigger person by saying you are going to be the bigger person and then continuing to state your case as to why you are right and the other person is wrong. One of the things I have always enjoyed about this board is there is usually not too much of the typical message board behavior of putting others down,making people feel silly for a difference of opinion, or some of the other childish things you usually see on other boards, here's a vote for us getting back to that. Chris
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#8
11-04-2011, 07:43 AM
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I to don't know either of you and no disrespect also but reading the apology it still almost sounds like your still attacking the guy by using his name over and over. Now the thread is going to start all over again with people siding with you guys again. Be done with it. keith janosky
Last edited by keithsky; 11-04-2011 at 07:43 AM.
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#9
11-04-2011, 07:50 AM
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Chris,
I appreciate your thoughts on the matter but this quote of yours is something I don't understand: "Richard, when you said you were done with that thread earlier, you continued to pile on David while saying you were going to be the grown up in the situation." Chris, you specifically refer to me as piling on David. If you want to consider my apology here to be piling on then you are certainly entitled to your opinion. But the only post I made in that initial long thread after I said I would no longer keep up the arguing was to show a Babe Ruth autograph in quotes, when that question came up on the thread. As to the thread with the poll,,, I made posts about Willie Mays, Brooks Robinson and card show experiences with them and a COA about Mantle autographs where I admittedly made an error. Unless I have missed something I cannot find one post in those two threads where I "piled on" David after I said I would stop.
__________________
Sign up & receive my autograph price list. E mail me,richsprt@aol.com, with your e mail. Sports,entertainment,history. - Here is a link to my online store. Many items for sale. 10% disc. for 54 members. E mail me first. www.bonanza.com/booths/richsports -- "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure."- Clarence Darrow
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#11
11-04-2011, 07:57 AM
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Last edited by thekingofclout; 11-04-2011 at 07:58 AM.
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#12
11-04-2011, 08:18 AM
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BTW….Sarcastic
 should have been inserted after my comment. David is not the worst I have met in this hobby..not even close.
__________________
[I]"When you photograph people in colour you photograph their clothes. But when you photograph people in B&W, you photograph their souls." ~Ted Grant Www.weingartensvintage.com https://www.facebook.com/WeingartensVintage http://www.psacard.com/Articles/Arti...ben-weingarten ALWAYS BUYING BABE RUTH RED SOX TYPE 1 PHOTOGRAPHS--->To add to my collection
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#14
11-04-2011, 08:24 AM
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#15
11-04-2011, 08:45 AM
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__________________
[I]"When you photograph people in colour you photograph their clothes. But when you photograph people in B&W, you photograph their souls." ~Ted Grant Www.weingartensvintage.com https://www.facebook.com/WeingartensVintage http://www.psacard.com/Articles/Arti...ben-weingarten ALWAYS BUYING BABE RUTH RED SOX TYPE 1 PHOTOGRAPHS--->To add to my collection
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#16
11-04-2011, 08:48 AM
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These recent threads are about to reduce me to begging: Can we please separate this forum into TWO separate forums, so the vintage memorabilia collectors can avoid this tripe?
1) vintage memorabilia (non-COA stuff) 2) autographs and game-used
__________________
$co++ Forre$+ Last edited by Runscott; 11-04-2011 at 08:49 AM.
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#17
11-04-2011, 09:13 AM
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stupid
Here Here. I agree, Richard my friend ENOUGH PLEASE!
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#18
11-04-2011, 09:38 AM
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Agreed that that is the worst apology ever.
Also agree that a separate autograph forum be created. But please don't include game used items with autographs. Just like most memorabilia collectors, we don't want to be subjected to the endless threads about the latest bogus Ruth or Mantle autograph spotted on ebay. Greg
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#20
11-04-2011, 10:05 AM
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To someone who doesn't collect game-used or autographs, they seem like part of the same cluster f**k Scott <== never wanted to be a fireman
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$co++ Forre$+
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#21
11-04-2011, 10:16 AM
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#22
11-04-2011, 10:21 AM
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__________________
Sign up & receive my autograph price list. E mail me,richsprt@aol.com, with your e mail. Sports,entertainment,history. - Here is a link to my online store. Many items for sale. 10% disc. for 54 members. E mail me first. www.bonanza.com/booths/richsports -- "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure."- Clarence Darrow Last edited by RichardSimon; 11-04-2011 at 10:23 AM.
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#23
11-04-2011, 10:25 AM
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#24
11-04-2011, 10:37 AM
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I have no idea if anyone on this board got burned.
It is certainly possible but I don't think anyone has come forward yet and said they did. The number of fellow collectors screwed by CC is beyond anyone's calculation.
