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  #21  
Old 09-20-2001, 08:22 AM
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Posted By: WWolter

I see what your saying about McGwire, but you can't "take away" stats. Take away 2000 hits from Tony Gwynn etc... If your going to take away from Big Mac, you have to add to Big Mac-3 full years of injury that he would have hit 50 hrs each year. Hr totals should not be the only criteria for H.O.F induction, but it is a sad reality. All of that being said, add 150 hr's to what McGwire has now and he is at 720 or so. That is a deffinate.

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  #22  
Old 09-20-2001, 10:06 AM
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Posted By: joe coal

what i meant was if basically is whats more important,if a guy hits 550 home runs and scores 1200 runs and has 1400 rbi's for their career is that better then a guy who hits 450/1200/1400 but is much better in other categories? appearantly it is according to the people who vote for the hall,he isnt helping is team score anymore then the other guy,and someone like mcgwire on the basepaths cant be a help,he runs like Ron Hassey!...and as far as giving a guy credit for time he missed due to injury,canseco has been on the disabled list 12 times compared to mcgwires 9 times during their careers...or best example might be tommy john,he missed the end of one season,and then the whole next year with his famous arm injury,that now has a surgery named after him,and he missed that time in is prime,why couldnt they just credit him 12 wins for that time lost,he average 15 wins,the 3 yrs before and the 3 years after the injury,so its safe to say he would of had 12 wins in 1+ seasons,that woud have put him over 300,and we would be calling him hall of famer Tommy John ... but why reward a guy for getting injured? isnt he doing his team harm when hes injured,he is taking up payroll and forcing them to play somebody they werent planning on who might not be ready for the majors or might not be good enough to start...might be hard to believe but i actually like McGwire,just because of the home runs probably John

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  #23  
Old 09-20-2001, 01:26 PM
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Posted By: Kevin Cummings

Come on - Ron Hassey ran much better than Mark McGuire! He had more stolen bases and a shorter career!

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  #24  
Old 09-20-2001, 02:37 PM
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Posted By: joe coal

i think it was phil rizzuto when i was watching the yankees,and hassey hit one into the gap for a double,he ( or whoever) said "there goes hassey turning another triple into a double"...since then hes been a popular reference among my family that was watching that game,whenever somebody does something slow,,,,i read in the sporting news during his last years,that hassey was voted the slowest player in baseball! what an honor

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  #25  
Old 09-20-2001, 03:05 PM
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Posted By: HalleyGator

If you just add 400 home runs to Hassey' totals...

then Big Ron is in the Hall of Fame!!!

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  #26  
Old 09-21-2001, 04:25 PM
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Posted By: Vognar Julie

Best won-lost percentage iof all time....

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  #27  
Old 09-21-2001, 05:02 PM
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Posted By: john

his 286 wins has to count for something,caruthers is a good choice along with other 19th century pitchers jim mccormick 264 wins,charles buffington 230,will white 227wins/2.06 era.....according to the book i have,caruthers has the 5th highest winning % ever with guys over 100 wins,spud chandler 717,whitey ford 690,dave fultz 690,don gullett 686,caruthers 682...the only problem with caruthers i think is his short career,he only pitched 9 years(he played outfield 1 year),but he was good none the less....im sure if the people on this board voted for the hall,it would definitely look alot different for the better

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  #28  
Old 09-21-2001, 06:06 PM
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Posted By: john

while looking for his yearly pitching stats,i got 3 different win/loss totals for him(217-101,218-99,217-98) but i noticed he really only had 7 full seasons,including a 17-17 record..taking into consideration the hall of fames 10 yr minimum season played,he really doesnt belong,but he could be grouped with addie joss,who only had 8 full seasons and part of another before he died,makes you wonder why they picked joss and not caruthers?....caruthers was an outfielder too,and when the mound got moved to 60ft6inches from the plate,caruthers couldnt pitch because of a sore arm and platooned in outfield with david fultz who ironically has the 3rd highest winning % for a pitcher,after 1893,caruthers played minor league baseball till 1898,could you imagine a guy nowadays,having 217 wins by the age of 29,and spendng the rest of his career as a minor league outfielder? unreal! John

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  #29  
Old 09-21-2001, 09:17 PM
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Posted By: Kevin Cummings

Well, I think the thread got so long we wound up back at the issue that I started this whole topic with - 19th century stars are going to get screwed!

P.S. I have to put a plug in for one of my favorite 19th century pitchers, too - Gus Weyhing!

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