Open letter to STAT and Christopher Morales

[sports-rings]

Michael, Now you are simply being obtuse. You are evidently not going to let facts get in the way of your crusade. You're going to have to continue your rants without further participation from me.

First off, I am thrilled that these posts are not on the SCD website, where editors can pick and choose what messages stay and which go.

So Bob, if you won't respond to my messages anymore, that's fine, I guess you too, will be putting your head in the sand and ignoring the role SCD played in helping Coach's Corner and Morales grow their business while they ripped off collectors in our hobby.

How dare you claim I am being obtuse. I asked you three times to let us know what you planned to do going forward to help the hobby. You continue to avoid the issue, avoid a response, and now your self-proclamation of no longer responding to my posts proves my intuition - You have no backbone and you should be ashamed of your attitude and your role in this mess. You could help but you have decided not too. Well done Bob, well done!

I value the opinion of the contributors here. Do others feel I am on a crusade and have I been obtuse? Have facts been presented and I'm wrong and owe Bob an apology?

[earlywynnfan]

I've been following this thread and have been staying out of it, but I feel it would help some members know what side some of us are on.

Bob, forgive me if I missed this somewhere in the seemingly endless thread: Have you done anything to stop the flow of fakes coming from CC? If not, do you plan to?

These seem to be the biggest questions posed to you, and to my aging eyes, they seem to be the questions you are trying very hard to avoid. If my interpretation is correct, I'm finding myself to be disappointed (again!) at a well-known and well-respected member of the sports memorabilia hobby.

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

[keithsky]

I have no side in this and just my opinion but I would think the employees current and past of SCD would not want to say anything was wrong with CC and admit it on NET54 even if they knew anything in fear that if the FBI ever takes down CC they would be questioned and involved and don't know if any of them would want that and why would you admit that on NET54. It would be the right thing to do and get the ball rollling if it hasn't yet to get the FBI to see why CC is still in business. I subsrcibed to SCD for 20 years and cancelled my subscription about 4 or 5 years ago when all the CC talk was going around. I refussed to support a magazine at the time that wasn't in the best interest of the collectors. So much negative stuff at the time about CC and no one there did anything. Just sad. I don't know Mr. Lemke so I have no opinion on what he did or didn't do or know. Can't jump on a guy if I don't know him. Just my opinion on this and I don't claim to be smart.

[Bob Lemke]

Finally, some succinct, thoughtful questions . . .

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Bob-
Who specifically had jurisdiction over the CC ads for all those years?
Whomever had the title of publisher.

Who approved the CC advertising?
The ad manager would have had the week-to-week contact with CC or any other advertiser.


Do you think or know if this person(s) was aware of what they were doing in regards to CC?
CC advertised for some years before they went rogue or were suspected of purveying an unusual volume of suspect items. I don't believe any of the ad managers had enough hobby expertise to cull the sheep from the lambs when dealing with hundreds of items in a given ad. I also believe that the people who had that position had enough integrity to raise red flags to the publisher if they suspected wrongdoing.


Can you speculate about the CSC ads now and why people who contact SCD seem to be getting a complete runaround. One day they are told CSC will be gone and poof a short time later they are back again.
I cannot. I have no regular contact with anybody at SCD. I think any perceived "runaround" regarding the current CSC ad is the result of the ad manager having been at the National.

Specific answers would be desirable.

If this isn't specific enough for you, please feel free to elaborate.

[Bob Lemke]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

I've been following this thread and have been staying out of it, but I feel it would help some members know what side some of us are on.

Bob, forgive me if I missed this somewhere in the seemingly endless thread: Have you done anything to stop the flow of fakes coming from CC? If not, do you plan to?

These seem to be the biggest questions posed to you, and to my aging eyes, they seem to be the questions you are trying very hard to avoid. If my interpretation is correct, I'm finding myself to be disappointed (again!) at a well-known and well-respected member of the sports memorabilia hobby.