__________________
Sign up & receive my autograph price list. E mail me,richsprt@aol.com, with your e mail. Sports,entertainment,history. - Here is a link to my online store. Many items for sale. 10% disc. for 54 members. E mail me first. www.bonanza.com/booths/richsports -- "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure."- Clarence Darrow Last edited by RichardSimon; 11-04-2011 at 10:42 AM.
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#25
11-04-2011, 11:10 AM
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Autographs are just nuts - as a kid who used to get free autographs from pro players (I still have every one of them), I can't imagine standing in line and paying a guy to sign something. I have only bought autographs from dead guys. Trimmed and altered cards are just as bad. All of the above are why I ended up gravitating to cool old stuff that no one would have any incentive to mess with.
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$co++ Forre$+
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#26
11-04-2011, 11:43 AM
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#27
11-04-2011, 11:45 AM
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Richard, you have been (and continue to be) a terrific force in the autograph business.
I've only done business with you once, but have read the newsletter section on your site regularly for many years. I appreciate your work in trying to clean up the hobby. My presence here is almost exclusively as a lurker, but I read your posts with the recognition that you are highly skilled and honorable. You don't need to apologize to me.
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#28
11-04-2011, 11:49 AM
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Considering the stuff I am seeing on other locations, I am believing that dealers are major participants in CC auctions and this stuff gets shoveled around the hobby several times.
__________________
Sign up & receive my autograph price list. E mail me,richsprt@aol.com, with your e mail. Sports,entertainment,history. - Here is a link to my online store. Many items for sale. 10% disc. for 54 members. E mail me first. www.bonanza.com/booths/richsports -- "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure."- Clarence Darrow
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#30
11-04-2011, 12:11 PM
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Sam majors
Not saying either man is a fool but Mark Twains quote about arguing with a fool sure applied here!
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#31
11-04-2011, 12:14 PM
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#32
11-04-2011, 12:17 PM
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Don't Separate the forums
I don't think separating the autographs from memorabilia is needed.
First of there aren't that many posts on this side to begin with. Second, you already have a way to not read posts about Collectors Corner, bogus Ruths. Don't open them! People have complained before about autograph threads, yet they still read them. Why? People complain about bickering threads, yet they still read them. Why? So far, between the first Simon vs Atkatz thread, the "Who do you side with?" thread, and this thread they have 7379 views and 190 replies since 10/31(4 days). In contrast, the "Centerpice of your collection thread" has only 3329 views and 56 replies since 10/23 (11d). It seems strange to me that the stuff people complain about is the stuff they read. Even Scott, who brought up separating autographs was the last person to post in the "authenticity question" thread. You read 34 posts prior to posting your self. If you don't like those threads, why did you read it? I guess I like everything together, because I don't have to bounce from forum to forum. Don't read the threads that don't interest you! Oh and BTW, I have seen arguments on the forum for many things including cards, photos, autos, bats, outing auctions, and the list goes on. I've also seen threads about fake signs/display items, fake pennants, and hucksters selling all manner of fake crap. It's gonna happen no matter how you seprate things. Just avoid the things you don't like. Just my 2c. Best to all, Mark
__________________
My signed 1934 Goudey set(in progress). https://flic.kr/s/aHsjFuyogy Other interests/sets/collectibles. https://www.flickr.com/photos/96571220@N08/albums My for sale or trade photobucket album https://flic.kr/s/aHsk7c1SRL
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#33
11-04-2011, 12:28 PM
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Last edited by mschwade; 11-04-2011 at 12:28 PM.
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#34
11-04-2011, 12:31 PM
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#35
11-04-2011, 12:43 PM
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__________________
$co++ Forre$+
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#36
11-04-2011, 12:44 PM
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__________________
$co++ Forre$+
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#37
11-04-2011, 12:55 PM
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__________________
Leon Luckey
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#38
11-04-2011, 01:07 PM
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I don't believe I'm owed an apology by anyone. People get in spats, even public spats at times. So long as they don't run on forever.
Mark
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#39
11-04-2011, 01:08 PM
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I also visit pool forums and vintage clothing forums. I wouldn't want to seem them lumped together, any more than I would want to see autographs lumped in with vintage memorabilia, but that's just me.
__________________
$co++ Forre$+
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#40
11-04-2011, 01:24 PM
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#41
11-04-2011, 02:15 PM
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As Scott said, look how neat that team sheet is. Every signature is on an imaginary straight line, and each one is equidistant from the one above, the one below, and the one next to it. It's great to see an entire team of major leaguers so fastidious about their penmanship.
