O/T: The Day The Music Died

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Posted By: James Feagin

Today is the 50th anniversary of the premature passing of Buddy Holly, Ritchie Valens and the Big Bopper. I was not alive for the event, but understand its significance. Without Holly, there is no Beatles. R.I.P to three music legends. Thanks for this brief off topic post on a vintage baseball card forum

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Posted By: barrysloate

Hi James- you're a day early. It's actually Feb 3, 1959. I'm sure it will be big news tomorrow.

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Posted By: James Feagin

Well, about 12 hours early

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Posted By: Bill Stone

I have always wanted to go to the Surf Ballroom in Clear Lake, Iowa for an Anniversary Winter Dance Party --this would have been the year.

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Posted By: Ricky Y

I always sort of get misty eyed whenever I hear True Love Ways...

Ricky Y

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Posted By: Scott Sarian

Somewhat easy trivia....

What other music legend was supposed to be on the plane with those three that night?

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Posted By: barrysloate

Waylon Jennings...but I cheated.

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Posted By: Scott Sarian

It must not have been too easy then, if I could stump Barry!

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Posted By: Bill Stone

I don't think the Big Bopper was supposed to be on the plane -Waylon Jennings gave up his seat to the Big Bopper. I saw the play in London and got one of the programs for the concert and I seem to remember the play included that change of plans in it.

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Posted By: Chris Counts

Ricky,

I agree with you about "True Love Ways." What a great ballad. As far as I'm concerned, both Holly and Valens were extraordinary musical talents. I'll bet the radio stations will be playing Don McLean's "American Pie" all day tomorrow ...

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Posted By: Rob

Wasn't Dion supposed to be on that plane?

Also didn't Bobby Vee replace Buddy Holly on that tour?

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Buddy Holly.....Richie Valenzuela.....Jay Perry Richardson (the Big Bopper).....put their trust in
a young inexperienced pilot on a snowy stormy day in Iowa 50 years ago. I was 20 years old,
and have always wondered "what would have been....if the had lived ?


ROCK-n-ROLL....was really first nationally accepted 5 years before that tragic event........

The movie "Blackboard Jungle" theme song "Rock Around the Clock" in 1954, by Bill Halley and
the Comets started it all.


T-Rex TED

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Posted By: barrysloate

Q104.3, which is in fact the most listened to classic rock station in the country (I have it on for most of every day), has been playing "American Pie" daily, but tomorrow they will invariably include a story.

Last Friday was the 40th anniversary of the Beatles' rooftop concert, which they played in its near entirety (not the full 42 minutes).

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Posted By: barrysloate

Ted- I thought about that too. The Beatles did numerous Holly songs ("Words of Love" among the nicer ones), but Holly never lived to know the Beatles. Rock was so much in its infancy in 1959 that he missed just about everything, but he led the way.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Before 1954 and "Rock Around the Clock", "rock music" was sort of an "undercurrent" style of music.

Rock Around the Clock caught on with a lot of teenagers regionally. When the movie hit the big screen, it was an
amazing success nationwide.

Then Rock came out of the woodwork....by 1956 the following groups were exciting us kids with some great sounds......

The Penguins....Earth Angel
The Platters....many songs
The Everly Brothers.....Wake Up Little Suzy
The Dell Vikings
Little Anthony and the Imperials
Little Richard
Sam Cook
etc, etc, etc.


T-Rex TED

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Posted By: Dave

The worst part of the whole thing was Buddy was mad at Waylon(Buddy's bass player) for not going on the plane and Buddy said to him "i hope you freeze your ass off on that bus" Waylon shot back with i hope your plane crashes"!!!!
So you can imagine what Waylon had to live with.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Blackboard Jungle was a terrific movie, and a rallying cry for mid-50's youth.

And I'm a huge Everly Brothers fan, especially "Cathy's Clown."

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Posted By: Rob D.

