Open letter to STAT and Christopher Morales

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Posted By: <b>rich solis</b><p>Chris,<br />Why do you assume that the items that I sell come with coa's from Morales and Frangipani. There only issued by forenic examinors when there is a request otherwise a company coa is issued. The percentage of forensic coa's that are issued are a small percentage.

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Posted By: <b>shelly jaffe</b><p>Please correct me if I am wrong. I think what Cris was saying is that the only people that you would trust to authenticate your items are the Forensic experts that you hire. If I am wrong please correct me.<br />Since you wont direct an answer to me please direct it to Chris.<br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Bill Panagopulos</b><p>As I said, Rich, how you run your business is...your business. If that forensic authentication venture is no longer viable, I'd certainly take down that website so you don't continue to give the distinct impression of a conflict of interest. Wouldn't you agree? Besides the fact that, if someone responds to the website, what are you going to tell them?<br /><br />Know what I mean?

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Posted By: <b>Chris</b><p>Rich,<br /><br />My apologies, I assumed many of your items came with these bogus certs. Nonetheless, they are still forgeries I can buy on eBay for a fraction of the price you charge. How do you stay in business when I can by fake Mantle balls for $150 on eBay (unless the auction gets shut down by eBay and PSA) when you sell them for $695? Amazing.

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Posted By: <b>rich solis</b><p>Chris,<br />Thanks for the apology.<br />We can have the debat about forgeies until the cows come home.<br />If I didn't feel these items were real I would not sell them. No one has ever giving me an explaination as to why they are calling these items forgeries. All anyone says is there not real. Explain to me exactly why they are fakes.<br />I'm a reasonable person, if someone can convince me there fake I will remove them from my site. Just don't say there fakes prove it.<br /><br />Rich Solis

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Posted By: <b>Pscolgrafs</b><p>I have a few questions.<br /><br />1) Mr. Solis. You and Mr. Morales keep harping on the same HBO Fact. That being that there is a possibility that the items in question from the San Diego warehouse were perhaps authentic. Putting that aside, how about explaining how a man you described as "a premier name as far as authentication and one of few who actually had and still has legitimate credentials", manage to pass almost 500 items sent to him from Mr.Jaffe?<br /><br />2) I know it's quite difficult (like splitting atoms) but I will try and explain the Chaplin photo above. You see, this gentleman obtained a signed Chaplin item and he was told that it was a forgery by a respected auction house. Upon hearing that news, instead of putting it back into the collecting circulation, he ripped it up. Good for you sir.<br /><br />3) Mr. Morales, you state: "authentications based on scans are worthless" (which I disagree), but you have this thing called a "pre-scan". What in the world is that exactly?<br /><br />4) Will the cowardly aol user (who blocks replies) please send me random childlike nonsense. It will amuse me. <br /><br />Final note: Creating an exemplar collection is easy and shouldn't even be part of the debate. You (any authenticator) could have the world's best exemplar collection and still do a s--tty job...either on purpose, or because you don't know what you are doing. <br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Chris</b><p>That's all they are Rich.<br /><br />Like I said before, if it is too good to be true, it usually is. <br /><br />Submit your 94 World Series Mantle balls to any major auction house, aside from CC, and they will not touch them with a ten foot pole. Case closed.<br /><br />If I want to buy a fake Mantle balls like the ones you have, I will just go to CC and pick 'em up for $150-$200.<br /><br />You do not have a leg to stand on my friend.<br /><br /> <br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>FGN</b><p>Solis,<br /><br />Can you simply explain to us why certs from your buddy Donald (along with those of STAT, Morales or any other of Coach's flavor of the month authenticators) seem to doom an autoraph to sell for a mere fraction of its market value. Once that question is answered we can lock this thread up and call it a day. Somehow I think we got a ways to go before that happens.<br /><br />On the other hand I guess it allows you to continue your philanthropic approach to selling autographs. ('We chose to provide the best possible item at a price the general hobbyist can afford while insuring through forensic examiners the genuiness of the item to the best of their ability. Thats our choice as business owners.'). Just laughable.<br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>DD</b><p>Rich,<br />That Williams/Dimaggio signed piece on your site is a joke. Your site also indicates it comes with a COA from R&S collectibles. Who signs them? <br /><br />I recommend not having the enlarge feature for your photos; it clearly shows the obvious problems on each name.<br /><br />Perhaps a new forger is in order. I hear they do wonderful things these days with autopens.<br /><br /><br />The following is a brief work of fiction of a possible future.By the way, I'd be careful about those forgers; maybe one of them is smart enough that they learned how to forge your name as well. Imagine some document unknown to you being admitted into court. <br /><br />Rich - "Your honor, that is not my signature."<br /><br />Judge - "Well Mr. Solis, according to forensic document examiner, Rich Lemorass (rather anagramish type of guy), it is your signature, and you did order 3,000 Ted Williams signed photos on 10/13/2006. What the court fails to understand is why you indicated the blank photos were enclosed?

