Just Look At What the Roaches Have Now

[RichardSimon]

Arguably the most valuable known autograph in all of collecting and they got it.
Amazing that a consignor would consign this to a sports auction house.
Does not even have a COA. Guess they had trouble coming up with exemplars from 1776.

http://www.myccsa.com/Lot/212/button...signature.aspx

[keithsky]

amasing richard. one thing that gets me is i have seen the past couple months a few people in pennsylvania getting busted by the feds for selling fake stuff whatever it may be but coachs corner seems to be cruising along. and they are also from pennsylvania so why are the feds not doing anything with them. i know this gets brought up alot but it just baffles me they still continue to operate. since the feds are in the right state busting other people drive over to c.c and bust them. i looked at there lot 1 at the 1919 white sox ball signed by the whole team. my god make it stop.

[Exhibitman]

Quarter-million dollar artworks, dual-signed Washington-Jefferson pieces, lovely Cobb ball in blue ballpoint ink, a 1939 baseball FDC signed by all of the HOFer inductees that day,a Beatles Abbey Road signed by the Beatles...they have it all. All the time. Go figure...

[timzcardz]

You have to give them credit for their write-ups though. They are entertaining!

. . . the long deceased Revolutionary War Vet.

I guess that's so as to not get confused with the Revolutionary War Vets that are not long deceased.

[barrysloate]

At least you can see it from 11 feet away. That's always important to me when I purchase an autograph.

[mr2686]

I bet if you wait till next auction you can get one that can be seen from "across the room"

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

At least you can see it from 11 feet away. That's always important to me when I purchase an autograph.

I'm sure this is because the autograph was signed in Revolutionary War era Sharpie pen.....

[3and2]

too bad their camera can't get a clear shot from a foot away

[canjond]

Richard - aside from the DOI, how many examples are known to exist? I remember reading at one point that there are three original letters bearing a signature. Are you aware of anything else?

[Vintagedegu]

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[canjond]

Thanks for posting that article. Guess this helps answer my question: "According to Sotheby's, of the 51 known Gwinnetts, this is one of just eight from the year 1776 and the closest of all to July 4th. "

[Vintagedegu]

-

[RichardSimon]

I don't know how many are known to exist. He was shot and killed in a duel just 9 months after signing the Declaration.
Amazing how the Roaches keep turning up such amazing stuff.
--

[mr2686]

A little known fact is that 2 months before he was killed in that duel, he and the other declaration signers did a show with Roaches Corner (then known just as The Roaches). Many items were signed, including several Betsy Ross prototype flags, deer skins and game used muskets. To make sure everything was legit, they used the law office of Dewey, Cheatum and Howe and everything was authenticated by Benedict Morales.

[GrayGhost]

Well, that DOI signing is sold out, I think. Some custom signed items can still be made up .. I mean available..haha, if you contact the sewer rats at the Corner.

Anyways, thanks for someone starting a new Roach's thread, as Ive had major personal issues lately, and lost track of time.

Now, HOW IN HEAVEN CAN THEY EXPECT ANYONE WITH HALF A BRAIN TO BELIEVE THIS IS REAL? COME ON

http://www.myccsa.com/Lot/212/1919-2...-baseball.aspx

To this next one, a big YEAH RIGHT. looks like it was just done its so bold and so fake:

http://www.myccsa.com/Lot/212/lou-ge...-baseball.aspx

When you click this one on, the picture actually is SMALLER. Nice way to cover up another pathetic disgrace

http://www.myccsa.com/Lot/212/george...ument-cut.aspx

Oh, and check out lot 30. One of the rarest and most highly sought after signatures of the 20th century, and they have TWO in the first 30 lots. I mean, REA, Hunts, Legendary, Lelands, and all the other big auctions, why bother, you can NEVER EVER compete with the pipeline that the Corner has (Mind you, Im not saying whats inside the pipes...)

Plus, the awful Ruth/Gehrig bat, a solo Gehrig Bat, another in the assembly line of fake Beatles signed albums and more and I haven't even left page one

[danc]

Single examples of Gwinnett’s autograph have been sold for as much as $150,000. Its extraordinarily high value is a result of a combination of the desire by many top collectors to acquire a complete set of autographs by all 56 signers of the U.S. Declaration of Independence, and the extreme rarity of the Gwinnett signature (there are less than 30 known extant examples, since Gwinnett was fairly obscure prior to signing the Declaration and died shortly afterwards).His autograph today is valued at around $250,000.

[RichardSimon]

Let us guess the final price of this beauty.
I say $420 for an autograph that is valued at $150,000.
Way to go Lee.
BTW - to repeat myself, where is the COA on this one?
I have reference books, one by Hamilton, one by Rawlins, with exemplars.

[tinkereversandme]

Could it be that Ted and Chris wouldn't even pass this?

Do these guys desire to get caught?

They have now sold virtually every difficult, rare of a kind and items that the hobby doesn't believe exists and there is only one left.

Williams Shakespeare.

