Bee Hive hockey cards.

[irv]

Originally Posted by wvu_class_of_2001

I only learned about these a little over a year ago, when a piece on them was in the first issue of Beckett vintage collector. If you're interested, I'm more than happy to scan and post them.

I love those envelopes and advertising. Very jealous as I'd love to have something random like that.

I actually picked up a couple of Blackhawks a few months ago, since I knew a small amount of them and came across them at a show. I had them graded by Beckett just to encapsulate and protect them. Was shocked at how large the holder is.

I'd love to see them, WVU, that would be great!

I am glad my Father kept those envelopes and the advertising piece. I have seen a few envelopes for sale but never the advertising piece itself. I thought there were only 5 but there are 6 in total.

I'm curious where you purchased your Beehives, was it in the State of Texas? If so, that is interesting, considering their lack of popularity and the fact they made it all the way down there.

Glad to hear Beckett grades them. I have been told Beckett is a great resource for info and prices. Guess I should join to see for myself.

Dale

EDIT: Just read some of your blog, Kin. Very interesting. I am looking forward to reading more. I see your a Andrew Shaw fan. This was 2 years ago. My son was fortunate to play a game of shinny with Andrew Shaw. He was a great guy!!

[jim]

my issue
howe sgc 40 (909x1280).jpg

[irv]

Originally Posted by jim

my issue
Attachment 248320

Series 3, just like PSA.

I don't recall checking, but I bet that is the only series they grade as well?

[brian1961]

Dale,

Thanks ever so much for taking the time and trouble to load up those scans from your dear Dad of his Bee Hive advertising piece and mailing envelope. I find those beautiful artifacts complement our actual cards we've collected, or were given by our father, mother, relative, or friend.

In my book on postwar regional / food issues from 1947 -- 1971, I was able to come up with original ads from the 1959 Bell Brand snack chips Los Angeles Rams, as well as a 1962 Salada Coins ad that appeared in a Sunday Funnies section.

I would have loved to write a chapter on the 1968-1969 Shirriff Hockey Coins. I ran out of time, money, and space. My aim was to contact Wayne Gretzky and sit down with The Great One to discuss this set, which was a favorite of his growing up in Brantford, Ontario.

However, my introduction carries some small and larger appetizer sized entrees of hockey issue. They concern, of all things, the beautiful Bee Hives, as well as the 1968-69 Shirriff. Since I couldn't do a chapter, I made sure I had something I felt packed a big punch. As much as you guys enjoy hockey items, you still might not pop for the $30 my e-book on a CD costs. Still, I know you guys would love those parts. Honestly, though, almost the entire book is on baseball items, and those might be nonentities with you hockey guys. I understand.

Again, Dale, thanks for loading those artifacts up.

True, PSA and SGC grade the Type III Bee Hives. Thanks, Jim, for providing us with SGC's fine holder for the Type III Bee Hives. I went to SGC when PSA refused to do a few of my over-sized Mickey Mantle cards; I was stunned when PSA turned me down, but SGC came to the rescue! PSA uses their special T-3 holders to encapsulate the Bee Hives, that are extra heavy and tough, and fit the cards nicely. Bee Hives look terrific and feel extra important in those heavy holders.

DO NOT GIVE UP ON PSA GRADING THE EARLIER BEE HIVES. Mount an offensive at PSA. I don't mean a petition them or cuss them out. That will do nothing. "Dropping the gloves" would work, but you'd pay for it in the end--HA!!

Rather, present a serious treatise on the Bee Hives. Explaining to them their manner of issue, providing a value basis from previous sales, such as the one you gave on Canadien Cy Wentworth, and providing a list of would-be loyal PSA customers IF PSA would listen to your case and start grading the early BEE HIVES, and finally, assure them of the names of say, 3 deeply serious and knowledgeable Bee Hive collectors, who could serve as trainers and educators for PSA's graders on the Bee Hives.

By preparing a good detailed primer of the Bee Hives on paper, and as I may have said, after they get it and have had a chance to read it, then set up a conference call with Joe Orlando, or whoever from PSA grading will want to hear them out and answer any questions on grading the Bee Hives. This would be a pro-active approach.

This could be a win-win situation for PSA and youse guys. Food for thought.