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Posted By: <b>Sean C</b><p>One quick question regarding this post<br /><br />==================================<br />rich solis<br />(Login sigexpert) question 1 February 17 2008, 11:47 PM <br /><br /><br />Bill, <br />This venture never got off the ground. one reason for that was Mr. Bradley health. As far as the business information being the same for both I felt that it was the best option to begen the new venture. But like I said It never got of the ground. <br />=================================== <br /><br />If the venture never got off the ground, then why do you have articles on your own site signed with your name, your store's name, and FSA's name?<br /><br /><a href="http://store.rs-sportscollectibles.com/derekjeter1.html" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://store.rs-sportscollectibles.com/derekjeter1.html</a><br /><br />From the bottom of the article:<br /><br />We hope that this will begin to help your understanding of the process required to complete a thorough evaluation of any signature. Please contact us with any questions you might have at info@1fsa.com or visit us on the web at www.ForensicSignatureAuthentications.com.<br /><br />Sincerely<br /><br />Rich Solis<br />R&S Sports Collectibles<br />Forensic Signature Authentications <br /><br /> <br />Copyright © 2006 – R&S Sports Collectibles. All Rights Reserved<br /><br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>SC</b><p>The thread still has some amusement value in a warped sense, like staring at the aftermath of a train wreck. <br /><br />The simplest fact remains that, the defenders of these "allegedly" fake autographs will not put their money where their mouth is. Until then, I have no respect for them.<br /><br />If they truly believed these items were real - buy them! I know a dozen people that will hand me a check for $50,000 to buy out the next CC auction with the promise of the same items being in Mastro et al in 90 days. Heck, you can probably cherry pick $5000 worth of stuff and get a 1000% return on it.<br /><br />There's no question that PSA/DNA, JSA, Lelands, Simon, and every other dealer/authenticator in this business has made mistakes, ranging from trivial to serious. If nothing else, the idea of seeing a major catalog auction with thousands of signatures authenticated in group lots, tells me that corners have been cut. No different than PSA, SGC, GAI, etc. The value of the reputation is in what level of confidence you have in their overall accuracy and integrity. If they are right 99% of the time, great. 80%...not good. 50%...I'm just as well using a dart board. <br /><br />For the authenticators out there, and I know this is a loaded question...have there been forgers good enough to make a perfect copy of a signature?

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Posted By: <b>Richard S. Simon</b><p>To answer SC's question as best as I can -"have there been forgers good enough to make a perfect copy of a signature?"<br />The skills of forgers have varied widely.<br />The "business of forgery" probably started with a few of the "very early" guys - Ron -----, Dave --------- (I have been told that these two are deceased but I am not 100% certain of that) and Danny Dubcek.<br />Their efforts were rather primitive. The first two I mentioned basically just tried to forge signature cuts, until Ron ----- found a cache of B&W Hall of Fame plaks in a Cooperstown gift shop. The light went on for him and he thought he had found an excellent vehicle for forgeries. He cleared about $100K on that deal. 3 dealers were duped into being the primary buyers, one of whom I believe has passed away. As far as I know these 3 forgers worked on the East Coast, and were the "birth parents" of the forged sports autograph business, thus my familiarity with them. The skills of these 3 were limited at best.<br />The forgery business evolved over the years, Shelly knows the history of that better than I do.<br />Many more skillful forgers have risen up out of the muck since.<br />It is really not possible to say that any of them have ever produced perfect signatures, but as you have stated we have all been fooled. Some of the forgers are much better than others. If anyone claims that they have been 100% right all the time, well they are just lying. All of those who buy, sell and authenticate have made mistakes.<br />The learning curve for authenticators and dealers never stops. We just try to stay ahead of the bad guys as best as we can.<br />-- <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.<br />Unknown author <br />--<br />We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.<br />No retreat baby, no surrender.<br />The Boss