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#42
11-04-2011, 03:20 PM
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__________________
Looking for Nebraska Indians memorabilia, photos and postcards
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#43
11-04-2011, 03:51 PM
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If you can show how Cabbage Patch dolls fit in a PreWWII baseball Vintage memorabilia category feel free to post away. (I was going to include VD above, but I remembered the letter Mantle wrote describing his favorite memory of Yankee stadium as being a hummer he got below the bleachers. So I guess it might fit in certain circumstances )http://www.google.com/url?q=http://w...HIFNr5ZPZUNmNQ Listen, I don't want to argue with you. We each have our own opinion and that is fine. Autographs are sports memorabilia and many are vintage. Therefore they fit the forum criteria. I do agree that posts about Mantle signatures, while often informative, are a little off topic as they are all post war. I say a little, because not that long ago Leon changed the forum name to "(Primarily) Vintage." OTOH, posts about fake Ruths and bogus Mathewsons are absolutely on topic, just like posts about fake pennants that were on ebay and the fake Yankee silver serving platters, among others. Best to all, Mark
__________________
My signed 1934 Goudey set(in progress). https://flic.kr/s/aHsjFuyogy Other interests/sets/collectibles. https://www.flickr.com/photos/96571220@N08/albums My for sale or trade photobucket album https://flic.kr/s/aHsk7c1SRL Last edited by Lordstan; 11-04-2011 at 03:54 PM.
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#44
11-04-2011, 05:59 PM
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I know, you want to state your opinion and have me accept it. Why aren't cards and memorabilia grouped together? They're similar. Why aren't pre-war and post-war cards grouped together? They're similar. Autographs and memorabilia? Not really all that similar. Same for cabbage patch dolls and memorabilia, although neither involve autographs so there could be an argument that they are more similar. Basically, each person wants the forums organized according to their own collecting tastes. What's good for the majority is not actually how the break-out is determined. This is a pre-war baseball card forum - all else falls where the owner wants it to.
__________________
$co++ Forre$+
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#45
11-04-2011, 06:43 PM
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I completely agree with Mark (Lordstan) on this. I have always considered autographs to be a key segment of the Memorabilia realm. There are fakes in every aspect of memorabilia, so how is this any different?
The Memorabilia Board gets about a third as many posts as the Card side. So what's the harm here? I choose not to read all the threads asking to identify some obscure player in the back row of a mutilated team photo. Can't people simply choose to ignore the autograph threads, if they are that repulsed by them?
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#46
11-04-2011, 07:44 PM
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As far as ignoring certain threads; again, we could add cabbage patch dolls and you could ignore those. There's no logic in that logic. The discussion as to what forums belong together should be based on relevance, not our ability as humans to ignore things we're not interested in.
__________________
$co++ Forre$+ Last edited by Runscott; 11-04-2011 at 07:46 PM.
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#47
11-05-2011, 01:35 AM
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It's ok not to agree on this one, Scott...
I know autographs aren't everyone's cup of tea. I prefer a lot of other memorabilia types to autographs. But I happen to like them mixed in with the other items I have on display. I can certainly respect the fact that others might not. To each his own... it's all good. I think the only fundamental difference is that some see autographs as a completely different realm, and some see it as memorabilia 
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#48
11-05-2011, 09:28 AM
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I'm a big-time lurker hereand don't take sides as I don't know the personalities nor do I feel the need to. The recent interaction doesn't reflect well on either Richard or David but that's outweighed by their overall interaction on this board and, importantly, the insight that they have given unitl now.
I hope that doesn't stop. I hope the bickering does.
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#49
11-05-2011, 11:01 AM
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Edit:
Post removed. I thought about this post all day long. I regretted posting it about a half hour after I did. I have had no internet access all day so I could only post now. Too much energy wasted on everyone's part with no point. I apologize to all of you for wasting your time. Scott, I apologize to you as well. Dumb argument for no reason. Back to collecting and showing it off, the things we all agree on. Best to everyone, Mark
__________________
My signed 1934 Goudey set(in progress). https://flic.kr/s/aHsjFuyogy Other interests/sets/collectibles. https://www.flickr.com/photos/96571220@N08/albums My for sale or trade photobucket album https://flic.kr/s/aHsk7c1SRL Last edited by Lordstan; 11-05-2011 at 10:07 PM.
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#50
11-05-2011, 11:40 AM
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Edited - apologizing to myself for wasting my own time responding to that post.
Cards and 'everything else' is the way it is and the way it always has been. These discussions only serve to amuse the powers that be.
__________________
$co++ Forre$+ Last edited by Runscott; 11-05-2011 at 12:40 PM.
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