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

I'm sorry if I haven't been clear enough. I have no plans to do anything to "stop the flow of fakes coming from CC." Why in the world would you assume that responsibility should fall on me?

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Bob Lemke

Christopher,

You've got me there. I see I posted that question in Oct., 2011.

Which brings up a point that is going to remain a constant in this thread. I may be a little vague about dates because I have no resources with which to pin down specifics of my career at Krause/F+W. I'm only relying on my increasingly muddled memories.

Your unauthorized use of copyrighted material did not, and does not, affect me; I was merely pointing out the irony.

To sum up the rest of your questions . . .
Yes, I am upset at the way in which you go about your self-appointed mission. That is, without regard to facts. You earned my enmity when you continually attacked my friend T.S. O'Connell without regard for the fact that as editor, he had no "jurisdiction" over advertising matters. You persisted even when I point that out to you. Your ham-handed personal attacks are now, and were then, unwarranted, yet you blithely persist with complete disregard for the facts.

Bob, I can respect your defense for your friend TS O'Connell. I would do the same thing for my friends Richard Simon, Shelly Jaffe and Danny Cariseo.

You can call what I do, and have done, self-appointed, or whatever you want to call it, Bob, that's your right.

Some people do and some people do nothing.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Bob Lemke

I'm sorry if I haven't been clear enough. I have no plans to do anything to "stop the flow of fakes coming from CC." Why in the world would you assume that responsibility should fall on me?

Shouldn't it be the responsibility of all hobbyists, Bob?

[packs]

Why not just be honest and say if an advertiser can come up with the money to run an ad SCD will print the ad.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by Bob Lemke

I have no plans to do anything to "stop the flow of fakes coming from CC."

Neither do I.

Unless I can think of some scheme that might actually work.

Wait! How about this? I sit in a darkened room, with a light shining on me, and a camcorder focused on my face. I then hold up screenshot after screenshot of CC's forgeries, while repeating over and over "The buyers of this crap are morons and idiots. The buyers of this crap are morons and idiots. The buyers of this crap are morons and idiots... "

Then I post the video on YouTube.

Coach's Corner, you are going down!

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Bob Lemke

Finally, some succinct, thoughtful questions . . .


If this isn't specific enough for you, please feel free to elaborate.

Some names perhaps, if you do have that info, that is what I meant by specific.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by packs

Why not just be honest and say if an advertiser can come up with the money to run an ad SCD will print the ad.

How sadly true.

[scyrkin]

Originally Posted by Bob Lemke

Christopher,

You've got me there. I see I posted that question in Oct., 2011.

Which brings up a point that is going to remain a constant in this thread. I may be a little vague about dates because I have no resources with which to pin down specifics of my career at Krause/F+W. I'm only relying on my increasingly muddled memories.

Your unauthorized use of copyrighted material did not, and does not, affect me; I was merely pointing out the irony.

To sum up the rest of your questions . . .
Yes, I am upset at the way in which you go about your self-appointed mission. That is, without regard to facts. You earned my enmity when you continually attacked my friend T.S. O'Connell without regard for the fact that as editor, he had no "jurisdiction" over advertising matters. You persisted even when I point that out to you. Your ham-handed personal attacks are now, and were then, unwarranted, yet you blithely persist with complete disregard for the facts.

Hi Bob,

I'm Steve Cyrkin, the publisher and community manager at AutographMagazine.com. I wanted to let you know that SCD/F&W gave us copies of the Morales interview and others, and permission to publish them, so their use by Chris Williams is authorized.

Steve

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Neither do I.

Unless I can think of some scheme that might actually work.

Wait! How about this? I sit in a darkened room, with a light shining on me, and a camcorder focused on my face. I then hold up screenshot after screenshot of CC's forgeries, while repeating over and over "The buyers of this crap are morons and idiots. The buyers of this crap are morons and idiots. The buyers of this crap are morons and idiots... "

Then I post the video on YouTube.

