Honest, unbiased thoughts from a member, i.e. current boards situation

[njdunkin1]

Felt like making this public after putting together my thoughts.

I have been a member solid for about 16 months solid on N54. I grew fond of the members and the new sharings/discussions very quickly. I felt appreciated as I observed the brotherhood of members providing and encouraging fun times, topics, and threads during my first six months or so.

In lieu of this, I feel the face of the boards has changed since that time. I completely understand change is quite important in any aspect of life, but negative change for reasons that can be helped is usually not a good thing. I find the whole "sense of camaraderie" among members to be almost entirely gone. What was once a forums filled with energy and excitement about cards has now turned to (unfortunately) too many posts and threads filled with grief.

Please note: I am not attributing this to any one member or group of members. I am also not looking for an argument or accolades/agreements. My desire is simply to publicly voice my opinion in the most unbiased way possible, as well as to provide an explanation as to why I have shifted away from being so active on these forums.

I am offering my services to all those concerned (board members and moderators, I suppose) in order to shift back into the positive state that was once N54.

Highest regards,
NJ Dunkin

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Originally Posted by njdunkin1

Felt like making this public after putting together my thoughts.

I have been a member solid for about 16 months solid on N54. I grew fond of the members and the new sharings/discussions very quickly. I felt appreciated as I observed the brotherhood of members providing and encouraging fun times, topics, and threads during my first six months or so.

In lieu of this, I feel the face of the boards has changed since that time. I completely understand change is quite important in any aspect of life, but negative change for reasons that can be helped is usually not a good thing. I find the whole "sense of camaraderie" among members to be almost entirely gone. What was once a forums filled with energy and excitement about cards has now turned to (unfortunately) too many posts and threads filled with grief.

Please note: I am not attributing this to any one member or group of members. I am also not looking for an argument or accolades/agreements. My desire is simply to publicly voice my opinion in the most unbiased way possible, as well as to provide an explanation as to why I have shifted away from being so active on these forums.

I am offering my services to all those concerned (board members and moderators, I suppose) in order to shift back into the positive state that was once N54.

Highest regards,
NJ Dunkin

My man!

[Snapolit1]

Not that I haven't screwed up on occasion and posted stuff on the wrong board, but if the main board was limited to educational type inquiries and not someone wheeling and dealing cards for trades, I think it would alleviate a lot of people's disappointment as to the current state of the board. Having some carnival barker screaming "come
on boys .... you can do better than that" is not what this board should be about.

[Leon]

We need more...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Kx9MdYYx7o

.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by njdunkin1

Felt like making this public after putting together my thoughts.

I have been a member solid for about 16 months solid on N54. I grew fond of the members and the new sharings/discussions very quickly. I felt appreciated as I observed the brotherhood of members providing and encouraging fun times, topics, and threads during my first six months or so.

In lieu of this, I feel the face of the boards has changed since that time. I completely understand change is quite important in any aspect of life, but negative change for reasons that can be helped is usually not a good thing. I find the whole "sense of camaraderie" among members to be almost entirely gone. What was once a forums filled with energy and excitement about cards has now turned to (unfortunately) too many posts and threads filled with grief.

Please note: I am not attributing this to any one member or group of members. I am also not looking for an argument or accolades/agreements. My desire is simply to publicly voice my opinion in the most unbiased way possible, as well as to provide an explanation as to why I have shifted away from being so active on these forums.

I am offering my services to all those concerned (board members and moderators, I suppose) in order to shift back into the positive state that was once N54.

Highest regards,
NJ Dunkin

I dunno. I think it also depends on where the majority of your posts are or what threads you read most often. The largest portion of my posts on the board are in the "vintage racing" thread, and there is a ton of camaraderie in that thread. There is not even a hint of acrimony or drama in that thread.

For the most part, four or five people do much of the posting in that thread, but lots of other people have visited the thread and commented how interesting the thread is.

I guess it probably helps the civility in that thread that the cards and items being shown in the thread aren't worth tens of thousands of dollars or the subject of blatant shill bidding/overgrading/trimming/recoloring/altering or other shady behavior.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Not that I haven't screwed up on occasion and posted stuff on the wrong board, but if the main board was limited to educational type inquiries and not someone wheeling and dealing cards for trades, I think it would alleviate a lot of people's disappointment as to the current state of the board. Having some carnival barker screaming "come
on boys .... you can do better than that" is not what this board should be about.

LOLOL I hate that thread too but it's just one thread. I would disagree with the OP's premise, I don't really see much difference between now and a year or two ago. For me the biggest change over time has been that many very knowledgeable people (both about cards and the hobby itself) aren't here any more or barely post, whether because they are banned, or lost interest, or whatever.

