Post-National surprise

[Jantz]

So I'm at the National this year and walking around the floor looking at all the selection of cards hoping to find a few for my collection. I stopped at a dealer's table whom I've bought from in the past. Right away I notice an interesting T206 of Carrigan. The dealer had a price tag of $16 on it. I set the card off to the side and continued to look at his other T206s. Not finding anything else, I paid the dealer and went on my way. (left scan)

Fast forward to Sunday night. I decided to catch up on some reading I've been wanting to do on T206Resource. I started reading the article about the 2012 REA auction and imagine my surprise when what do I see...the same Carrigan that I bought at the National. (right scan)

Apparently this T206 had been part of a large lot sold by REA earlier this year which included a grouping of hand-cut T206s.

Anyway, it was a pleasant surprise for me and I thought other board members might like to hear the story. Wonder what happened to the other hand-cut T206s?

I got to say though, it was the best $16 I've spent in awhile.


Jantz

[atx840]

Great score Jantz!

A boardmember owns the Milan, picked it up at the National as well.

[christopher.herman]

Originally Posted by Jantz

Apparently this T206 had been part of a large lot sold by REA earlier this year which included a grouping of hand-cut T206s.

Is the inference (from REA or otherwise) that these cards were "hand cut" from an original T206 sheet? If so, how does one know that it just wasn't trimmed after the factory cut? And then, do they command a premium if verified?
Thanks,
Christopher.

[atx840]

Last year REA auctioned off a handcut Plank and a few other "scrap" cards from a find. REA likely assumed these were cut from two sheets(Piedmont 150 & 350) along with the Plank (at the time all Plank Piedmont 150s were handcut)

http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/...x?itemid=18490



The Lake example from the 2012 REA auction has similar markings on the back as the previous years handcut lot (Manning), same find?, same consigner? It's likely REA made a similar assumption on being handcut from a sheet. Secondly a few of the cards show signs of missing an ink layer which along with being handcut would suggest it is a printers scrap.

http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/.../2012/159.html

[4815162342]

Nice score Jantz!

[ullmandds]

hmmm...it would seem to me that grouping a blank backed t206 with a group of hand cut(ie. trimmed) t206's would be a nice way to create value?!

[packs]

All cards were cut from sheets. I don't see the value in the cards other than the blank backed card.

[ullmandds]

I agree...aside from color errors(missing, etc), printing hash marks, etc which may potentially lead to a determination of printers scrap...in my opinion a trimmed card is a trimmed card...no matter if it was trimmed by a pair of scissors 100 yrs ago...or yesterday.

I don't see how this can be differentiated once a card is standing alone?

I'm a little surprised that some of these have been sold in the past based on assumptions?

[wonkaticket]

Very cool card, congrats!

[teetwoohsix]

Hey Jantz-

Great score !!! And I may be wrong, but it almost looks like that would've been the edge of the sheet- because there is so much border and we don't see (on the back) a miscut showing evidence of the card next to it. Awesome !!! Beautiful pick up !!!

Sincerely, Clayton

[ullmandds]

I certainly don't mean to downplay your acquisition...congrats! I just still don't understand how one tells the difference between a poorly cut(trimmed) t206...and a poorly cut(trimmed) scrap?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I certainly don't mean to downplay your acquisition...congrats! I just still don't understand how one tells the difference between a poorly cut(trimmed) t206...and a poorly cut(trimmed) scrap?

That's easy...If I am .....

Selling = Scrap

Buying = Trimmed




.

[Bocabirdman]

Originally Posted by Leon

That's easy...If I am .....

Selling = Scrap

Buying = Trimmed




.

Ah...the old.... "I buy junk and sell antiques" mindset....

[Gradedcardman]

Jantz,

Very cool card. I also spent some time with this dealer. I think you went over to him right after I did. I bought the Oakes Blank Back from him. It was a great surprise to have him pull it out and offer it to me. The highlight of the afternoon.

[travrosty]

just take an exacto knife and make it into an 8. worked for wagner. or it can be a hand cut 8.

[Bocabirdman]

Originally Posted by travrosty

just take an exacto knife and make it into an 8. worked for wagner. or it can be a hand cut 8.

A figure-eight?

[mrvster]

JANTZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SWEET ASS SCORE!!!

this is a "tweener" scrap as i term them........it's "scrap" by association....i have a few like this....your card can be tracked down to that lot and is having evidence of a printer scrap(Clayton's keen observations)....but, unfortunately this falls into the "grey" area scrap.....i can tell you it's a printer scrap, but "beauty will be in the eye of the beholder" on this one....


In other words:

there are some real tip offs it's scrap:

slightly out of register/ grossly wide rt. border/ part of magenta from next card on right border/ was grouped with other scrap.....

this will only get "A" designation on the flip from sgc...


IF:

it was oversized hand cut/missing color and any of the other obvious signs it would be a no brainer...


the card you have i know is scrap, but many will think opposite....

YOU GOT A CARD THAT IS AWESOME JANTZ!!!!$16.00 was a super super investment!!

You are a collector that deserves a score like this....


btw...if u ever want to let go, id be interested


CONGRATS JANTZ!!

[Jantz]

Thanks everyone for your comments.

Some good questions have been asked. I think maybe I should have posted a back scan in my initial post.

Why do I think this card was cut this way at the factory and not post-factory? I guess my thought process is this. Card doctors/trimming artists would make use of every resource possible to make money. Obviously Carrigan is not a high profile player and wouldn't bring a lot of money, especially with a common back, until you consider how grading has changed this hobby. A T206 of Carrigan graded a 7 or higher would bring enough money to catch a card doctor's attention.

Other factors are the size of the card and the crease. Trimming would reduce any card's size. This card is correct in width by T206 standards and the length is long or oversized. If this T206 had a American Beauty back then I could see why the left border would be trimmed so close to the red background, but its a Piedmont. So why would anyone hack that much of the border off.

As far as the crease, I can only assume card doctors wouldn't waste their time on a creased card. Imagine if the 5-card T206 strip with Wagner didn't have any creases in it. That strip would have probably been chopped up years ago.

Clayton - Good point my friend! The REA scans don't show the back of the card well enough though. If you look at the back scan I posted, there is part of another back showing on the upper left side.


Jantz

[teetwoohsix]

Hi Jantz-

Thanks, I see it now and stand corrected.

You really scored on this card Jantz, very cool. Thanks for posting it !!! No doubt looks hand cut/printers scrap to me....not a modern day "trim job"

Sincerely, Clayton

P.S. Johnny !! How's it going ? Hope all is well !!!

[mrvster]

great observations guys!!!jantz, love you score!!

clayton, call me bro!!

[ruth-gehrig]

That's cool either way.