Coach's Corner, you are going down!

I'm not saying I agree with Chris, and I have no idea if his videos have had any effect. But if his efforts have stopped ONE buyer from purchasing from CC, then his approach seems to have a much better batting average than "I'm going to sit in my house like some High and Mighty Crabass doing absolutely nothing."

Ken

[David Atkatz]

Ken, when a prospective buyer emails or PMs me, or, indeed, posts on the board, asking for an opinion, I've always been happy to provide one.

I'm quite sure--and I know many here would agree--I've prevented many a buyer from being taken.

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by Bob Lemke

I'm sorry if I haven't been clear enough. I have no plans to do anything to "stop the flow of fakes coming from CC." Why in the world would you assume that responsibility should fall on me?

Hey, Bob, have you ever heard of Ken Sulik?? Nobody else has either. But many, many people have heard of you. You have a blog and have (or at least had) a column regularly published in "The Voice of the Hobby." I'm sure you've gotten years of pleasure and probably some decent financial renumeration from this hobby. Yet when it comes time to make a stand, point out the bad, help out the newbies, you pass the buck!

Who should the responsibility fall on??

Ken

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

But if his efforts have stopped ONE buyer from purchasing from CC, then his approach seems to have a much better batting average than "I'm going to sit in my house like some High and Mighty Crabass doing absolutely nothing."

Ken

+1

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

Hey, Bob, have you ever heard of Ken Sulik?? Nobody else has either. But many, many people have heard of you. You have a blog and have (or at least had) a column regularly published in "The Voice of the Hobby." I'm sure you've gotten years of pleasure and probably some decent financial renumeration from this hobby. Yet when it comes time to make a stand, point out the bad, help out the newbies, you pass the buck!

Who should the responsibility fall on??

Ken

+2

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Ken, when a prospective buyer emails or PMs me, or, indeed, posts on the board, asking for an opinion, I've always been happy to provide one.

I'm quite sure--and I know many here would agree--I've prevented many a buyer from being taken.

Atkatz is correct about that.

As a matter of fact, Atkatz opined freely and frequently on the Frank Prisco thread until that letter from the lawyer arrived, and we never heard from Atkatz again on that thread.

While Leon actually mockingly posted the letter on Net54 which came from Prisco's lawyer, Atkatz was never heard from again. While the other Net54 members continued to rally in support of Leon, and continued to opine about the inventory of Frank Prisco, we didn't read a peep from Atkatz. Big man in the hobby, David, lots of helping hands all around from you.

[shelly]

Hey, I thought 815 would never be beat. Keep it going guys when it hits a 1000 Leon can start a new thread.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Atkatz is correct about that.

As a matter of fact, Atkatz opined freely and frequently on the Frank Prisco thread until that letter from the lawyer arrived, and we never heard from Atkatz again on that thread.

While Leon actually mockingly posted the letter on Net54 which came from Prisco's lawyer, Atkatz was never heard from again. While the other Net54 members continued to rally in support of Leon, and continued to opine about the inventory of Frank Prisco, we didn't read a peep from Atkatz. Big man in the hobby, David, lots of helping hands all around from you.

You're full of shit, Chris. It's as simple as that. I've helped all who have asked--and never called one an "idiot," or "moron," or "not the sharpest tool in the shed."

And, BTW, prove that I ever received a letter from Prisco's lawyer, or STFU. And find a case--one single case--in which I ever refused to help anyone who asked me.

[David Atkatz]

Chris, you are, by far, the biggest hypocrite it has ever been my misfortune to encounter. Helping hands? How many times have you been asked here, to show how Jeter's signature has developed over time?

What did you show?

Nothing.

Have you ever posted a photo when a fellow board member has asked?

Nope.

"I'm not here to educate," you have stated, on many occasions.

So, what are you here for? Just to stir the shit?

