S74 White series silks

[rsst206]

HI Fellow collectors,
Do any of you have scans of the following White Series S74 Silks?
I am hoping with a back.

Peaches Graham Cubs
Bugs Raymond Giants
Doc Scanlan Superbas
Harry Smith Rustlers
Steinfeldt Cubs

best regards
Ron

[BobC]

Ron,

There are no white version S74-1 silks of:

Graham - Cubs
Raymond - Giants
Scanlan - Superbas

As for Harry Smith with the Rustlers, that is a typo they have left in the Standard Catalog for as long as I can remember. It should actually be for Tony Smith with the Rustlers, even though it was Harry Smith that actually played for the Rustlers. For whatever reason they printed white version S74-1 silks of Tony Smith with both the Superbas and Rustlers, though Tony Smith never played in Boston during his short-lived major league career. They made the same mistake in the Standard Catalog checklist for the colored version S74-2 silks where they list a Happy Smith playing with the Superbas. In reality it is Tony Smith shown playing for the Superbas that actually exists in the colored version of the silks.

As for Steinfeldt with the Cubs, I think you really meant to ask for a scan of Steinfeldt with Rustlers. White version silks of Steinfeldt with the Cubs do exist, it is Steinfeldt with the Rustlers that does not exist in the S74-1 white version silks. Steinfeldt played for Chicago in 1910, when the white version silks were supposedly first issued. He then started and played a very nominal 19 games (his last season in the majors) with the Boston Rustlers in 1911, the year the colored version S74-2 silks were supposedly issued. Steinfeldt colored version S74-2 silks also exist but, only with him shown playing for the Rustlers, which makes sense based on the years he played for the two different teams and the different years the white and colored version silks were supposedly issued.

I have ad-backed versions of the S74-1 white silks of Tony Smith with the Rustlers and Superbas, as well as an ad-backed silk of Steinfeldt with the Cubs. I don't have access to a scanner right now but, can post copies tomorrow if you'd like. I'm pretty confident you already have copies of these silks with the ad-backings attached though.

There is also a question as to the existence of a white version S74-1 silk for Tommy Leach, which I also believe does not exist but, is sometimes still listed in S74-1 white version silk checklists. It has always been my theory that the mistake for these several players supposedly existing as white version silks is due to S74-2 colored versions of these same players being printed on material that is basically the same color and type of material used for the S74-1 silks but, the cigarette brand name and factory designation at the top and bottom of the colored silks has frayed off. This would then make them look like S74-1 white version silks without the ad-back still attached. I would speculate that early creators of the S74-1 checklists mistook these severely frayed S74-2 silks for these several players as evidence that they were issued with advertising backs attached at some time. Not the case though and why the Standard Catalog checklist for S74-1 silks now lists these various white version silks for Graham - Cubs, Leach, Raymond, Scanlon and Steinfeldt - Rustlers as being of questionable existence. They actually don't exist.

BobC

[rsst206]

Thank you Bob,
Yes i missed the Leach on my request as one missing. But I am glad you confirmed it not being in the white series. i would love to see the Smith and
Steinfeldt when you have time.
best regards
Ron

[BobC]

Ron,

I'll get them scanned and post copies tomorrow but, a question for you. I know you have a heck of a silk collection yourself. I'm a bit surprised but, you really don't already have ad-backed copies of both Tony Smiths, one with the Rustlers and one with the Superbas, and a Steinfeldt with the Cubs?

I know the Tony Smith with the Rustlers is really really tough but, I didn't think Steinfeldt with the Cubs was that hard to find. Are you sure you're not confusing that with a Steinfeldt playing for the Rustlers ad-backed silk, which I believe does not exist in the white version silks at all? I've got three Steinfeldt-Cubs silks with the ad-backing still attached myself, so I know those can't be that tough to find. I'll scan what I have so you can see them tomorrow then.

Still, I thought I heard through the grapevine that you already had a complete set of all the ad-backed white silks, minus the 5 that don't actually exist. Without those 5 it leaves a total of 87 different players/silks that you should be able to find in the S74-1 white version with ads still attached then to have a complete set. I'd been stalled at 79 different myself for a few years till I was able to finally find a Carrigan a little earlier this year. Now I'm up to 80 different with the ads still attached, and down to 7 to go.

By the way, thanks for the initial post about silks. You rarely see anyone bring up S-74 silks in the forum at all. Nice change of pace from the usual postings and stuff everyone always talks about. And have you noticed how many other people have chimed in on this thread........? No wonder these silks are way undervalued in my opinion, they don't get a lot of love it seems.

BobC

[ValKehl]

Ron, here's a Steinfeldt:

[BobC]

Val,

Very nice, and a Red Sun back to boot! Very rare!

[rsst206]

Hi Val,
Thanks for posting the Steinfeldt. Bob you are correct I do have the Cubs version. It was the Rustlers version that I am missing that I have always assumed it was a checklist mistake. Besides the other checklist mistakes. I am only missing the Smith with the Rustlers and would love to see it.

Ron

[BobC]

Ron,

Here are scans of my Tony Smith white version, ad-backed S74-1 silks with both the Superbas and the Rustlers. I also included copies of the three ad-backed Steinfeldt - Cubs silks that I have, to go along with the one Val posted.

It sounds like you basically have all the ad-backed silks that are possible then, except for Tony Smith with the Rustlers. Good luck, this one I have is the only one I've ever seen.

BobC

[rsst206]

Bob
Awesome card!
Thank you for sharing
Ron

[BobC]

Ron,

Thanks.

My initial guess as to the rarity of a Tony Smith - Rustlers silk would be that after they produced some of them, they quickly realized they screwed up as it was supposed to be Harry Smith on the Superbas silks. So they probably just pulled them entirely from production and basically short-printed them.

BobC