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Posted By: <b>Bill Panagopulos</b><p>There are two very important points being missed in this discussion:<br /><br />1.) FOR THE FIRST TIME, RESPECTED AUTHENTICATORS ARE COMING UNDER LEGAL ATTACK BY THOSE WHO USE FORENSIC EXAMINERS<br /><br />Frank Caiazzo, is an expert in Beatles autographs with about thirty years of experience to his credit. Beatles - that's all he does - Beatles. No Doors, no Hendrix, no Stones, just Beatles. He's consulted with Christie's, Bonham's, and God knows how many other auction houses and collectors worldwide. His certificates add value to autographs - as a matter of fact, it's hard to sell Beatles material to knowledgeable collectors without a Caiazzo certificate. <br /><br />As we know, Caiazzo is being sued by "American Royal Arts Corp, a Foreign corporation" for condemning a signed Beatles album which they attempted to sell with...a Morales certificate. Their website makes no secret of their using Mr. Morales as their prime examiner. I'm not saying that the example in dispute was a forgery - but I certainly find it frightening to note that a legitimate, world-respected authenticator is being sued by a firm that relies on Mr. Morales' efforts. One more thing: the lawsuit, found at <br /><br />www.frankcaiazzolawsuit.com/?gclid=CPqy74yAzpECFQFflwodOWsZ4A<br /><br />asserts that it is "...unfair and deceptive for Caiazzo to represent...that he can make such conclusive findings or even conclude that an item is or is not authentic by simply looking at a scan image..." Well, that statement is fifty percent bullsh_t. I've sold 40,000 some odd lots of autographs over the years, and I've seen tens of thousands of scans of material offered for sale. The fact is: no, you cannot say something is AUTHENTIC from a scan, because no matter how "good" the signature looks, you still have to look for printed signatures, paper type, stops and starts, ink type, etc, etc. That's why "quick opinions" that something is AUTHENTIC aren't entirely reliable. <br /><br />HOWEVER! You absolutely, positively, without a doubt can detect a poorly executed fake from scan. Maybe that's what Caiazzo did?<br /><br />For the record, I have never paid Caiazzo a single penny, nor has he ever paid me a penny. <br /><br />2.) THE WHACK-A-MOLE THEOREM<br /><br />Ever play "Whack-a-Mole" - the carnival game where a mole pops up, you hit him on the head with a hammer, and as soon as you do, another one pops up? Well, the forensic examiner business is a lot like that. Seems that after "Operation Bullpen", Mr. Frangipani disappeared into the background and Mr. Morales came to the fore. If Mr. Morales decides to retire, there's likely a dozen board-certified forensic examiners waiting to take his place. If indeed Mr. Morales is signing off on a lot of forgeries (!), the only way to end that flood of forgeries is to find the forgers. And that, with just a little effort, is easy: Federal, state and local investigations, civil actions, class action lawsuits, the list goes on and on. The target should be the FORGERS, not the "authenticators"!!<br /><br />This should get very interesting...very quickly.

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Posted By: <b>shelly jaffe</b><p>I agree that the forgers should be caught. I do not agree with the idea its not the authenticators fault. They are the ones that make the forgery acceptable. The idea is to go after both. That way you kill the fish from the top down and the bottom up.