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

You're full of shit, Chris. It's as simple as that. I've helped all who have asked--and never called one an "idiot," or "moron," or "not the sharpest tool in the shed."

And, BTW, prove that I ever received a letter from Prisco's lawyer, or STFU. And find a case--one single case--in which I ever refused to help anyone who asked me.

Thank you, Mr. Atkatz, your inflection speaks the truth.

[earlywynnfan]

CHILDREN!!! Enough already, you both stir the shit!! Take it outside and let the thread get back to what's important!!

Ken

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Thank you, Mr. Atkatz, your inflection speaks the truth.

My words speak the truth.

There is no inflection in the written word.

And, again, it's Dr. Atkatz to you.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

CHILDREN!!! Enough already, you both stir the shit!!

And so do you, Ken, so can the "holier than thou" crap.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

CHILDREN!!! Enough already, you both stir the shit!! Take it outside and let the thread get back to what's important!!

Ken

I wish we could take it outside, Ken. But at the same time, Ken, I've been asked numerous times not to take the bait, and I have done so out of respect for the Leon and members of Net54, but how much longer do you expect me to tolerate the personal remarks directed at me from Mr. Atkatz?

Just a few days ago, Mr. Atkatz referred to my friend Shelly with his felon comment. It was a comment that was uncalled for and yet not one member here confronted Mr. Atkatz about his felon comment. I was enraged when I read that comment, but again, out of respect for Leon and Net54 members, I held back. Then Richard comes back from vacation, defends Shelly about that comment and is criticized. What kind of crap is that!!! It was okay with the members of Net54 for Mr. Atkatz to make that felon comment about my friend Shelly, but it wasn't okay for Richard to defend Shelly. You have to be kidding me!!!

So we're suppose to tolerate and not take the bait when Atkatz makes a felon comment, but if we defend our friends for being attacked it's wrong??? Seriously?

[David Atkatz]

Shelly is a convicted felon, Mr. Williams. Get used to it.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Shelly is a convicted felon, Mr. Williams. Get used to it.

In the context that you used it, it was uncalled for.

Below is the quote and follow-up comment by Mr. Atkatz.

Originally Posted by shelly View Post
He did not kill, rape or sell drugs to anyone. He did what many of you know. He lied cheated and defrauded people.
Well... I guess he's a saint, then.

Nice to have a felon's take on this, though.

[David Atkatz]

It was most certainly appropriate, Mr Williams. Shelly was saying that Bill Mastro's crimes were not that serious. I simply pointed out that this judgement was coming from one who was convicted of those same--or similar--crimes.

"Goes to credibility," as they say in court.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

You're full of shit, Chris. It's as simple as that. I've helped all who have asked--and never called one an "idiot," or "moron," or "not the sharpest tool in the shed."

And, BTW, prove that I ever received a letter from Prisco's lawyer, or STFU. And find a case--one single case--in which I ever refused to help anyone who asked me.

Only you or Prisco's lawyer can prove the existence of the letter, David, but some things you just know without having to have proof. It is called circumstantial evidence.

And with your chicken approach to that thread, that is all the circumstantial evidence that I need; that is all the circumstantial evidence that the board needs. Every time I have brought up the letter, not one person has risen to defend you.

[David Atkatz]

How can anyone defend me, you idiot? It can only be proven that someone did receive a letter.

Why don't you get in touch with Prisco's lawer, and ask him? I'll tell you why. You don't want to know the answer. It would deny you the only thing you ever accuse me of!

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

How can anyone defend me, you idiot? It can only be proven that someone did receive a letter.

Why don't you get in touch with Prisco's lawer, and ask him? I'll tell you why. You don't want to know the answer. It would deny you the only thing you ever accuse me of!

Mr. Atkatz, ever hear of attorney-client privilege?

Do you think Prisco's attorney would actually tell me if SHE wrote a letter for her client?

Who is the idiot?