Don't forget about my book, NEVER CHEAPER BY THE DOZEN. Thirty bucks is thirty bucks, I know. However, with what little I still wrote on the Bee Hives and the Shirriff coins, you'd get a kick out of those!

No hard feelings if you decide to pass.

Thanks again, friend, as well as for sharing the photos of your son with Andrew Shaw. Priceless! I mean it, man, they are priceless. So glad to hear his experience was great. Hockey players are still some of the greatest people with their adoring fans.

Better go. Take care, guys. ---Brian Powell

[irv]

Originally Posted by brian1961

Dale,

Thanks ever so much for taking the time and trouble to load up those scans from your dear Dad of his Bee Hive advertising piece and mailing envelope. I find those beautiful artifacts complement our actual cards we've collected, or were given by our father, mother, relative, or friend.


My aim was to contact Wayne Gretzky and sit down with The Great One to discuss this set, which was a favorite of his growing up in Brantford, Ontario.

They concern, of all things, the beautiful Bee Hives, as well as the 1968-69 Shirriff.
As much as you guys enjoy hockey items, you still might not pop for the $30 my e-book on a CD costs. Still, I know you guys would love those parts.

IF PSA would listen to your case and start grading the early BEE HIVES, and finally, assure them of the names of say, 3 deeply serious and knowledgeable Bee Hive collectors, who could serve as trainers and educators for PSA's graders on the Bee Hives.

By preparing a good detailed primer of the Bee Hives on paper, and as I may have said, after they get it and have had a chance to read it, then set up a conference call with Joe Orlando, or whoever from PSA grading will want to hear them out and answer any questions on grading the Bee Hives. This would be a pro-active approach.

This could be a win-win situation for PSA and youse guys. Food for thought.

Don't forget about my book, NEVER CHEAPER BY THE DOZEN. Brian Powell

No problem at all, Brian. I am actually glad you requested scans as I had no idea that info was on the back of that ad!
It was placed in those pgs on top on 2 cards so I couldn't see the back, and just assuming, I didn't think anything was written there?

Wayne Gretzky is actually at my Local Costco tonight signing his new book, http://www.durhamregion.com/sports-s...gning-tonight/ My wife was there tonight, unknowing Wayne was going to be there and she said you could hardly move, and this was around 4pm!
I would love to go and get a copy/signature, but by the time I found out, 5pm, I imagine he'd be long gone by the time I got up front as my wife said the line was growing by the second!

I like the sounds of your E-Book, and believe it or not, I am more of a baseball card collector than I am a hockey one.

I also like your idea about contacting PSA with some people in the know. That sounds like a great idea and one I may look into further.
I tried to contact this fellow to talk, share info but unfortunately, his e-mail address no longer works? http://www.antique67.com/articles.php?article=94

I also plan on going to the Toronto Fall Expo next month. I remember some people there with Beehives but other than my Dad, I didn't look much into them as I was busy shopping for BB cards.

I really appreciate your info and ideas, Brian, that was great of you to do!

Thank you very much!

Dale

[brian1961]

Dale, you are most welcome, my friend. Glad, and relieved, you liked my post and the ideas. With the Toronto show coming up, perhaps prepare a small paper with your objective of convincing PSA to grade ALL Bee Hives. Carefully word your plea for help to reach out to this American company. Provide your contact information so that you can develop a cadre of committed collectors and knowledgeable enthusiasts to build "the case for grading all Bee Hives".

Initially, contact PSA and ask to speak to someone who will give you a definitive answer on exacting WHY PSA does not grade the Type 1s and 2s. Don't sound argumentative; it will put up walls. No doubt they have a good reason in their own mind (the photo could become loose and re-glued many years after the Bee Hive was originally made---this thought just came to mind).

By finding out why they won't grade them, this then is the objective of your treatise---to persuade PSA by educating them that their fears are groundless because...... You then present the reason(s) PSA won't grade the Bee Hives to your cadre of experts, asking them: OK, mates, this is why PSA won't grade Bee Hives---how can we convince them and reassure them that their fears are unwarranted and that their reputation will not be soiled, and so forth.