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by njdunkin1

Felt like making this public after putting together my thoughts.

...... I find the whole "sense of camaraderie" among members to be almost entirely gone. What was once a forums filled with energy and excitement about cards has now turned to (unfortunately) too many posts and threads filled with grief.....

Highest regards,
NJ Dunkin

You should have seen the board a dozen years ago! There was quite a bit of angst...with a lot of griping and complaining I did not even want to participate.

It isn't perfect, but it is much more enjoyable today.

Z

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

LOLOL I hate that thread too but it's just one thread. I would disagree with the OP's premise, I don't really see much difference between now and a year or two ago. For me the biggest change over time has been that many very knowledgeable people (both about cards and the hobby itself) aren't here any more or barely post, whether because they are banned, or lost interest, or whatever.

Some, unfortunately, have passed away. While others, like myself, are just not as intelligent as they used to be.

Brian

[bnorth]

I have been a member for almost 4 years and it seem s about the same to me overall. I really like the BST section as I buy most of my cards off it and have for a while. We have not had anybody commit to buying stuff and not paying for a while now.

[rdixon1208]

Stick around a little longer and things will change again. And again. There's always a couple of new members who come to the board and post thousands of times in a year or two. Those guys tend to inevitably stir up all kinds of resentment and bickering. But soon enough they get bored and move on to something else. I've found that if I can avoid/ignore the really needy new guy then I can still have lots of fun with this site.

[kailes2872]

I have been enthralled with the history of card collecting posts. I really enjoyed the ones that showed the evolution through the 50's and 60's and how the cards increased in cost and the superstars started costing more due to the increased demand. The posts about Carter, Wagner, Burdick, etc. are really awesome and I feel like I really learn something and have a better understanding of how we got here today. I really like Ted Z's post where he talks about the history of a set, how they were laid out on a sheet and therefore, the relative scarcity and condition of certain cards. I feel like I am sitting in a college class earning a high level degree from a professor.

Do I love every rare back T206 thread and those like it? Not really, but then again, I am currently a post-war set collector and I try to learn as much as I can so that when I enter the pre-war foray, I will know as much as possible in order to avoid counterfeits, know proper value and the like. I am sure that there are a lot of electronic eye rolls when I post an obvious question on that board and it probably could have been answered by proper use of the search function.

Is everything awesome all the time? I am sure it could be better in spots. But in the few years that I have been here, I have made several wonderful acquaintances and dare I say, friends (although they might beg to differ...)

I think if you allow the forum to be what is intended to be 1.) a great place to learn from very advanced collectors and 2.) a safe place to buy and sell stuff where we can take out the middle man and get better deals on both sides, then you will be happy. If you expect it to be a place where we all get along all of the time, you will be disappointed - but I am not sure that you will find that place this side of heaven.

[BeanTown]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

LOLOL I hate that thread too but it's just one thread. I would disagree with the OP's premise, I don't really see much difference between now and a year or two ago. For me the biggest change over time has been that many very knowledgeable people (both about cards and the hobby itself) aren't here any more or barely post, whether because they are banned, or lost interest, or whatever.

Or bullied.

[rhettyeakley]

Just my opinion but some of it has to do with the fact that when a thread is started to actually get some research done about cards and/or baseball or inquiries are made about actual Pre-WW2 cards NOBODY freaking responds and the threads quickly get buried under the other stuff. The threads with drama and headache get hundreds of responses and thousands of views.

Not the biggest deal in the world but Just in the past 24-48 hours a thread was started about the 1912 Zeenut set and there were 4-5 responses or so and the thread has disappeared to the abyss of "Page 2" and will probably never be seen again. Another thread discussing our hobbies history from the 1940's got 2 responses and POOF!, gone.

A lot of the past members of this board (which I still enjoy very much) no longer post as they feel it isn't worth their time to post meaningful things just to have them be unappreciated and buried under threads about trading for a dream card (nearly 400 replies), pissing contests, posts about banned members, and other stuff that just serves to piss off other people.

I joke sometimes that feel like I personally am the "post killer" as I feel like as soon as I write a reply the thread I am responding to tends to get no more action and is gone in a matter of hours. Not sure what that means other than I may not be all that popular

[btcarfagno]

You guys should have been around when Archive ruled the roost. He was one badass mofo.

Tom C

[slidekellyslide]

I've been here for 13 or 14 years. It's pretty much always been this way. There have been times when the drama was at 'Threat Level Midnight', this ain't nothing. Ironically the people who complain the loudest about the drama are usually the cause of much of the drama.