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Posted By: <b>Chris</b><p><a href="http://tinyurl.com/35p4e8" target="_new">http://tinyurl.com/35p4e8</a><br /><br /><br />VA seems to have a lot of forgeries, no? And, a little place in Jersey...<br /><br />Chris<br /><br /><br />edited to add: This link was too long so I made it into a tinyurl...the link was for an out of date auction, but I made the tinyurl anyway to keep from having to scroll left to right to read this very long thread. Thanks, Dan

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Posted By: <b>brian</b><p>-"have there been forgers good enough to make a perfect copy of a signature?"<br /><br />there is no such thing as a perfect copy because even the celebrity cannot make a perfect uniform copy of his own signature. Only autopens and stamps can do that. Even authentic signature examples of the same person will vary subtly, although there will always be several unwavering characteristics that can be used to earmark authenticity. However, when comparing authentic signatures from different decades or eras, authentic signatures by the same person can change so much over time that the characteristics are completely opposite from each other, such as a change in slant from left to right, etc. <br />

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Posted By: <b>shelly jaffe</b><p>One other thing comes to mind. Why a gallery owner who has been in business for over ten years has no idea of what a Beatles album goes for. If I am correct and please if I am not, correct me. I think an autographed album goes for around $50,000 to $75,000. I just don't understand how an owner of such a valuable piece would loose $36,000 plus dollars. If you guys have not read the law suite the selling price was $14,000. The other point I want to make is from what I have read there are only 20 to thirty Beatles autographed albums known to be out there. I wonder how many Morales and STAT have authenticated over the last five years. I would also be interested in how many the Gallery in Florida sold.

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Posted By: <b>DD</b><p>Rich Simon,<br />Ron ----- is dead. A sad case really. I knew him back in the days of the Golden Gate shows in NY. It was entertaining at first when he would show us how he could sign Pete Rose's name. I was 14 at the time, and had no idea about fake autographs. There were always ballplayers at these shows. Years later when you hear about him in the context of selling forgeries, it came as no surprise. He was always a heavy guy, and died young.<br /><br />Ron was a funny SOB. One time, he had a wrestler scheduled to appear, and the guy flaked on him. Ron took it in stride and told everyone the guy couldn't make it because there were no flights leaving from Parts Unknown that day. Good times, before he succumbed to the dark side.

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Posted By: <b>Bill Panagopulos</b><p>Shelly,<br /><br />Beatles signed albums (authentic) are generally selling at auction for around $75,000, up. Itsonlyrocknroll.com sold one about a year ago for, if I'm not mistaken, around $100,000+. So, if the gallery albums ARE authentic AND my auction and sales records are correct, $14,000 or so for a signed Beatles album is a flat out steal.<br /><br />Again, my information is that there have been less than ten U.S.-issued band-signed Beatles albums ever seen. According to offerings on their websites yesterday and today, just between Rock Star Gallery (11), American Royal Arts (9, possibly 10) and Starmarks (1), plus two more efforts on C.C. - that makes a total of 23 signed Beatles albums on the market that I was able to track down. Twenty-one of them have apparently been approved by Mr. Morales. Twenty-one. And if those 21 are indeed authentic, and they really are worth at least $75,000 each, then we're talking about $1.5 MILLION. Of course, if they all sold at the bargain price of say, $15,000 each, that's a measly $315,000. <br /><br />How many of these have been sold in the past year, five years, ten years? For how any dollars? God knows.<br /><br />How can so many of these ultra-rare albums come on the market so quickly? Did the Beatles lock themselves up in a room and sign for weeks on end, and this hoard was just discovered? What is the provenance for these rarities? <br /><br />As I told Rich last night, I'm certain there's going to be some questions asked, and it won't be just here.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Richard S. Simon</b><p>Don't you guys remember that famous Beatles appearance at the Armenian Church Card Show in Manhattan. Promoted by National Pastime?<br />The crowds surrounded the place and I can recall seeing hundreds of albums signed as my table was right near the signing platform.<br /><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>.<br><br>I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.<br />Unknown author <br />--<br />We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.<br />No retreat baby, no surrender.<br />The Boss

