Alan Hager - not off-topic exactly, just weird . . .

[uffda51]

Someone mentioned Alan Hager in another thread and wondered where he was. Not to dig up old news, but if you google him you get references to some old lawsuits, etc., but also this:

http://pennyondime.com/

Apparently he "discovered" this weird double struck coin, "certified" it with his grading service and will be happy to sell it to you for $10 million (!) since the odds of finding another are 15 billion to one. There are no uncles or grandfathers involved in the tale but there is an "auntie!!?!?"

But that's not the weird part.

It's the Youtube video. It features Neil Sedaka (!) singing "Killing Me Softly" (you assume at first the url is simply wrong) before finally getting around to showing you the coin . . .and showing you the coin . . .and showing you the coin . . . while Neil drones on. Almost ten minutes. I couldn't go the distance. Don't try this if you have epilepsy or diabetes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bj4jXhIi9W0

Why mess around with trimmed Topps cards when you can sell a penny for $10 million?

Made it through the whole thing with the help of the fast forward button.

[Anthony S.]

Coin porn.

[rdwyer]

I still have my autographed book "Comprehensive Price Guide to Rare Baseball cards 1886 to present" by Alan Hagar. It's worth nothing now.

[bh3443]

I left a comment and got a reply in seconds!
He came to one of my shows and passed out hundreds of his "6 sport" book!
Dennis Purdy's article: "Alan Hager: A modern day buffalo hunter" was the biggest public bashing I've ever seen!
About Hager's book, Purdy said it was pretty, but then again so are some whores!
Purdy claimed he had dozens of more pages of dirt he did not published, calling them "the Paul Harvey pages", and I'd love to see them!

I have not heard Hager's name in decades but this was a great flashback!
Thanks for bringing a smile to the sick!

[GrayGhost]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMQBV...eature=related

Yet another video from that bizarre situation.

I remember seeing Hager at a few shows too with his silly price guide.

[bh3443]

Ghost (my favorite FB movie!) that was a creepy video! You wonder if the dude sleeps with his coins!
I've heard of single guys that refer to their collection as family, but this is insane. He loves his error coin!

[barrysloate]

I used the fast forward button too. What was the point of that video? Was I supposed to get aroused?

[bh3443]

Barry, didn't Hager invent the holder that PSA uses? He holds pattern on it, I believe its called the arrowhead holder.
And a quote from his big book, "Like most movers and shakers, Alan is prone to controversy".......
Please comment on that!

[barrysloate]

I do remember he was among the first to promote graded coins, and I've heard he has some kind of patent on the slabs, but I can't confirm. And the cent on a dime planchet (or vice versa) is a rare error but they are documented in the Red Book. The listed value for one in the 2009 edition is $1500.

[D. Bergin]

I actually just found my 1995 6 Sport Guide by Hager I was given at a show way back when.

The price guide was useless but it actually came in handy as a reference guide for a lot of non-baseball sports cards that didn't get a lot of coverage at the time, including many foriegn issues.

[slidekellyslide]

I used to collect coins and I'd often post to the rec.collecting.coins usenet group. I quickly learned that if you said anything bad about Hager that he or his wife would send emails threatening a lawsuit. Here's a link that details the lawsuit:

http://www.swcgs.com/ASA_v_ANA.html

His lawsuit actually described a usenet group as a "collecting club" sanctioned by the ANA! HILARIOUS!!!....I'm not sure how I avoided being named...I guess I was just lucky.

[barrysloate]

Dan- do you know the resolution of that suit?

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Dan- do you know the resolution of that suit?

I think it was settled out of court, but I don't really recall because as my interest in coins was waning so was my participation in RCC.

[uffda51]

Originally Posted by rdwyer

I still have my autographed book "Comprehensive Price Guide to Rare Baseball cards 1886 to present" by Alan Hagar. It's worth nothing now.

I also have an autographed copy. I have never seen a book, in any field, so full of spelling and syntax errors.

[uffda51]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I do remember he was among the first to promote graded coins, and I've heard he has some kind of patent on the slabs, but I can't confirm. And the cent on a dime planchet (or vice versa) is a rare error but they are documented in the Red Book. The listed value for one in the 2009 edition is $1500.

So if the "book" value of this coin is $1500, how would we describe the asking price of $10 million? Aggressive? Inflated? Optimistic? Ahead of its time?

[Mark]

It's surely a proof version of the error. Worth billions.

[tbob]

Originally Posted by uffda51

I also have an autographed copy. I have never seen a book, in any field, so full of spelling and syntax errors.

