OT non sports the Boss

[Duluth Eskimo]

Originally Posted by isaac2004

I wholeheartedly disagree with this statement, by sheer definition here is the definition of the adjective liberal

Open to new behavior or opinions and willing to discard traditional values

now here it is for conservative

Holding to traditional attitudes and values and cautious about change or innovation, typically in politics or religion.

I would discern from the definitions that liberals are more open to "Change" than conservatives.

There's this little piece of paper that you may remember reading about in 10th grade government class, it's called the Constitution which is what the US was founded on. "Open to change" is exactly what I am referring to because there must be a better way to govern than what made us the greatest nation in the
World for the last 300 plus years. Of course "HE" must be smarter than everyone that came before him. Wait, or maybe socialism just doesn't work after all.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

There's this little piece of paper that you may remember reading about in 10th grade government class, it's called the Constitution which is what the US was founded on. "Open to change" is exactly what I am referring to because there must be a better way to govern than what made us the greatest nation in the
World for the last 300 plus years. Of course "HE" must be smarter than everyone that came before him. Wait, or maybe socialism just doesn't work after all.

Looks like you will (be grouchy), though!

Guess what, Duluth? It ain't your father's America no more.

Get used to it.

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

It ain't your father's America no more.

Sure it is.

These things are cyclical. Sooner or later the balloon will burst with the cult of personality messiah and it won't seem so fashionable to look to the government as the solution to every problem. It doesn't seem like it now, but self-determination doesn't go out of style.

[JimStinson]

BREAKING NEWS ! President chooses NEW VP

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by JimStinson

BREAKING NEWS ! President chooses NEW VP

Say it ain't so!

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

Sure it is.

These things are cyclical. Sooner or later the balloon will burst with the cult of personality messiah and it won't seem so fashionable to look to the government as the solution to every problem. It doesn't seem like it now, but self-determination doesn't go out of style.

It ain't.
It has nothing to do with a "cult of personality," and everything to do with voter demographics. Old white men are dying, and blacks, Hispanics, Asians, LGBT, and more liberal youth are taking their place.

In not-so-many years, the Hispanic vote will render Texas a blue state.

Dig it!

[cubsfan-budman]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

It ain't.
It has nothing to do with a "cult of personality," and everything to do with voter demographics. Old white men are dying, and blacks, Hispanics, Asians, LBGT, and more liberal youth are taking their place.

In not-so-many years, the Hispanic vote will render Texas a blue state.

Dig it!

I was going to post something very similar to this.

My super-old neighbor dropped by today while I was doing yard work and told me many things regarding how disappointed he was in the election results. I was polite because he's super old, but one of his parting notes made me raise my eyebrows. He mentioned how men have given up their leadership role when it comes to women. I guess that in the "old days" a woman would vote how her husband voted (I don't actually know if this was a "spoken" thing, or if she just knew to do so).

This certainly isn't so anymore, and there's no doubt that we're better off for it. My wife is quite capable in a way that I gather my neighbor isn't familiar with. The world is changing. Women do stuff. She deserves to have her voice heard independent of mine. I truly believe this. Her interests are naturally informed by a different set of issues than mine...we still tend to agree on most stuff anyhow.

The same is true for all minorities who's voices were marginalized for years and years. Black, female, homosexual, Latino, atheist, whatever...these groups comprise a huge majority when their interests intersect. The world is bigger and smaller at the same time and we have an awesome opportunity to reject fear and exclusion and embrace their opposites.

Cult of personality doesn't even begin to explain why Obama and his progressive ideas are more popular than any mainstream GOP leader's stone-aged ideas. I certainly reject the idea that the election of Obama was unconstitutional. Deal with reality now...it IS different and frankly, I believe it IS better.

[jgmp123]

"Cult of Personality" - Living Colour

Great track.

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

It has nothing to do with a "cult of personality," and everything to do with voter demographics. Old white men are dying, and blacks, Hispanics, Asians, LGBT, and more liberal youth are taking their place.

In not-so-many years, the Hispanic vote will render Texas a blue state

My point is, today's disgruntled, "disenfranchised" 20- or 30-something -- latino, black, gay... whatever -- is tomorrow's business person who has to meet a payroll and pay taxes. Yes, indeed, demographics change. In my view, Latinos in particular may shift away from the Dems.

If the messiah could re-brand the old tax and spend Democrats into something more fashionable, then it's entirely possible the GOP could undergo a similar transformation with the right talent.

And if you don't think that Obama's success is not largely due to the celebrity nature of the culture and pure marketing, then maybe you are one of the enthralled. Do you really think the college age kids that vote for him in droves are deep political thinkers with a real grasp of the issues? Or maybe, just maybe, they are voting for him because it's the fashionable thing to do among that crowd?

[mr2686]

I agree Steve. The College students are no more deep thinkers when it comes to politics than their professors that have never had a real job in the private sector.

[cubsfan-budman]

I think that young folks vote for Liberals in general, that's not new.

Social Conservatism isn't all that attractive when you're 18-24.

[Duluth Eskimo]

The biggest problem in society nowadays is that everyone thinks they deserve to be the boss and no one thinks that they have to work hard. I would bet our parents worked harder in one day than most of us work in a week. You have kids that work for fortune 500 companies that can't start their day at work without a Starbucks break. The days of paying your way through college then working hard to repay your debt is a thing of the past. People today think they deserve everything and don't have to work for anything. This is supposed to be ok and because we are the land of opportunity, we must be obligated to pay for it. Problem is, HE is running out of people to pay for it. Am I bitter, no. Am I disappointed that my children will have to pay off debt because people are too lazy to take care of themselve, yes. Please don't give me the needy story either as my family has been in that spot before. This is going way off topic so this is where I bow out. Good talk Rusty, good talk.

[isaac2004]

My head hurts, can we get back to autographs?

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

tax and spend Democrats

Are you crazy, Steve? The "tax and spend Democrats" provided a surplus for the "don't tax but spend trillions more on unfunded wars" Republicans to piss away, create the largest debt ever, and then crash the economy to boot.

But, hey, it's much easier to blame it all on Obama's charisma.

Whatever works for you.

[David Atkatz]

Oh, and I guess teaching isn't a real job, but commodity trading, arbitrage, and private equity (in which you buy companies, bleed them dry, and then throw away the dried husk (basically the workers) is.

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Are you crazy, Steve? The "tax and spend Democrats"

My point was the DEMs had a very low, negative image at one point (tax and spend) and one charismatic figure transformed the image of the party. The GOP can do the same thing. So I wouldn't start shoveling dirt on the party of "nearly extinct old white men" just yet.

We could debate the other issues you raised but I suspect neither one would convince the other, so why bother?