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Posted By: <b>DD</b><p>I just reviewed the material available on the Frank C. lawsuit web site. How does a company with ARA's supposed reputation end up spending lawyers fees with nothing to back them up except the word of Chris Morales? Out of everyone in the entire world that you could choose to authenticate a Beatles album, and you pick the guy that asks if Lennon is spelled with 2 "n's", or Lenin, as in Vladimir.<br /><br />The amount they are seeking is a joke. It's the standard value of a forged Beatles signed LP; somewhere in the $15,000 range, as opposed to the $75,000 if it was legitimate.<br /><br />I'm going to guess they may have given a cash advance to the consignor, and then they found out they were duped. I would definitely ask that question in court.<br /><br />By the way, the documents also make reference to the numbering scheme employed by Morales, and that he had certified approx 143 for them. How many did they submit to get a 143 to pass? I'll go out on a limb and say it was 142. #143 was a gift from Morales for all their business.<br /><br />Anyone have a Morales cert from CC? I would love to see how many he has authenticated for them.

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Posted By: <b>Richard S. Simon</b><p>All Frank has to do is get to discovery. That opens up the entire process.<br />All financial records of the gallery are open to him, including records of who sold the the album to the gallery, and I believe all their other purchases would come into play, and the authentication processes will also come into play.<br />The gallery is trying to intimidate and stifle Frank, plain and simple.<br />--<br /><br />I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.<br />Unknown author <br />--<br />We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.<br />No retreat baby, no surrender.<br />The Boss

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Posted By: <b>Mike</b><p>So if I send my Beatles signed album to any of the so called "good authenticators" (PSA/DNA, Spence , etc) would they be objective and really give it a chance or it is automatically rejected because not many exist?<br /><br />Also do you send it to them insured at $75,000-100,000 ?<br /><br />It seems a lot of pressure is on these guys ( If determined real - $ 75,000+, if determined fake - $ 0.<br /><br />Thanks Mike

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Posted By: <b>shelly jaffe</b><p>Of course they would be objective. It would be a great boost to hobby and to them if they found an authentic album.<br />CC auction this month. 2 Beatles albums from stat, one album sleeve from stat, one cut with all four names from morales, 1 photo by stat. That takes care of most of the albums they signed in there life time.

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Posted By: <b>Steve Murray</b><p>Let me see:<br /><br />A sells an item to B. B asks C for an opinion. C asks D for an opinion. D gives C an opinion. Without revealing the source C advises B of D's opinion (making it sound as though it is its own). B cancels the deal with A. A doesn't like D's opinion. A can sue D?<br /><br />Am I missing something here?

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Posted By: <b>DD</b><p>If the owners at Krause were smart, they would cancel, or sell SCD soon. It is an albatross around their necks, and drags down their legitimate publications. When it finally hits the fan, the fallout could impact them greatly. How does a company that is in the business of publishing magazines and books centering around the collectibles industry, knowingly (at this point, how could you not) allow advertisers whose majority of material is fake.<br /><br />If they do cancel, we get a 2fer, as Rosen will lose his venue as well.

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Posted By: <b>DD</b><p>I e-mailed links to this thread to the Chair and Secretary of the Questioned Documents department at the American Academy of Forensic Sciences. Morales indicates on his web site that he is a member. If he is, and they ask him, I am sure he will staunchly defend his skills and reputation. You never know until you try; maybe it could be the beginning of the end of his authenticating garbage.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Bill Panagopulos</b><p>DD - <br /><br />Please also forward them Mr. Morales' resume exactly as it currently appears on his website. I'm certain that if you claim membership to all of these organizations, you have to be able to back it up.