Bruce, I agree, it was awful. Not just a couple of typos but horrible grammar and a multitude of spelling errors. The ironic thing is that the values of the cards, when Hager published his book, were ridiculous but after the great card explosion and escalating prices, many of his valuations are now correct, 15 years or so later. I bought a copy of his book on ebay for $10 just to have a momento of an era gone by.

[barrysloate]

Bruce- when it comes to pennies minted on dime planchets, you have to throw the book away.

[Anthony S.]

Does he throw in Neil Sedaka for the $10 million or do you just get the coin?

[barrysloate]

Anthony- I was once driving up the East Side Drive in Manhattan and a beautiful Rolls Royce was cruising along next to me. I looked in the car and who was driving but Neil Sedaka. True story.

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by uffda51

So if the "book" value of this coin is $1500, how would we describe the asking price of $10 million? Aggressive? Inflated? Optimistic? Ahead of its time?

Sounds like it would fit in nicely as a featured Buy It Now item on ebay.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

Sounds like it would fit in nicely as a featured Buy It Now item on ebay.

Sounds like it's part of a carefully crafted IRA (Immediate Retirement Account.)

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by rdwyer

I still have my autographed book "Comprehensive Price Guide to Rare Baseball cards 1886 to present" by Alan Hagar. It's worth nothing now.

Is there anything worthwhile in the book or is it just a fluff piece? Always wondered if there was some good information even with his rep.

[uffda51]

The color photo images of the cards are actually quite good. We have much better checklist info and relevant price guide info today.

[bh3443]

The few times I met him he was very nice and cordial. His book was the highest quality printing at the time and his grading/values theories were interesting. We had pleasant conversations and Alan knew his stuff.

Of course it was later on I heard stories that seemed out of character.
Seriously, I don't know anyone he supposedly screwed over.

Is there anyone in our fine community that had bad dealings with him?
Or, is it his methods people object to?

On another note, his asistant was very bright when it came to cards/coins and his wife was royalty from a country I can't recall.

[rdwyer]

Hagar's next book:

What they don't want you to know about coin grading and graded Mark McQuire rookie cards.

[Comiskey]

I have heard his name come up multiple times over the last couple of years, but I have never really heard what he did? I am assuming he was a con man, but was there anything specific that he did to ruin his name?

Jeff

[rdwyer]

Alan Hagar slabbed thousands of over graded coins with his company ASA Accugrade. He also slabbed thousands of Mark McQuire rookie cards. He sued multiple coin dealers years back and lost, claiming they defamed him. All around con man and bad name for any industry.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by rdwyer

Alan Hagar slabbed thousands of over graded coins with his company ASA Accugrade. He also slabbed thousands of Mark McQuire rookie cards. He sued multiple coin dealers years back and lost, claiming they defamed him. All around con man and bad name for any industry.

Is there anyone the Hager's haven't sued?

[Howe’s Hunter]

there was supposed to be a big show in Omaha, so drove from Lincoln to there, it only to find three dealers set up. Seemed something had gone wrong there, so all the dealers drove the 50 miles to Lincoln and set up shop in the lobby of a shopping center. At that time, I was trying to get a back of each of the 16 brands of T206s, and he had several I didn't have, including stories of how Lenox cards were sold only in New Orleans, Old Mill sold only in Memphis, EpdG really were from Havana and were basically smuggeled in to the country, etc. Walked away thinking "this guy has published a book, and doesn't know as much as me?"

[cardinalcollector]

I believe this Ebay seller is Alan Hager. It looks like his stuff anyway.

http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI...jacollectibles

I bought his book for about $50 when it came out. I was not an expert in vintage at the time, but the errors and typos were very apparent to me.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by stuckinomaha

epdg really were from havana and were basically smuggeled in to the country

[uffda51]

I only bought a few cards from his auctions. Most of them failed to cross over.
I got my money back after lots of haggling.



This one now resides in an SGC Authentic holder. It was graded an ASA 8, although there were no oversize slabs at the time, so you got the card in a CardSaver sleeve, along with with a printed label. Pretty hard to tell if the card measures short when there is no slab to bounce around in. Over time, ASA's crediblity became on a par with that of PRO.

One of Hager's claims was that there are either one or two complete sets of Darby Chocolates known. Dennis Purdy offered $1000, if I recall correctly, to anyone who could produce a complete set. No takers yet.

[tbob]

Originally Posted by uffda51

One of Hager's claims was that there are either one or two complete sets of Darby Chocolates known. Dennis Purdy offered $1000, if I recall correctly, to anyone who could produce a complete set. No takers yet.