Apparently someone who never heard of attorney-client privilege.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Who is the idiot?

Still you, I'm afraid.

Whether or not she wrote a letter has nothing at all to do with attorney-client privilege. In fact she does not even have to disclose for whom a letter was written. (If, in fact, a letter ever was written.)

And, FYI, any letter written to a third party is not subject to attorney-client privilege. Only communications between an attorney and her client are.

Hence the name.

[keithsky]

David and Chris, Why don't you guys get each others email and fight about whatever it is on there between the two of you and quit dragging everyone down with your bickering. My God move on.

[shelly]

He did what many of you know. He lied cheated and defrauded people That comment was to other people saying he would get 7 years in prison I still do not think that what he did will get him that long of sentence that is why I said the above comment.
I don't need Richard, Chris or anyone else to defend me. I at least no what I did and what it meant to people that I really care about.. I just find it so difficult to think that you have no idea what a nasty vindictive person you are. I have no idea who made you so bitter but it is truly a shame, I know there are attorneys on here not one of them asked to be addressed as Esquire. My wife had a PhD she never asked to be called Doctor. I think that your students felt the same way that is why they had no respect for you professor .I feel it is really time for you to get a check up from a real Doctor. I know there is something truly wrong with you. You can call me a felon again and again there is not one person on this board that does not know that. You on the other hand will never be called anything but a complete and perfect ass.

[David Atkatz]

FYI, Shelly, I have never asked to be called "Doctor." My name is David, and I'm perfectly content for all to call me by my name.

But, if some moron here decides, for purely sarcastic purposes, to address me by title, rather than by name, then I prefer he use the correct title.

I worked hard enough to obtain it.

And Shelly, judging my students feelings for me by reading the postings of half-a-dozen--out of the literally thousands I have taught over my career--is simply asinine.

As far as my being a "complete and perfect ass," well, anything worth doing...

[shelly]

David, once again you fudge the truth. There are a dozen comments about you on the rate your professors website, not six as you say. I am sure you know there are a dozen but I guess half a dozen and a dozen are the same thing to you. 9 out of 12 rate you as a poor teacher and the comments are as negative as anyone can get. "Worst teacher since kindergarten" is just a sample of what the students say. Some students actually hated you. And the majority of teachers at your school only got 6 or 7 comments, so the number of comments you received is high for your school. And your overall score is 1.8 out of 4, as low a score as I saw for your school. You are rated at the bottom of the barrel.
You can now go find another felon in your failed attempts to lift your shattered ego. The "call me Dr Atkatz" is getting old.
Your communication with this felon is done.
Your response to this post will not be answered by me.
And yes, you are so complete and perfect an ass, we agree on that.
And one more thing about the Prisco lawyer letter. You are correct about attorney client privilege not covering the letter. But do you really think that Prisco's lawyer would answer Chris? What hallucination did you dream that up in? I can picture her helping Chris out, yeah, right, not in this lifetime.

[Bob Lemke]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

Hey, Bob, have you ever heard of Ken Sulik?? Nobody else has either. But many, many people have heard of you. You have a blog and have (or at least had) a column regularly published in "The Voice of the Hobby." I'm sure you've gotten years of pleasure and probably some decent financial renumeration from this hobby. Yet when it comes time to make a stand, point out the bad, help out the newbies, you pass the buck!

Who should the responsibility fall on??

Ken

I did my time as "hobby crime fighter" when I was editor and publisher, and even a bit later in a special series circa 2003 about counterfeit 1963 Bazookas, '52 Wheaties, etc., being sold on TV and by Sol Creamer and that "Paoutdoorman" (or some such) guy around Harrisburg.

Through the 1980s and early 1990s, I banned dozens of advertisers at a cost of tens of thousands of dollars of ad revenue.

I had the support of the hobby publishing giants who founded Krause Publications, and access to personnel and monetary resources.