From snopes.com:

Over the years, the list of people who "gave up a seat" on this ill-fated flight has grown to rival the list of persons claiming to have been invited to Sharon Tate's "quiet evening at home" the night the Manson family struck. Although Buddy Holly initially may have asked around to find other tour members willing to share the cost of chartering a plane (as Dion DiMucci claims), the only persons who committed to fly on it with Holly were his two fellow band members, Tommy Allsup and Waylon Jennings. J.P. Richardson, who was coming down with the flu, managed to talk Jennings into giving up his seat so that he could arrive at the next tour stop early and have a little extra time to visit a doctor. Ritchie Valens spent the evening trying to convince Allsup to give up his seat on the plane, but Allsup, who needed to pick up a registered letter waiting for him in Fargo, demurred. Finally, just as Allsup was about to leave the Surf City ballroom for the airport, he gave in and agreed to flip a coin with Valens for a spot on the airplane. (Unlike the way this scene is depicted in the Ritchie Valens film biography La Bamba, Holly did not charter a plane for "headliners only" or arrange the last-minute coin toss between Valens and Allsup, nor did that coin toss take place outside in a snowfall just as the plane was boarding.) Valens won the coin toss, and Allsup stayed behind to ride the bus to the next destination. Thus Waylon Jennings and Tommy Allsup were the only two persons who truly "gave up a seat" on Buddy Holly's final flight.

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Posted By: sporteq

I`ve been very privilege to know the Richie Valen`s family. His sister is the sweetest person you can every meet. I know his brother in-law pretty well. Very humble family .. god bless them!!

RIP .. RICHIE,BUDDY HOLLY & BIG BOPPER!!

aL

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Posted By: J.McMurry

the local amateur stage group here in Greenville is doing a production called "Clear Lake", where they re-create that last "winter dance party" show, it's playing for 9 dates and is already sold out.

I had a similar brush with history as I was at the last concert given by the original Lynyrd Skynyrd band, before they went down in a plane crash in 1977.

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Posted By: barrysloate

It's a tragic story of how a simple twist of fate intervened in the lives of several unfortunate people. If Richie Valens loses the coin flip, he could still be alive today.

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Posted By: Bob

Yes, Bobby Vee replaced Buddy on the rest of the tour as I recall.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Did Lynyrd Skynyrd's plane crash the night of the concert you saw?

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Posted By: David McDonald

Apparently the Intellectual Property Brigade has decimated what's available of live Buddy Holly on YouTube but I did find this:


Following is an audio demo tape of "Oh Donna" by Richie Valens which is a little different than the one I used to hear:


I was 8 years old and in the fourth grade when "the music died" so I wasn't quite yet a rock'n'roller but I recall hanging around on the sidewalk with worldly 12 year olds who would doo-wop the latest hits. I've been a fifties music junkie ever since.

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Posted By: barrysloate

David- I've found some decent Buddy Holly material on Youtube (your links show up as red x's on my screen). Fact is, he had a very short career. Save a few TV appearances, there may not be much more available footage.

There are Richie Valens performances on Youtube also, one of him performing La Bamba, and one of Donna (his two big hits).

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Posted By: LenK

if you're ever passing through Lubbock, Texas, check out the Buddy Holley museum....well worth the stop

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

was when Hendrix croaked. It would have been very interesting with the sound equipment today to see just what kind of noise he would have made.

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Posted By: Glyn Parson

My Own personal day the music died will always be August 9, 1995.

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Posted By: barrysloate

That would be Jerry Garcia.

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Posted By: J.McMurry

Barry,

Yes I believe so. they did the show in Greenville, got on the plane to fly to the next gig, but the plane crashed killing three members. I still have my ticket stub.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Bet that's a valuable stub.

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Posted By: J.McMurry

Nah, I doubt it.

Skynyrd certainly is not at the legend status of Buddy Holly, they just had similar fates. Hope I didnt come off as trying to imply otherwise.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Speaking of untimely deaths due to airplane crashes.....let's not forget Jim Croce.

No way of forgetting...."Time in a Bottle" and "Bad, Bad Leroy Brown"....circa 1973.


TED Z

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Posted By: Glyn Parson

You are right Barry.

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Posted By: whitehse

Speaking of tragic music people passing in aircraft...I was at the last concert of Stevie Ray Vaughn at Alpine Valley theatre in East Troy Wisconsin. I still don't know why they allowed helicopters to fly that weekend with all the fog in the valley!!

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Posted By: Paul

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-r616M7foo

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Posted By: Marty Ogelvie

Ted,

Groce is one of my favorites. Including the two you mentioned; here are some favs; I've got a Name, Operator, If I could say I love you in a song, You don't mess aroudn with Jim, etc. His wife has a piano bar in San Diego (worth visiting).