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Posted By: <b>Bill Panagopulos</b><p>Thinking it out a bit - what does homicide investigation, fingerprinting ability, etc. have to do with autograph authentication? They're better suited for a cop. Hell, I'm a member of the NRA (pistol marksman) and a volunteer firefighter, but that doesn't mean I can authenticate thousands of different signatures.<br /><br />And Mike - re: your question about Beatles authentications. <br /><br />I'm sure that Mr. Spence and PSA will concede that what they do best is - baseball. And Mr. Caiazzo will concede that he doesn't know a damned thing about baseball, but is certainly qualified to opine on Beatles autographs.<br /><br />So...you use the best authenticators in the field for the autograph you want to have examined. <br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Joann</b><p>Damn, Steve M. You just earned my undying admiration for being able to wade through this mess and post that simple summary of the latest drama!<br /><br />J

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Posted By: <b>shelly jaffe</b><p>This the statement from the Head of Department of Forensic Science at GWU<br />What is most important in all of this is the following statement.<br /><br />there is no indication from membership in the AAFS that Mr. Morales has specialized credentials what would justify his identification as a document examiner. I feel that this is where the truth comes out. Is he qualified to be an expert. If so why is he not rated so by the AAFS.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Robert</b><p>About Sports Collectors Digest/Krause/FE...the one thing I detest about this business is the fact that autograph sellers (reputable ones) are for the most part, a selfish bunch. Legitimate autograph sellers who use SCD don't care that their competition may not be honest and is selling items at a rather large discount. The reputable seller has an item up for $3,000 and his competition has one for $200 and that's okay with them? Why? It wouldn't be okay to me of I was that seller. <br /><br />In regards to authenticating, people for the most part are specialized and the good ones admit that they aren't capable of authenticating all genres. Caizzo probably doesn't know jack about Barry Bonds or Andrew Johnson. So how is it that all these one or two men team/s can authenticate anyone from Plato to Lewis Carroll to Sitting Bull to Badfinger to Todd Helton? <br /><br />I'm very limited, I am the first to admit it, but I know when someone is blowing smoke up my arse. Oh, as a child I learned two things. Don't accept gifts from strangers and if it's too good to be true, it probably is. <br /><br />Robert

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Posted By: <b>DD</b><p>i also e-mailed the publisher at Krause about this thread. No pun intended, but this whole thing seems like a house of cards. All we have to do is stumble upon the right button to push, and the whole thing will come crashing down. Forgers, Coach's corner, SCD, Morales, Solis, etc. Hopefully, someone in a position of authority can start the ball rolling.

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Posted By: <b>Bill Panagopulos</b><p>FOUR HUNDRED AND THIRTY-TWO POSTS! <br /><br />And more today than any other day! Anger, outrage, disgust, contempt, disbelief...all we need is a a Bastille to storm.<br /><br />And that's even before the press gets on it. Don't touch that dial.<br /><br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>It is a long thread at that. I don't deal in autographs but I hope this thread serves as a stepping stone to cleaning up this end of the hobby. And if it carries over to deep-sixing Coach's Corner, that would be even better.

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Posted By: <b>Richard S. Simon</b><p>Good work DD, outstanding work.<br /><br />--<br><br>I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.<br />Unknown author <br />--<br />We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.<br />No retreat baby, no surrender.<br />The Boss

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>The power of this forum is pretty amazing in that it influences the hobby beyond the scope of just baseball cards. I believe this forum is responsible for many changes in the auction house business as far as how they run their auctions and for the most part they have been responsive to suggestions.

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Posted By: <b>DD</b><p>Thanks Rich. I also e-mailed the tip line at UPI.

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Posted By: <b>DD</b><p>I just heard back from Dean Listle, the publisher of SCD. He indicated to me that he is going to read this thread.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>john</b><p>I was away this weekend and looks like I missed a lot. I disagree with the assumption that real Beatles albums sell for 75,000 and that anything in the 15,000 range would be fake. Lelands and Mastro have sold more than a few Beatles albums over the last 5 years. In my opinion, all were real and all sold in the 10,000 to 15,000 range. Do we think those many examples sold by Lelands and Mastro were fake due to the price? I do not. Now, of course these 800 CC examples are, in my opinion. Will everyone chime in here about the albums that have sold in the 15,000 range by Mastro and Lelands please. I have bid on many of them and finally purchased one.