[Topnotchsy]

I've been a member for a little over 3 years, and only really started posting in the last year or so.

For me as a younger collector (born in the 80's which is later than most of the people here I believe) who loves baseball history and has shifted from collecting modern cards to vintage and vintage game-used, this boards has been amazing for me. I'm constantly blown away by the knowledge that is here, the willingness for people to share information and help each other out, and the incredible collections of the members.

There's definitely better and worse times (weeks, months etc) but over all I can only speak for myself, but I still feel honored to be here, and amazed by so many people here.

[edjs]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

I joke sometimes that feel like I personally am the "post killer" as I feel like as soon as I write a reply the thread I am responding to tends to get no more action and is gone in a matter of hours. Not sure what that means other than I may not be all that popular

Rhett, I thought that was me. I always chock it up to me being an idiot, and I say/ask something so stupid no one has words to describe to me how idiotic my post is, so they just let the thread die due to their complete bafflement someone could be so dumb. You, I am shocked would feel this way. If people don't respond after your post, it is because they realize they are in the presence of a true genius, and don't want to say anything after your brilliant comment. Then I come along and post, and we all know that is when the post dies.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by edjs

Rhett, I thought that was me. I always chock it up to me being an idiot, and I say/ask something so stupid no one has words to describe to me how idiotic my post is, so they just let the thread die due to their complete bafflement someone could be so dumb. You, I am shocked would feel this way. If people don't respond after your post, it is because they realize they are in the presence of a true genius, and don't want to say anything after your brilliant comment. Then I come along and post, and we all know that is when the post dies.

I've been a thread killer my whole time I've been here, but I usually chalk it up to being late to the party. At least I hope that's it.

[edjs]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

I've been a thread killer my whole time I've been here, but I usually chalk it up to being late to the party. At least I hope that's it.

Dan, it is because you have that moderator thing in your title. People are terrified of ticking you off.

[Beastmode]

Exactly what "services" is OP offering? Therapy?

[mattjc1983]

I don't post much but I'll say one thing, spending time both here and Blowout, this place is 10 times more mature (which probably makes sense as I'd guess there's a significant age gap between the two sites).

Sure, people get cranky, there is drama, and I've observed at least a few pairs of members that seem to have some ancient beef that causes them to do nothing but follow each other around from thread to thread hating on each other's posts, but all that aside, the amount of Net54 posts that are written to do nothing but mock others is a tiny fraction of what I've observed on Blowout over the same time period.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jeffrompa]

... and things have changed . Some for the better some for the worst . But its still the best place to learn about and see Pre War cards .. Its much less contentious than the days when I started . I still log in here more than my bank account .

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

You should have seen the board a dozen years ago! There was quite a bit of angst...with a lot of griping and complaining I did not even want to participate.

It isn't perfect, but it is much more enjoyable today.

Z

I love this board....it is great. Unlike PSA that is so boring you want to fall asleep, and SGC that is literally a "ghost town", with the most recent threads being last summer in some instances. I kid you not.

[edhans]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

Just my opinion but some of it has to do with the fact that when a thread is started to actually get some research done about cards and/or baseball or inquiries are made about actual Pre-WW2 cards NOBODY freaking responds and the threads quickly get buried under the other stuff. The threads with drama and headache get hundreds of responses and thousands of views.

Not the biggest deal in the world but Just in the past 24-48 hours a thread was started about the 1912 Zeenut set and there were 4-5 responses or so and the thread has disappeared to the abyss of "Page 2" and will probably never be seen again. Another thread discussing our hobbies history from the 1940's got 2 responses and POOF!, gone.

A lot of the past members of this board (which I still enjoy very much) no longer post as they feel it isn't worth their time to post meaningful things just to have them be unappreciated and buried under threads about trading for a dream card (nearly 400 replies), pissing contests, posts about banned members, and other stuff that just serves to piss off other people.

I joke sometimes that feel like I personally am the "post killer" as I feel like as soon as I write a reply the thread I am responding to tends to get no more action and is gone in a matter of hours. Not sure what that means other than I may not be all that popular

Well said, Rhett.

[njdunkin1]

Originally Posted by rdixon1208

Stick around a little longer and things will change again. And again. There's always a couple of new members who come to the board and post thousands of times in a year or two. Those guys tend to inevitably stir up all kinds of resentment and bickering. But soon enough they get bored and move on to something else. I've found that if I can avoid/ignore the really needy new guy then I can still have lots of fun with this site.

Very reasonable assessment...I appreciate the advice. Thank you :]

Originally Posted by Beastmode

Exactly what "services" is OP offering? Therapy?