Today I am retired, i.e., without such resources or the inclination to "clean up" the hobby. I don't keep up with hobby "dirt," other than reading about it on this and similar forums. I cannot speak intelligently about current crooks and crookedness. That is not how I choose to spend my time in retirement.

I don't owe "the hobby" anything.

Even Batman retired.

[mr2686]

Originally Posted by Bob Lemke

Even Batman retired.

Yes, but he kept his eye on Catwoman!

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by Bob Lemke

I did my time as "hobby crime fighter" when I was editor and publisher, and even a bit later in a special series circa 2003 about counterfeit 1963 Bazookas, '52 Wheaties, etc., being sold on TV and by Sol Creamer and that "Paoutdoorman" (or some such) guy around Harrisburg.

Through the 1980s and early 1990s, I banned dozens of advertisers at a cost of tens of thousands of dollars of ad revenue.

I had the support of the hobby publishing giants who founded Krause Publications, and access to personnel and monetary resources.

Today I am retired, i.e., without such resources or the inclination to "clean up" the hobby. I don't keep up with hobby "dirt," other than reading about it on this and similar forums. I cannot speak intelligently about current crooks and crookedness. That is not how I choose to spend my time in retirement.

I don't owe "the hobby" anything.

Even Batman retired.

Well stated Bob. I'm not sure why the attacks continue on here after you've answered every single question numerous times.

[Big Dave]

+ 10

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Well stated Bob. I'm not sure why the attacks continue on here after you've answered every single question numerous times.

Why? How else can Chris and Dick--and now Shelly--protect the hobby?

[David Atkatz]

Shelly, do a bit of research. Learn a bit about the concept of "self-selection," especially as it pertains to the accuracy of surveys.

[packs]

Sit the next few out man. This is getting to be too much.

[sports-rings]

Even Batman retired.

Bob, I've seen batman. I've admired those in the hobby who fought the fight and continue to do so. Sir, you're no batman.

[shelly]

Through the 1980s and early 1990s, I banned dozens of advertisers at a cost of tens of thousands of dollars of ad revenue.
Bob, can you name some of the people that you said you banned? I think that Robin and the rest of Gotham City would love to know. Correction made.

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by shelly

Through the 1980s and early 1990s, I banned dozens of advertisers at a cost of tens of thousands of dollars of ad revenue.
Bob, can you name some of the people that you said you banned? I think that Robin and the rest of Metropolis would love to know.

Not to nitpick, but that would be Gotham City, not Metropolis.

[Bob Lemke]

Originally Posted by shelly

Through the 1980s and early 1990s, I banned dozens of advertisers at a cost of tens of thousands of dollars of ad revenue.
Bob, can you name some of the people that you said you banned? I think that Robin and the rest of Gotham City would love to know. Correction made.

On the advice of counsel back then, we (almost) never announced when we banned an advertiser . . . he simply disappeared from our pages.

At the risk of getting somebody's name wrong 20 years later, or confusing two similar names, and in the absence of access to the "official list," I'm not going to attempt to do so now.

[RichardSimon]

Bob,
I am not going to dispute your contention about banning advertisers but I certainly remember the same bad guys advertising for years and years. I would sometimes scream at the ad page because the stuff was so revolting.
And I don't mean just CC.

[jgmp123]

I posted this in another forum, but thought this may be a good place for it as well, I received a response back from Tom and it sounds like hands are tied up over at SCD...I think that a contact in the Advertising/Sales dept would be best fit to answer the questions many want answered...I have reached out to Tom for a contact in the advertising department......

Thanks for your patience James,
As you might imagine, I heard plenty at the National Convention regarding CSC and its negative impact on SCD. I don't want them running, period, but alas my word is not the be-all, end all for the magazine when it comes to advertising. All of the CSC comments I am handing over all feedback to my ad manager and publisher to insist they are are not featured again. Thank you for your time.

Tom Bartsch
SCD