Naturally, meeting Wayne Gretzky would have been amazing. As I said, I really wanted to interview him about his own experiences collecting the 1968-69 Shirriff Coins. Honestly, I think Wayne would have been delighted. We would not be talking about Wayne the hockey player, but as a kid who loved collecting those coins, and then finally got the chance to get a banzai set in the early 90s. Now, Dale, the latter event I wrote about in my book, NEVER CHEAPER BY THE DOZEN. It was a beautiful story that I used to conclude my introduction. The T-206 guys will hate me for it, but it was the truth about how Wayne regarded those beautiful Shirriff Hockey Coins.

Two last things.

If you really love baseball items from 1947 - 1971, by all means buy my book. You will love it! I really feel you will. If you wish to proceed, send me a $30 US money order, or if you reside in Canada, ask your banker what they can give you, that won't cost me money in order my bank to cash it. My mailing address is:

Brian Powell
P. O. Box 743
New Carlisle, Indiana 46552 USA

Second, before the year is over, write up "twenty questions" you would like to ask your Dad about his experiences as a boy of collecting his BEE HIVES. Think it through, Dale. Things like:

How did you first find out about the Bee Hive hockey photos?

Did your friends have any?

Were they popular with the other kids in your home town?

Did your mother and father help you get the label, token, box top, whatever, off the container, and help you send away for the Bee Hive photos? Any remembrances?

Who were your favorite three players? WHY?

What did you do with your Bee Hive photos once you got them?

And so on...

Figure out how will be best for your Dad to answer the questions. Will he be able to answer right off the top of his head? Or will he need the questions, with a lot of space to write answers!, on a sheet of paper?

Could you tape or video the questions and answers? If you pull this off, what a deeply personal and treasured heirloom for you, Dale! You could write a free lance article, and market it to various newspapers. Bee Hives were big stuff in Canada for a long time.

Gotta eat and head off to work, Bro.

No time to read and edit my long post to you---rats!

Take care, my friend. ---Brian Powell at bfpowell2003@yahoo.com

[irv]

Thanks again, Brian. Those are some great ideas and ones I will eventually follow up on.
Unfortunately, I don't think PSA, or even SGC will be attending the Toronto Fall Expo?
I was at the spring expo and the only grading company there was Beckett, and I don't think they were actually grading on site?

When I was going through my Father's Beehive's, I remember coming across one that had become unglued. I haven't done anything with it out of fear but I am curious what they used back in the day to actually glue these down.

I would love nothing more than to get mine graded but I know it would cost me a fortune, if they did, based on the size of the slabs required.
Right now our CDN dollar is in the tank, and with shipping, and every other expense that might be involved with them being graded, I am sure it would cost more than what the cards are worth? Being in Canada puts me at a disadvantage, sadly.

I like your idea of asking my Father questions. He is very long winded and likes to talk so it might be a daunting task, however, lol, but I think I will ask him some of your questions as I like that idea very much, as I am sure he will as well.

Thanks again, Brian.
I will look into purchasing your book, but anytime I have tried to send a cheque, it usually creates problems. You don't have Pay Pal, do you?

Dale

[Beansballcardblog]

Dale,

Here are scans of the two Beehives that I got graded:

img822 by kekinsley, on Flickr

img823 by kekinsley, on Flickr

Unfortunately, Beckett graded items do not scan well. The plastic is thicker so that's why they look so bad. I even did it in a dark room. A little frustrating but it is what it is. Also, they are actually slightly bigger than the surface of my scanner. That's why the pics appear cut off.

I did pick them up at a local show. We have shows in our area most weekends but the one that I attend most frequently as a regular seller that has nothing but hockey (he's originally from Ontario) and he had them. They were the only two. I think they said they were his brother's at one time, if I remember correctly.

Andrew Shaw was a nice guy when I met him. For some reason I expected he wouldn't be, but I'm glad that I was wrong. I actually have a (online) collecting friend in Ontario that's buying and sending me some Canadian stamps. I'm going to send a TTM request to him and see how it goes.

I also scanned the pages below that were in the first Beckett Vintage Collector magazine. This was the first that I learned about the Beehives and where most of my limited knowledge comes from.

img824 by kekinsley, on Flickr
img825 by kekinsley, on Flickr
img826 by kekinsley, on Flickr
img827 by kekinsley, on Flickr

Have a great evening!
-kin

Originally Posted by irv

I'd love to see them, WVU, that would be great!