I have a strong distaste for when people complain without offering a solution. My intent was not to be one of those people.

[hangman62]

I think in spite of occasion bad blood...this here net54 thing is a wonderful device

[obcbobd]

I've been here since the beginning (I think). As others have said the posts with all the drama and name calling are nothing new. My initial thought was to say its improved. I'm not sure if that's true, it may just seem to be better as I've learned to filter out (meaning don't even open them, or if I do open them, don't go back) the posts that I find disruptive or annoying.

Happy collecting!

[iowadoc77]

Originally Posted by mattjc1983

I don't post much but I'll say one thing, spending time both here and Blowout, this place is 10 times more mature (which probably makes sense as I'd guess there's a significant age gap between the two sites).

Sure, people get cranky, there is drama, and I've observed at least a few pairs of members that seem to have some ancient beef that causes them to do nothing but follow each other around from thread to thread hating on each other's posts, but all that aside, the amount of Net54 posts that are written to do nothing but mock others is a tiny fraction of what I've observed on Blowout over the same time period.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

+1 Blowout is ridiculous compared to this. Bunch of jerks that rule the boards over there. I probably edit more than 1/2 of my posts on that forum so that people don't get their panties in a wad. And if you try to sell something there and you aren't 20% below ebay, the vultures will descend on you immediately regardless of their intentions to purchase. This is a great place and a great forum. IMHO

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by iowadoc77

+1 Blowout is ridiculous compared to this. Bunch of jerks that rule the boards over there. I probably edit more than 1/2 of my posts on that forum so that people don't get their panties in a wad. And if you try to sell something there and you aren't 20% below ebay, the vultures will descend on you immediately regardless of their intentions to purchase. This is a great place and a great forum. IMHO

I do like the custom here of not crapping on stuff people are selling in BST. If you are not interested, move on. Don't need to start ripping someone because you think the card is overpriced or over graded. That makes BST work very well.

[bbcard1]

I spend a lot of time on this board. i don't post all that much because despite the fact I've collected for 40 years, have owned a shop and promoted dozens of shows, I am just not nearly as knowledgeable as others here. I joined back in 2009 and I don't really think it has changed on balance..but you go through seasons where people are more or less civil. A single member can make a profound difference.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

LOLOL I hate that thread too but it's just one thread. I would disagree with the OP's premise, I don't really see much difference between now and a year or two ago. For me the biggest change over time has been that many very knowledgeable people (both about cards and the hobby itself) aren't here any more or barely post, whether because they are banned, or lost interest, or whatever.

Or incarcerated.

[iowadoc77]

The line has blurred between constructive criticism and being a bit of an ass or a lot of an ass. There is a lot of all 3, but over all, this is a great place to be. I am very thankful for the BST section. if it were not here, my collection would be significantly smaller and have much less variety

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Or incarcerated.

Hey, Mark Theotikis gets out of prison tomorrow, just in time to get his inventory ready for the National.

http://nsccshow.com/wp-content/uploa...st-4-25-17.pdf

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Hey, Mark Theotikis gets out of prison tomorrow, just in time to get his inventory ready for the National.

http://nsccshow.com/wp-content/uploa...st-4-25-17.pdf

And Mastro is out of prison and in a halfway house; once he gets done washing the feet of lepers I bet he'll make his way down to the National too!

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

You should have seen the board a dozen years ago! There was quite a bit of angst...with a lot of griping and complaining I did not even want to participate.

It isn't perfect, but it is much more enjoyable today.

Z

I first found the forum on the original Net54 about 15 years ago, became a regular visitor for a while during the days of Hal L. and Julie V., left for a year or two for the reasons mentioned in the OP and have been a pretty frequent visitor and participant for the past decade or so. There's been more of shift to T206 and away from obscure issues, and I'm not especially happy with that development, but I think it's largely indicative of an influx of new blood to the hobby, and that I am happy with. On the issue of complaining, that just waxes and wanes. I haven't noticed a trend per se in either direction, but certainly I've seen it worse than it is right now.

I make an effort to be thoughtful or helpful or at least entertaining in what I post, so I'd certainly prefer not to be harassed by people who think I'm incorrect about something I post, or to have my rationale dismissed on the basis of a poorly-constructed argument, but to some extent I've just gotten used to that as one of the costs of hanging out on the internet with people who share in common with me a hobby but probably have an entirely different academic background.

[2dueces]

The last few years are extremely tame compared to passed years. We went through a host of memorable characters. Sometimes I miss the old days, especially when Leon was away for a weekend. I'd just pour some popcorn in a bowl and watch like it was UFC Saturday night.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Or incarcerated.