One of the problems with his book was that Hager assigned values to cards which were not known to exist. He also assigned values to cards which did not (do not) exist in the higher grade conditions.

[paul]

The basic problem is that he wrote the entire book for the purpose of inflating the value of his inventory.

[Bob Lemke]

I regret that I never kept a copy of the issue of 1980s Barron's magazine that had a lengthy Hager interview. As I recall he admitted to a number of downright fraudulent activities in the coin field. I've never even had any luck googling Hager/Barron's to try to find the article, although I haven't tried in 5+ years.

He loves to sue people, but when you win a judgement against him, good luck collecting. Krause once obtained a decent four-figure judgment against him but never saw a dime. We "caught" him at a San Francisco show and got a sheriff's deputy to try to collect the judgment out of his inventory, but he slithered out on a technicality and by the time it was cleared up, Hager was nowhere to be found.

His wife royalty? Diane Hager is only a royal pain in the ass. They are truly a match made in hell.

[bigtrain]

I believe you may be correct that he is "gotja collectibles". They are out of Sanford, Florida. Last I heard of Hager, he was in Longwood, which is just a few miles from Sanford. The name "gotja" is a bad joke.

[aaroncc]

Still have a Joe Louis from one of his Auctions. Its the same 1935 Pattreiouex Joe Louis card on the front cover of the 1997 Sixsport.

[bh3443]

Thanks for sharing this pic of the 6-sport!
The fine members of net54 are helping me fight my illness with these great threads regarding the various controversies of our beloved hobby. I enjoy the posts that mark our history.
Anyone that has Dennis Purdy's Vintage Magazine with the Hager article please post your comments or p/m me your comments.
Anyone know what Dennis Purdy's doing these days? I'd love to read his extra pages regarding the Hager article. Dennis referred to these pages as the "Paul Harvey pages!"
Now that were on a roll, anyone recall the Vermont Cards fiasco of the mid-80's? Thanks all, and have a great weekend.

[thekingofclout]

Originally Posted by cardinalcollector

I believe this Ebay seller is Alan Hager. It looks like his stuff anyway.

http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI...jacollectibles

I bought his book for about $50 when it came out. I was not an expert in vintage at the time, but the errors and typos were very apparent to me.

Here is GOTJA Collectibles past eBay's User Names. Take notice of the Third one down...

The box below contains the User IDs that this member has used on eBay.

eBay Member User ID History

User ID Effective Date End Date

gotjacollectibles Feb-10-09 Present


treasuregalleryinc Jul-07-06 Feb-10-09


ah-collectibles Dec-04-00 Jul-07-06


****************@hotmail.com May-31-00 Dec-04-00



eBay hides parts of User IDs with "*" to protect member privacy.

[slidekellyslide]

That is definitely Hager's ebay ID.

Some of the things included in his lawsuits were hilarious too. He even included as part of his suit against the ANA and RCC that a member of RCC had called his wife a "screaming fishwife". I don't know what that means, but it still makes me laugh.

[barrysloate]

Dan- I guess you figured out it wasn't a compliment.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Alan Hager did invent, or at least claimed to and received a patent for, the first "slab" as we know it.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4979619.html

[tbob]

Interesting. I wonder if the card grading companies have to pay royalties to Hager or if subsequent patents were filed when the slabs were "modernized" and altered. Note that the slab Hager patented allows the card to "move around." Sounds like the one PSA used.

[DJR]

If I recall correctly, this is the same person that filed for bankruptcy in 2000:

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...06_1_charles-f

I tried to do a search for the bankruptcy filing but was unable to relocate. Florida is the perfect state for this duo.

If any attorneys have access to legal databases, please post the findings.

keywords:
alan c. hager linda florida bankrupt bankruptcy (and from the orlando sentinel news article, it looks like the county can be limited to just a handful of possibilities)

[aaroncc]

Originally Posted by tbob

Interesting. I wonder if the card grading companies have to pay royalties to Hager or if subsequent patents were filed when the slabs were "modernized" and altered. Note that the slab Hager patented allows the card to "move around." Sounds like the one PSA used.

I think this ad explains how he sold licenses, and how the process worked.

[barrysloate]

Do any of these twelve licensed companies exist today?

[aaroncc]

I believe CSA is still around. Not sure how much business they have.

http://www.csacards.com/about_csa.htm

[Peter_Spaeth]

The good old early to mid 90s, brings back memories of SCD ads for raw mint cards by Brigandi and Steve Timmons; Mike Wheat catalogs; Greg Manning Auctions; Teletrade.