If you are selling $250,000 autographs now, may as well sell one that sells for over a $1 Million, right?

My guess $850 on the Gwinett.

Regards,

Larry

[gnaz01]

Originally Posted by tinkereversandme

Could it be that Ted and Chris wouldn't even pass this?

Do these guys desire to get caught?

They have now sold virtually every difficult, rare of a kind and items that the hobby doesn't believe exists and there is only one left.

Williams Shakespeare.

If you are selling $250,000 autographs now, may as well sell one that sells for over a $1 Million, right?

My guess $850 on the Gwinett.

Regards,

Larry

Oh, I feel they can "shill" this up to well over $1,000. I mean the only thing missing is that it is "OK'd by Lee"

[Vintagedegu]

-

[mr2686]

I think I'm going to drip and splash a bunch of paint on a canvas and see if the roaches can get Chris or Ted to authenticate it as Jackson Pollock. Hmmm, could be a great way to support my memorabilia habit.

[GrayGhost]

Gwinett. Final price. 885.00, a perfect companion to the Hancock, Jefferson and other DOI signers they have had.

Far as a Shakespeare autograph, I am on the lookout for the following three sigs:

Pontius Pilate..yeah, just for historical reasons
King Herod...same thing
Attila the Hun..

I mean, geez, there can't be a lot of those three around, but Im sure the Coach's crapper has the supply.

[Rickyy]

I heard that the signature of OGG the first cro magnon man carved on an actual game used hunting speer is coming soon. To top it off...it was also additionally autographed years later by Josh Gibson and Babe Ruth...can't wait!

[tinkereversandme]

I think it comes down to the characters involved here. How brazen are these guys? They have the mindset that they will be able to do this forever and when you have the gaul to throw up a Button Gwinett (among other things), you have to be openly mocking the lack of prescence in the judicial system for this kind of crime. Can you imagine how many returns and complaints they must deal with? After all, if I was stupid and I bought something over there and placed it on eBay or JSA or PSA/DNA and it was pulled or failed, I would want answers and my money back. Of course they will say that these are all opinions, Morales and Taylor are as good as them and they have a vendetta against us, but they must deal with this kind of stuff on a daily basis.

Regards,

Larry

[barrysloate]

Larry- I agree with you and also believe they get away with this because all their lots have COA's. Even among respected autograph authenticators, there can be a reasonable difference of opinion. So if someone challenges one of their certs, they can simply say I guess we have a difference of opinion. And maybe they do it every time.

[Rickyy]

Do they issue COA on moral conscience?

[RichardSimon]

Gwinnett --- 3 bids, $315 high bid so far. That makes three people who have been off their medication. Not too bad really. Not much time left in the auction. My final price prediction might be the closest.

[Gary Dunaier]

Originally Posted by tinkereversandme

They have now sold virtually every difficult, rare of a kind and items that the hobby doesn't believe exists and there is only one left.

Williams Shakespeare.

If you are selling $250,000 autographs now, may as well sell one that sells for over a $1 Million, right?

Is that for a flat item or on a ball?

[Bilko G]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Gwinnett --- 3 bids, $315 high bid so far. That makes three people who have been off their medication. Not too bad really.

[sports-rings]

when we see what these items sell for, would you venture to guess if they are always sold, or do you think the lots contain shell bidding too? If it's shell bidding, perhaps they don't steal as much money as we think they do?

they seem to have the "perfect" system to ripp people off. Perhaps they don't let outsiders "in" and that's why they have never been shut down. Remember in operation bullpen how the FBI supplied 8x10's and had them signed? My thinking is that shell bidding would expose them to the authorities if their records were ever searched.

[RichardSimon]

I would think shill bidding is a regular part of their operation.
When they get stuck with an item they just put it up again.
How many times have we seen the same item being auctioned off at the Roaches?
I don't think they let outsiders in either. What outsider would want to sell a legit item with the Roaches and get 10% of what it is worth, when there are so many auction houses in the hobby.
They have their regular sellers and we all know what they do.

[keithsky]

to bad a disgruntled employee won't come forward with how there operation is run, good or bad

[sports-rings]

what I meant by "outsiders" is a forger or other morally corrupt people who could supply them with fakes or whatever else these criminals need.

[RichardSimon]

Looks like Ghost wins with his prognostication of $885.
The Gwinnett sold for $1000 with 10 bids. That could mean 1 bidder bid against himself 10 times, it could mean 10 bidders, it could mean multiple bidders bidding more than once. Whatever it means, some people need to go back on their meds.

Unless it was a shill winning this, there actually is some idiot out there in the world now who thinks he has a $250,000 autograph in his collection.

[Fuddjcal]

should be on e-bay anyday now with a buy it now for $100,000.

When you write the guy, to tell him it's a forgery....he will just say "he got it signed in person", like they all do

[danc]

I just checked out the prices...made a top 10. Enjoy!