Good point.

[Kawika]

Adam Moraine, the Bruces, Marshall Barkman, Sean the 11 year old kid with ADHD, Chicago dude, Adrian . . . did I miss anyone? Leon Luckey's Flying Circus ain't what it used to be. Am already starting to miss Joey Farino.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Kawika

Adam Moraine, the Bruces, Marshall Barkman, Sean the 11 year old kid with ADHD, Chicago dude, Adrian . . . did I miss anyone? Leon Luckey's Flying Circus ain't what it used to be. Am already starting to miss Joey Farino.

Don't forget that Andrew guy who tried to sell a Wagner that he didn't own.

[drcy]

The major drama is usually only in one or two threads, and if you avoid those there is nearly no drama on the board. I've been out of the loop on some dramas, because I never clicked on one of those elongated threads.

For me-- along with the informational posts, answers to questions posted, sharing of pictures, discussions of auction items and the like--, I enjoy the casual and joking interactions that happen (swapping of stories etc), but have no interest in the melodramas. Though I agree that some of the 'characters' from times past are funny in retrospect.

[sbfinley]

Originally Posted by Kawika

Adam Moraine, the Bruces, Marshall Barkman, Sean the 11 year old kid with ADHD, Chicago dude, Adrian . . . did I miss anyone? Leon Luckey's Flying Circus ain't what it used to be. Am already starting to miss Joey Farino.

I was the subject of a thread started by Marshall, received a very touching personal email from The Bruces' Buyers Club, and sold a card to Adrian. Gotta be like the Net54 triple crown. I'm also pretty sure I won the first live auction in the BST - which SGC refused to pedigree as such.

Was it Adrian who was on a post limit daily and would have to mark each daily post with a number?

Long story short, it's always been a little toxic. Fun and educational, but toxic. I used to loathe the autograph side because of some of the most visible personalities and now that is mainly all I collect and it's close to the only section I participate in now. You just have to remember there are a thousand different people with a thousand different personalities. It's no different than life.

[ALR-bishop]

http://net54baseball.com/showthread....ght=Peter+chao

[brian1961]

Maybe at certain times of the year, collectors get cranky, such as when they've blown through their income tax refund money.

Certain subjects hold a particular interest for them (vested interest, that is), and they naturally have intense, strong opinions.

Some guys are awash from all the stupid mistakes they made, whether selling cards way before their time, or passing up market prices that a generation or two later (today) are considered entry level prices, and they've been unable to get past that, and simply go on spouting vitriol.

You are either part of the problem, or part of the solution. Don't go away. Keep pounding those keyboards. When you come upon a squabble, move on to another thread.

Gotta go---eat. ---Brian Powell

[nickedson]

Personally, I enjoy checking this forum on a daily basis. I look at it as I would any other kind of entertainment - if I don't like what I see, I go to something else. But, like most of us, collecting is a shared passion. Even though I set up at my first show in 1972 and have a nice collection, I learn stuff weekly from this forum, sometimes from collectors 40 years younger than me. That's what keeps me young in spirit and active in collecting.

[Kawika]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

http://net54baseball.com/showthread....ght=Peter+chao

Goodness gracious! How could I have forgotten Peter Chao? He was epic.

[Yoda]

Having been perhaps the forum Godfather of pre-war vintage card collectors with the old Fullcount Board, which I had to shut down because certain jerks were out of control and, according to my lawyer, could have led to personal liability issues.
Net54 is much different. Leon has built in checks and balances into his software. He can shut down threads and bar individuals if he chooses. I could not do that. Spirited debates about cards, market trends, auction houses etc. are encouraged. Insults are not. Big difference. This forum is a winner.

[ALR-bishop]

Kick their skinny Jedi butts he does

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Kawika

Goodness gracious! How could I have forgotten Peter Chao? He was epic.

Epic understates it. Many of his posts are classics of the genre. His observations on Virginia Tech may never be equaled.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by sbfinley

I was the subject of a thread started by Marshall, received a very touching personal email from The Bruces' Buyers Club, and sold a card to Adrian. Gotta be like the Net54 triple crown. I'm also pretty sure I won the first live auction in the BST - which SGC refused to pedigree as such.

Was it Adrian who was on a post limit daily and would have to mark each daily post with a number?

Yes, Adrian was on a post limit. I think that it was 15 posts per day.

What card did you sell him? Was it the T206 MURR'Y card that he went on and on about, then sold it a month later on ebay after he was banned on Net54?

[mybuddyinc]

"I have taken more out of alcohol (net54) than alcohol (net54) has taken out of me."

Winston Churchill

(S. Gross)