I am glad my Father kept those envelopes and the advertising piece. I have seen a few envelopes for sale but never the advertising piece itself. I thought there were only 5 but there are 6 in total.

I'm curious where you purchased your Beehives, was it in the State of Texas? If so, that is interesting, considering their lack of popularity and the fact they made it all the way down there.

Glad to hear Beckett grades them. I have been told Beckett is a great resource for info and prices. Guess I should join to see for myself.

Dale

EDIT: Just read some of your blog, Kin. Very interesting. I am looking forward to reading more. I see your a Andrew Shaw fan. This was 2 years ago. My son was fortunate to play a game of shinny with Andrew Shaw. He was a great guy!!

[irv]

Originally Posted by wvu_class_of_2001

Dale,

Here are scans of the two Beehives that I got graded:

img822 by kekinsley, on Flickr

img823 by kekinsley, on Flickr

Unfortunately, Beckett graded items do not scan well. The plastic is thicker so that's why they look so bad. I even did it in a dark room. A little frustrating but it is what it is. Also, they are actually slightly bigger than the surface of my scanner. That's why the pics appear cut off.

I did pick them up at a local show. We have shows in our area most weekends but the one that I attend most frequently as a regular seller that has nothing but hockey (he's originally from Ontario) and he had them. They were the only two. I think they said they were his brother's at one time, if I remember correctly.

Andrew Shaw was a nice guy when I met him. For some reason I expected he wouldn't be, but I'm glad that I was wrong. I actually have a (online) collecting friend in Ontario that's buying and sending me some Canadian stamps. I'm going to send a TTM request to him and see how it goes.

I also scanned the pages below that were in the first Beckett Vintage Collector magazine. This was the first that I learned about the Beehives and where most of my limited knowledge comes from.


Have a great evening!
-kin

Thanks, Kin. Great pics and article!

Did you purchase your Beehives already graded or did you yourself get them graded? If so, can you remember the cost?

Yeah, Andrew Shaw is definitely nicer off ice than he is off, but I assume most are, hopefully?

It was a fun day watching my son be able to skate/play hockey with him. He not only taught the kids a few things, he inspired them to be better, stay in school and get good grades, etc. It was a great experience for my son and one he'll likely never forget.

Thanks again, Kin.

Take care

Dale.

[irv]

I have been getting a few inquiries lately about my Beehives, and although, at this point, I don't really plan on selling them, I am curious if there is any new updates/news about them?

Also wondering, if someone is a member, if they'd mind checking out what this lot sold for, if if did, back in 2011, for me?
https://sports.ha.com/itm/hockey-car...a/7037-80096.s

Thanks

[spec]

$65,725 including buyer's penalty.

[irv]

Originally Posted by spec

$65,725 including buyer's penalty.

I was ready to say WOW, but considering this completed set, with all the extras, is super rare, I guess I shouldn't be too surprised.

The Cy Wentworth, if it's of him in a CDN's sweater, is worth over $8,000 alone.

A recent auction of 89, which a guy PM'd me about thinking they were mine, just sold for $777.00 so they are receiving some love/attention, which is good to hear.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/HUGE-lot-of-1...sAAOSwx2dYCLzm

Thanks for providing the info, Spec. I appreciate it very much!

[Billwinkle]

Hi Irv.

I just looked over your list of Beehives and I can see you used the Beehive Museum website to compile your list. Most of the photos on that site came from 2 or 3 collectors and even that sight does not have a complete list of all available photos. This is truly one of the most difficult sets to complete. I am in the process of putting all my Beehives on a flicker account. I live in the country so the internet service is real slow( a little faster than dial up ). If you lookup billsmart2 on flicker you will see it. I have a very complete list of all known Beehives as well as the unconfirmed ones along with most of the extra items such as the planes, order forms, tokens cans and collars, etc. This is a far more extensive set than most people realize. If you need any help just ask. I have over 800 of the 1023 hockey players known to exist as well as olympians, airplanes, who's who books etc. I also have over 200 doubles I am willing to trade