1) Button Gwinnett hand signed cut signature. $1000
2) Christy Mathewson hand signed "Morales" certified mini baseball bat! $463
3) John Clarkson single signed "Morales" certified small sized baseball! $216 (yet...another)
4) Lou Gehrig Autographed/Certified Vintage Baseball Pants. $232
5) Cap Anson hand signed "TTA" certified vintage autograph book page! $108
6) Babe Ruth hand signed "TTA" certified small leather baseball glove! $463
7) Joe Jackson hand signed "TTA" certified autograph book page! $926
8) Christy Mathewson hand signed "Morales" certified $1.00 bill! $208
9) Lou Gehrig single signed "Morales" certified rare "full name" baseball! $1155
10) Babe Ruth hand signed "Morales" certified & inscribed mini baseball bat! $683 (this one...Babe has inscribed it Home Run King).

For $5400, you could have had all of the above!

I do have a favorite...

http://www.myccsa.com/Lot/212/pablo-...gh-sketch.aspx

DanC

[GKreindler]

That 'Picasso' sketch is just downright mean-spirited.

[FUBAR]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

I don't know how many are known to exist. He was shot and killed in a duel just 9 months after signing the Declaration.
Amazing how the Roaches keep turning up such amazing stuff.
--

Richard, it's obvious to me, they just use their time machine to go back and personally get these things autographed, why is that so hard for you to understand and respect?

[FUBAR]

ok i am not a ball expert, but the 1919 white sox baseball. The blue and red threaded balls.. I was told on here before they didn't produce those balls until 1926.. is that correct?

[scooter729]

I'd love if someone could turn up one of these "signed" items having been sold on eBay a month or so prior to the Roaches having it, only unsigned at the time.

For instance, like the Mathewson $1 bill - it's got a serial number and all. Wouldn't THAT be some nice evidence to see it sold two months ago unsigned? Then you check the buyer's track record and buying history, and the walls start falling.

(And yes, I DID check already for the serial number on the Mathewson bill - no luck. But they're smarter than that, I guess.)

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by danc

I just checked out the prices...made a top 10. Enjoy!

1) Button Gwinnett hand signed cut signature. $1000
2) Christy Mathewson hand signed "Morales" certified mini baseball bat! $463
3) John Clarkson single signed "Morales" certified small sized baseball! $216 (yet...another)
4) Lou Gehrig Autographed/Certified Vintage Baseball Pants. $232
5) Cap Anson hand signed "TTA" certified vintage autograph book page! $108
6) Babe Ruth hand signed "TTA" certified small leather baseball glove! $463
7) Joe Jackson hand signed "TTA" certified autograph book page! $926
8) Christy Mathewson hand signed "Morales" certified $1.00 bill! $208
9) Lou Gehrig single signed "Morales" certified rare "full name" baseball! $1155
10) Babe Ruth hand signed "Morales" certified & inscribed mini baseball bat! $683 (this one...Babe has inscribed it Home Run King).

For $5400, you could have had all of the above!

I do have a favorite...

http://www.myccsa.com/Lot/212/pablo-...gh-sketch.aspx

DanC

The thing that I find most laughable, is that those Items that NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN HAVE A TTA Certification?????

Hasnt' anybody else ever looked at those items in all these years? How can a crooked F from STAT, only in business for a year or less under TTA, be the only autheticator to look at that pieces of garbage?

Anyway, It is rather sickening that this has been allowed to go on for so long. It is a complete mockery of the justice system and the fact that this BS has not been stopped is just disgusting for hobby. MY QUESTION IS, WHO IS GOING TO BRING THESE GUYS TO JUSTICE FOR THE MILLIONS upon MILLIONS THEY HAVE SCAMMED & STOLEN FROM PEOPLE? IS ANYBODY FROM THE FEDERAL GOV'T LISTENING?

[Exhibitman]

It is really just sad. Every one of the sales could be viewed as another collector who will be turned off to the hobby when he finds out the facts.

Or just proof that Darwin had a point...Nature really does weed out the nimrods, in so many ways.

[tinkereversandme]

I was reading autographalert.com just now (thanks Dave for pointing me in the direction of a site I usually enjoy ignoring because it's motive as a rival authenticator merely exists to promote itself, it seems) and I plucked from the bottom of the update the following:

Something is being done for the health of the autograph hobby and it is suggested if you have had a bad experience in the past with one of the high profile autograph authenticating companies or when you have a bad experience in the future that you sit down, do your part and write a letter explaining how you have been victimized to:

Office of Director, Robert S. Mueller, III
Federal Bureau of Investigation
935 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW
Washington, DC 20535-0001

For your info two Special Agents with the F.B.I. are also actively working on autograph fraud and they are well aware of 3rd party autograph authentication.

Take your complaint/observations one step further, send a copy of your complaint to:

Eric H. Holder, Jr.
Attorney General of the United States
U.S. Department of Justice
950 Pennsylvania Ave. NW
Washington, DC 20530-0001[/B]

So maybe someone cares out there. Complaining on this board is fine and fun and all (the post about what should Coach's sell next was roll around the floor funny), but maybe a good old fashion letter campaign is the way to go here.

Regards,

L