The way I remember it, Groce was doing a make up concert at a small venue in Texas.. the concert had been cancelled earlier in the year for whatever reason and he was adamant about making up that concert.. could be just folk lore.

Marty

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Posted By: Bill Stone

Rickey Nelson was another artist who died in a plane crash. His plane crashed on December 31, 1985. Ironically the last song he performed on stage before he died was Buddy Holly's Rave On and as I understand, the last song he recorded in the studio was a cover of Buddy Holley's True Love Ways.

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Posted By: Rob

Otis Redding and Patsy Cline dies in plane crashes as well. Both great in their own genres!!

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Posted By: Rhys

I have always thought Buddy Holly gets a fraction of the respect he is due for his influence on those that followed him, and Richie Valens for breaking down Hispanic Stereotypes in his day. It always seems like the true visionaries and talents in any profession or art form are taken too young. To tie this into cards, is there any doubt that Lou Gehrig would probably be the best baseball player of all time if he had lived and played for another 7-8 years? More often than not they are the types of people (like Holly, Valens and Gehrig) who we really could use more of on this earth.

Going back to my Fathers generation, let us not forget Glenn Miller who died in a plane crash during WW2. And for those of us who are a bit younger (not nearly as significant though) I remember the day Randy Rhoads died around 1982. He was a very influential Hard Rock Guitarist who died in a Helicopter crash.

If I ever win the lottery I am going to buy a pair of Buddy Holly's original glasses, those would be sweet in a display!

Rhys

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

He was a "Giant" (excuse the reference) in the acting world at the young age of 24,
when he died on Sept 30, 1955.

You talk of "what could of been" ?

He would have celebrated his 78th birthday this week.


TRIVIA ?
Four actors in Rebel Without a Cause all died untimely deaths....can you name them ?


TED Z

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Posted By: James Feagin

Off-topic to the off-topic, but according to Feagin family legend, my grandpa on my dad's side had a one-nighter with Patsy Cline in the early 50s. Apparently met at a bar in California.

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Posted By: Jim VB

James Dean

Natalie Wood

Sal Mineo





#4 - Please define "untimely". Several others from this film (William Hopper, Rochelle Hudson, Edward Platt) died in their mid to late 50's. Since I turn 54 this year, I classify all of them as "untimely."

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Posted By: Peter Thomas

Dean, Wood & Mineo and some else

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Reiterating the above TRIVIA ?

Four actors in Rebel Without a Cause all died untimely deaths....can you name them ?


So far....James Dean....Natalie Wood....Sal Mineo....have been guessed.

One more to go....this actor (actress) died untimely in their 30's.

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Posted By: Jim VB

Had to research the last one.


Nick Adams

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Posted By: Bob

Jim Morrison, love him or hate him was a rock god. The circumstances of his passing were a mystery and his legend lives on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baLDbZds_4k&feature=related

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

JIM VB

Good research, you got it....Nick Adams.


TBOB

Great going....I'm surprised that it took this long in this thread before Jim Morrison was mentioned.



TED Z

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Posted By: Bill Stone

One personal note --I grew up in Burbank, California and although Natalie Wood was 7 years older( her sister was a year younger than me) we both had the same school teacher. While I was in regular grade school my teacher was also teaching Natalie Wood at the special studio school. She used to tell us stories about her and I have to still be amazed that all those actors in Rebel Without a Cause were so close by and many Hollywood stars could be seen at the grocery store, Griffith Park and the department store.

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Posted By: Joann

Not to get lost in this thread is the fact that McLean wrote what has practially become an anthem to memorialize Holly. "American Pie" is a classic for all classics and probably has kept Holly from becoming a somewhat obscure musical footnote, familiar only to true rock music buffs. At least AP keeps Holly firmly planted in the awareness of the more casual rock fan. And what a great, great song - heck the song itself is as much legend as the legend.

J

(And on a somewhat creepy note - I fly fairly often and it's not unusual for me to actually be on a flight different from the one I ticketed. Whenever this happens I always find myself wondering which story I will become, the person that got on the doomed plane or the person that missed or otherwise did not get on the doomed plane. Just can't help myself, no matter how many times I end up rescheduled.)