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Posted By: <b>Bill Panagopulos</b><p>John,<br /><br />There is tremendous difference in price between Beatles-signed AMERICAN-issue covers and UK-issue covers. Obviously, the UK-issue covers are much more common, and $15K is still a good price. They now move at about $25K and up, in excellent condition, and the title is also very important in determining price. Remember, the distinction is that US covers are very much rarer. <br /><br />As far as I can tell, the albums offered by ARA are US-issue albums, offered there at, as I hear it, about $10K and up. <br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>DD</b><p>Bill,<br />That is such a fine distinction, that I would guess most everyone, other than people who follow the market very closely, would not be aware of that. This could include the forgers and forensically certified, but intellectually challenged authenticators. Any defense attorney worth their salt could dig up the sales records, and show how unlikely and improbable it would be for one company to possess more than all previous sales records combined.

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Posted By: <b>Mike</b><p>I agree I have seen a few sell in the $ 15000+ range. It may be wishful thinking if you have one certified by Frank Caiazzo, PSA etc and think it is worth $ 75,000. If I had one, I'd be stating a price like that also. What auctions have they sold in at that price ? Not the auctions I have checked out. <br /><br />I still can't believe only a couple of dozen albums were signed by the Beatles. Many fans stood outside Abbey Rd and Apple Corps in London and obtained autos like they do at baseball stadiums. Also I have heard of fans putting together auto albums and photos one at a time years after the group split. Therefore Paul's auto on the album could be 1967, Ringo 1980 etc.They also spent many hours in hotel rooms ( between girls) signing photos etc.for fan clubs, disabled persons, etc.<br /><br />Mike<br />

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Posted By: <b>Bill Panagopulos</b><p>It's US CAPITOL RECORDS covers, not British covers! By the time the Beatles got to the United States, you couldn't get near them. Itsonlyrocknroll.com sold one American cover, the last one sold, for $115,000, a little over a year ago. Call them and ask. Before that, a private sale went down for $85,000 four years ago, a Beatles '65 cover. <br /><br />US vs. BRITISH. That's the difference, boys 'n' girls.

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Posted By: <b>shelly jaffe</b><p>John, I see you have an opinion on the Beatles albums. How about your opinion on the Solis autographs. I know you told Bill what you thought of his.

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Posted By: <b>Bill Panagopulos</b><p>And DD - <br /><br />These forgers are not rocket scientists. Otherwise, they would have found a way to earn an honest living a long time ago.<br /><br />The issue is NOT the number of extant Beatles signed albums. The issue is forgery, and incompetent authenticators, and impossible amounts of exceedingly rare autographs, and auction houses that don't react to legitimate questions, and websites with no contact information, and baseless lawsuits, and false allegations made against honest dealers, and crooked double dealers lining their pockets at the expense of naive novice collectors, and...<br /><br />BTW - I just checked artfact.com. Only TWO beatles signed albums have been sold by Christie's, Sotheby's, Bonham's and other such prestigious auction houses in the past seven years. Both were British albums, one signed on the back brought $41,000, the other signed on the front (signatures light)brought $18,000 (2005). Although I respect Mastro and Lelands, I'd really like to know who, if anyone, authenticated those albums.

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Posted By: <b>DD</b><p>Where are Messrs. Morales and Solis this fine President's Day? Perhaps opening a forensic authentication lab in a non-extradition country? I hear Paraguay is quite lovely this time of year, and a real collectibles hotbed.

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Posted By: <b>Richard S. Simon</b><p><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1203379821.JPG"><br><br><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1203379843.JPG"><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1203379866.JPG"><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1203379959.JPG">

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Posted By: <b>DD</b><p>I can see it now. One of baseball's greats is recovering from transplant surgery. He can spend his time with his family, his girlfriend, Whitey and Yogi, etc., or, sign these 10,000 baseballs, specially made for a World Series that didn't take place. They took the game he played, and cancelled the greatest show of the year. He can sign those, or do something else, like, oh I don't know. FREAKIN anything.<br /><br />Seriously, the little that I know tells me the likelihood of that ball, or any 94 series ball being signed by Mantle very unlikely, unless Tom Catal owns it.<br />

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Posted By: <b>john</b><p>Shelly-Surely some problems with a loy of this guys stuff but many examples are not from the guy we discussed, in my opinion. Looks like a few different sources.